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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:55 am 
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Personally, (obviously I'm late), I'm concerned about Mason.

Right now he's starting off like he did in his last year in Nashville, after he stole the job from Voukun.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:07 am 
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Battra wrote:
Personally, (obviously I'm late), I'm concerned about Mason.

Right now he's starting off like he did in his last year in Nashville, after he stole the job from Voukun.

How do you figure??? And BTW, last night's game doesn't count. Mason kept that game managable, to the best of his ability until shit fell apart late in the 2nd. Other than that, he's GAA has been pretty solid, we just weren't able to score any goals against ATL or LA. The PHX game was a complete defensive breakdown that ended with a BS goal that shouldn't have ever counted in the first place.

It's WAY to early to be pressing any panic button or drawing comparisons between his performances. He was piss poor when he took over in Nashville. I wouldn't categorize him as piss poor this year by any means.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:08 am 
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Battra wrote:
Personally, (obviously I'm late), I'm concerned about Mason.

Right now he's starting off like he did in his last year in Nashville, after he stole the job from Voukun.


What?


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:30 am 
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Ok...Ok...

I don't think 3.20 GAA is good. So far, I'm hearing the same things we've heard about goalies in the past that didn't stick...the team played poorly in front of him...those goals weren't his fault...

This is precisely what I was worried about going into this season...Would Chris Mason repeat last year, or would he repeat the year previous?


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:33 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
Personally, (obviously I'm late), I'm concerned about Mason.

Right now he's starting off like he did in his last year in Nashville, after he stole the job from Voukun.


What?


The year Chris Mason stole the job from Voukun:
40 1 4 2342 93 5 5 2.38 24 11 4 1151 0.925
Nice.

The year after:
51 1 0 2692 130 5 4 2.90 18 22 6 1148 0.898

Notice a drop in performance there?

The year Chris Mason stole the job from Legace:
57 1 0 3215 129 7 6 2.41 27 21 7 1415 0.916

This year:
5 0 0 281 15 1 0 3.20 1 3 1 135 0.900

Early I know...but this is what happened in Nashville 2 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:33 am 
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Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:36 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 am 
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Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:43 am 
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Conklin would have won this game.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:50 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


Yes I have watched games. I have been to games, thank you.

I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?

I have concerns that he's going to falter, like he did in Nashville, and those concerns are being shown in the results.

Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:58 am 
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Battra wrote:
Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


Wow.

Conklin has played TWO full games. Two wins.

Both he and Mason had shaky 1st periods in the Swedish games, but came out with wins.

Conklin’s other win (and only other full game) was against the Ducks and the Blues played great. I think most would argue that was the performance of the Blues this year.

Outside of the Detroit start, Mason has been solid in every game and kept the games a lot closer than they should have been, despite some poor play or poor offensive production by the Blues.

How in the hell you can make a case that Mason’s play is “a concern” blows me away.

That’s not taking anything from Conks, he has been good. I hope continues to play well. But right now, Mason has given the team no reason to demote him.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:02 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


Wow.

Conklin has played TWO full games. Two wins.

Both he and Mason had shaky 1st periods in the Swedish games, but came out with wins.

Conklin’s other win (and only other full game) was in a game against the Ducks that the Blues played great. I think most would argue that was the performance of the Blues this year.

Outside of the Detroit start, Mason has been solid in every game and kept the games a lot closer than they should have been, despite some poor play or poor offensive production by the Blues.

How in the hell you can make a case that Mason’s play is “a concern” blows me away.

That’s not taking anything from Conks, he has been good. I hope continues to play well. But right now, Mason has given the team no reason to demote him.



:plusplus:


I was one who had concerns about Mason comming into the season (didn't know if he coudl do it again), but he's been pretty solid this season IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:04 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


Wow.

Conklin has played TWO full games. Two wins.

Both he and Mason had shaky 1st periods in the Swedish games, but came out with wins.

Conklin’s other win (and only other full game) was against the Ducks and the Blues played great. I think most would argue that was the performance of the Blues this year.

