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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:12 am 
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section319 wrote:
Why are you arguing with him? He comes here from the asylum and everyone argues with him, its pointless.


I respect your wisdom.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:16 am 
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SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
Once again, if you want give and take on this topic, that's fine, but you skipped several of my posts.

That's fair I think.

Tell ya what..we'll skip all the ones you ignored...and go back to the one where you attempted to answer...explaining by saying the blues played poorly.

Why is it a coincidence. Pretend I'm not as smart as you, and explain it. Start from the ground up.

Or, just tell me that it's simply your opinion, that'd be fine...but think you'd have to stop purporting it as fact.



No thanks. Not worth my time to attempt to prove something that everyone, excepts you, seems to understand. Also, I just noticed the quoted portions below.

I’m sure you going to crow and declare that I cannot back things up. But I am guessing you will be in the extreme minority with that opinion.

cprice12 wrote:
The Blues played a GREAT game vs. the Ducks. They soundly beat them up and down the rink and really limited their good scoring chances.
Conklin was good in the game, but the Blues played well in front of him. He didn't have to steal the game for an sloppy Blues team that night.


Battra wrote:
That one, I didn't see.


This concludes the need to continue this.



??? I'm a bit confused on your point.

You said the Blues played well.

I never said Conklin stole the game.

I took yours and Cprice's opinion on that game.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:16 am 
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Bring Back Curtis Sanford!

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:36 am 
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ohio BLUES wrote:
Bring Back Curtis Sanford!

Battra

:lol:

If you guys keep arguing with this goober we'll have to rebrand this place The Asylum II. The only thing this discussion does is make me appreciate the sanctuary of sanity we have here. 99% of the time that is....


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:44 am 
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strocklen083 wrote:
ohio BLUES wrote:
Bring Back Curtis Sanford!

Battra

:lol:

If you guys keep arguing with this goober we'll have to rebrand this place The Asylum II. The only thing this discussion does is make me appreciate the sanctuary of sanity we have here. 99% of the time that is....



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You can't argue with a guy who has three game worn Curtis Sanford jersey's..

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:02 pm 
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section319 wrote:
strocklen083 wrote:
ohio BLUES wrote:
Bring Back Curtis Sanford!

Battra

:lol:

If you guys keep arguing with this goober we'll have to rebrand this place The Asylum II. The only thing this discussion does is make me appreciate the sanctuary of sanity we have here. 99% of the time that is....



++

You can't argue with a guy who has three game worn Curtis Sanford jersey's..

I was going to throw that out there. But didn't want to get too personal. Thanks though! :grin:

Oh, and BTW. If there's any Sanford Superfans out there interested. I've got an autographed puck I'd be more than willing to part with for the right price.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Battra wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


Yes I have watched games. I have been to games, thank you.

I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?

I have concerns that he's going to falter, like he did in Nashville, and those concerns are being shown in the results.

Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


The problem is you seem to be basing your opinion on stats alone...and stats rarely tell the whole story, especially with goaltending.
With goalies, their stats can be heavily influenced by the play of the team around them.

Therefore, actually analyzing his play instead of just looking at the stats, would give you a better idea of how well Mason has played. Hence the "common sense" comment.

I'm not sure how actually analyzing Mason's play, instead of focusing solely on stats, can be criticized. It's the best way to evaluate any player.

So, you say you have watched the games...if so, then would you say he is a victim of the way the team is playing around him, or is he actually playing as bad as his stats are saying right now?



Again, I am NOT basing it on the stats alone...

I'm saying the proof is in the results.

I think Mason's giving up softies.


And the results you listed as reasons to be concerned about Mason, were stats.
Breaking down glaring errors Mason has made, game in and game out that are costing Blues games might be a better way for you to approach this.
Just sayin'.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Softies? Ha.

It's like every goalie is either Patrick Roy in his prime or he's crap.

Time to re-evaluate what a softie is.

Making 6 amazing saves in a row and then missing the 7th is not a softie.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Yeah, any goalie is going to get scored on when Malkin gets 3 consecutive shots on goal, on the power play. How does that happen? It wasn't like someone passed it to him, he got his rebound each time.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:34 pm 
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I don't know why there is discussion about this at all... flip a coin, cause they are essentially the same guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:43 pm 
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cprice12 wrote:
Battra wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


Yes I have watched games. I have been to games, thank you.

I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?

I have concerns that he's going to falter, like he did in Nashville, and those concerns are being shown in the results.

Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


The problem is you seem to be basing your opinion on stats alone...and stats rarely tell the whole story, especially with goaltending.
With goalies, their stats can be heavily influenced by the play of the team around them.

Therefore, actually analyzing his play instead of just looking at the stats, would give you a better idea of how well Mason has played. Hence the "common sense" comment.

I'm not sure how actually analyzing Mason's play, instead of focusing solely on stats, can be criticized. It's the best way to evaluate any player.

So, you say you have watched the games...if so, then would you say he is a victim of the way the team is playing around him, or is he actually playing as bad as his stats are saying right now?



Again, I am NOT basing it on the stats alone...

I'm saying the proof is in the results.

I think Mason's giving up softies.


And the results you listed as reasons to be concerned about Mason, were stats.
Breaking down glaring errors Mason has made, game in and game out that are costing Blues games might be a better way for you to approach this.
Just sayin'.


Interesting point.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Again...what does Curtis Sanford have to do with anything involved in this?

I've never been one to root for the major star on the team. I never had a Hullie, Oates, Gretzky, Boyes, Oshie, Berglund, Tkachuk, MacInnis, etc jersey. It's now about how good a player is, it's about what I like.

It's like this...