Outside of the Detroit start, Mason has been solid in every game and kept the games a lot closer than they should have been, despite some poor play or poor offensive production by the Blues.

How in the hell you can make a case that Mason’s play is “a concern” blows me away.

That’s not taking anything from Conks, he has been good. I hope continues to play well. But right now, Mason has given the team no reason to demote him.


You seem to have skipped over why I was dismissive. I see.

I seem to be hearing the same things that were said about Manny Legace last year...oh the team wasn't playing as well in front of him...etc.

Oh the team played so much better in front of Conks.

Does this not sound familiar to you?

(This has been coming up over and over for the last oh...well when did the lock out end?)

If you think 1-3-1 is not a concern, fine. I do.

1-3-1...vs 2-0.

Hmm.

You said the blues play poorly in front of Mason, but they play better in front of Conks.

Right?


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:09 am 
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Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


Yes I have watched games. I have been to games, thank you.

I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?

I have concerns that he's going to falter, like he did in Nashville, and those concerns are being shown in the results.

Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


The problem is you seem to be basing your opinion on stats alone...and stats rarely tell the whole story, especially with goaltending.
With goalies, their stats can be heavily influenced by the play of the team around them.

Therefore, actually analyzing his play instead of just looking at the stats, would give you a better idea of how well Mason has played. Hence the "common sense" comment.

I'm not sure how actually analyzing Mason's play, instead of focusing solely on stats, can be criticized. It's the best way to evaluate any player.

So, you say you have watched the games...if so, then would you say he is a victim of the way the team is playing around him, or is he actually playing as bad as his stats are saying right now?

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:09 am 
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Battra wrote:
You seem to have skipped over why I was dismissive. I see.


I really didn't think it was worth arguing with you on petty comments like this...

Battra wrote:
I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?


...but if you want me to, I would be glad to do so.

There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion, but I also think there comes a time when it is obvious that a person’s opinion is pretty ignorant based on the actual games themselves.

I’m sure if you took a poll, an overwhelmingly majority would find your opinion…excuse the colorfulness…pretty f-ing stupid.


Last edited by SIU LAW on Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:11 am 
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Battra wrote:
1-3-1...vs 2-0.

Hmm.

You said the blues play poorly in front of Mason, but they play better in front of Conks.

Right?


Are you really saying that the Blues have played poorly because of the goalie that was or was not in front of them for each particular game?

Right now you are trying to assign trends based on what is currently coincidence. This is where "common sense" comes in.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:11 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
But right now, Mason has given the team no reason to demote him.

:plusplus: Mason wasn't pulled last night due to the fact he was playing bad. It was purely a coaching tactic to try and change the motivation of the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:13 am 
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Battra wrote:
Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


The Blues played a GREAT game vs. the Ducks. They soundly beat them up and down the rink and really limited their good scoring chances.
Conklin was good in the game, but the Blues played well in front of him. He didn't have to steal the game for an sloppy Blues team that night.

Are you sure you have been watching these games? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:15 am 
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Also, do I sense a little crying on how Manny was done wrong by the Blues?

Mason didn’t steal the job. Manny was given every opportunity to succeed and to pull his head out of his ass, and he was clearly the victim of his own BS and bad play.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:33 am 
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cprice12 wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


Yes I have watched games. I have been to games, thank you.

I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?

I have concerns that he's going to falter, like he did in Nashville, and those concerns are being shown in the results.

Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


The problem is you seem to be basing your opinion on stats alone...and stats rarely tell the whole story, especially with goaltending.
With goalies, their stats can be heavily influenced by the play of the team around them.

Therefore, actually analyzing his play instead of just looking at the stats, would give you a better idea of how well Mason has played. Hence the "common sense" comment.

I'm not sure how actually analyzing Mason's play, instead of focusing solely on stats, can be criticized. It's the best way to evaluate any player.

So, you say you have watched the games...if so, then would you say he is a victim of the way the team is playing around him, or is he actually playing as bad as his stats are saying right now?



Again, I am NOT basing it on the stats alone...

I'm saying the proof is in the results.

I think Mason's giving up softies.


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