Does anybody here like, say, The Beatles or the Ramones? If either one of these bands would be your favorite, by your standards, it would be impossible to discuss music with you, because you're not following the BEST BEST BEST!!!

Again, it's not about what's best, but who you like.

Battra
(not a bandwagon jumper and not a lover of sexy draft picks.)


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:48 pm 
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SIU LAW wrote:
section319 wrote:
Why are you arguing with him? He comes here from the asylum and everyone argues with him, its pointless.


I respect your wisdom.


My apologies for my dissenting opinion.

Mason is the greatest goalie ever to play for the Blues and the fact that in the only other season he was the incumbent starter he was demoted and shipped out of town has nothing to do with anything.

Better?


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Battra wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
Battra wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
Using your own two eyes and common sense should help you see that Mason’s play has not been the issue.


Ahh..

The common sense tact. If that's the best argument you have there's no point in continuing.


WTF?

Why you getting so dismissive if someone tells you to beyond the stats and actually watch the game and critically think about what is going on?

It doesn’t take a learned hockey mind to evaluate Mason’s performance thus far.

Have you actually seen these games with your own two eyes? Yes or no?


Yes I have watched games. I have been to games, thank you.

I get dismissive because when one uses the common sense tact, it's shows that any conclusion I come to, would be stupid, if it differs from yours.

I have evaluated it, and I see it differently.

What does that mean to you?

I have concerns that he's going to falter, like he did in Nashville, and those concerns are being shown in the results.

Conklin, seems to be largely unaffected by this 'shoddy play' of the Blues.


The problem is you seem to be basing your opinion on stats alone...and stats rarely tell the whole story, especially with goaltending.
With goalies, their stats can be heavily influenced by the play of the team around them.

Therefore, actually analyzing his play instead of just looking at the stats, would give you a better idea of how well Mason has played. Hence the "common sense" comment.

I'm not sure how actually analyzing Mason's play, instead of focusing solely on stats, can be criticized. It's the best way to evaluate any player.

So, you say you have watched the games...if so, then would you say he is a victim of the way the team is playing around him, or is he actually playing as bad as his stats are saying right now?



Again, I am NOT basing it on the stats alone...

I'm saying the proof is in the results.

I think Mason's giving up softies.


And the results you listed as reasons to be concerned about Mason, were stats.
Breaking down glaring errors Mason has made, game in and game out that are costing Blues games might be a better way for you to approach this.
Just sayin'.


Interesting point.


Indeed


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:55 pm 
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Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
section319 wrote:
Why are you arguing with him? He comes here from the asylum and everyone argues with him, its pointless.


I respect your wisdom.


My apologies for my dissenting opinion.

Mason is the greatest goalie ever to play for the Blues and the fact that in the only other season he was the incumbent starter he was demoted and shipped out of town has nothing to do with anything.

Better?


You're allowed to have dissenting opinions... just not dumb ones.

One mediocre season and a slow start does not equal a pattern.

Consistency is the bane of many an NHL goaltender.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:56 pm 
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kodos wrote:
Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
section319 wrote:
Why are you arguing with him? He comes here from the asylum and everyone argues with him, its pointless.


I respect your wisdom.


My apologies for my dissenting opinion.

Mason is the greatest goalie ever to play for the Blues and the fact that in the only other season he was the incumbent starter he was demoted and shipped out of town has nothing to do with anything.

Better?


You're allowed to have dissenting opinions... just not dumb ones.

One mediocre season and a slow start does not equal a pattern.

Consistency is the bane of many an NHL goaltender.



I apologize for thinking this slow star, was reminiscent of another slow start.

Opinions are opinions.

They're not facts.

Any time I've a dissenting one, out come the claws, out come the what does he know, he likes Sanford blah blah.

Again.

My apologies.

Mason is great.


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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Get Jake Allen in here!

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Why

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:15 pm 
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Battra wrote:
SIU LAW wrote:
section319 wrote:
Why are you arguing with him? He comes here from the asylum and everyone argues with him, its pointless.


I respect your wisdom.


My apologies for my dissenting opinion.

Mason is the greatest goalie ever to play for the Blues and the fact that in the only other season he was the incumbent starter he was demoted and shipped out of town has nothing to do with anything.

Better?


Hmmm...I could be wrong, but I don't think the people you are debating with care who is in net. We just want to win hockey games. I could care less who is in goal (Mason, Conklin, Bishop, etc.), as long as he is playing well and we are winning games. Period.

And when a discussion about why the Blues are struggling a bit in the early go this season, inexplicably turns to "poor goaltending", when some of us don't think goaltending is a problem, and certainly not the reason we lost 5-1 in Pittsburgh, and in the same breath get accused of basically being Mason apologists...well...it's insulting to our intelligence as hockey fans.

To ramble on for page after page about goaltending when it isn't the problem, is a pain in the ass.
This time could be better spent discussing...
- Why we got outshot 20-3 in the 1st period last night. Was that Mason's fault? No.
- Getting outshot 15-8 in the 2nd period...was that Mason's fault? No.
- Letting Evgeni Malkin get 12 shots on net in Tuesday's game...was that Mason's fault? No.

If you have a bad leak in your basement foundation, you don't fix the problem by drying up the water on the floor...you fix the problem by fixing the hole in the wall so the water never comes in. In other words, control the puck and you won't get outshot by 20 and dominated on the scoreboard. If the Blues were playing even with these teams but losing on bad goals in an otherwise even game, then you can look at goaltending as a problem. But you can't blame goaltending when you get outshot 43-23. Sorry...but that's just stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Conklin or Mason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:22 pm 
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cprice12 wrote:
you can't blame goaltending when you get outshot 43-23. Sorry...but that's just stupid.


Not if the goalie is causing the team to play different in front of him.

VIVA LA CONKS!


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