It is currently Wed May 27, 2015 12:00 pm

Board index » Let's Go Blues » St. Louis Blues Discussion

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:43 pm 
Offline
2nd Line Scorer
2nd Line Scorer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:26 pm
Posts: 366
894 goals in 1,487 games assists: 1,963

Gretzky retired at only 38 in perfect healthy condition. Had he played in just ONE more season, and retired at 39, which is still younger than what most retire at, he could have passed 900 goals, 1500 games, and possibly 2,000 assists.

Forget assists for now. All he needed was 6 more goals to reach 900, and 13 more games to reach 1,500 games played. Had he played in just 13 more games, there's a chance he would gave gotten 6 more goals. He could have retired then. He could have signed with any team (it's not he was too old for any team to want him), played until he got over 900 goals or 13 more games, whichever came first, then voila - retired. It just baffles me. Hell, the guy probably had 3 more years left in him - so I'm sure he could have played half of one more season.

902 goals sounds better than 894.

If Ovechkin retires at 998 goals.... ugh.....

_________________
Official 2011-'12 sponsor of the hot chick from the FSMW Blues commercials.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:42 am
Posts: 3468
Location: Provo, Spain
No one, NO ONE will EVER break those records. Moot point, man. Gretz knew when his production was declining and chose to leave the game with his health and his legacy FIRMLY intact. If he had declined much more in scoring it almost would have been embarrassing for him I would guess.

_________________
Official LGB Sponsor TJ Oshie
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:57 pm 
Offline
3rd Line Grinder
3rd Line Grinder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:43 am
Posts: 199
before this season Ovechkin was on pace to score 968 over a 20 year career. Through Gretzky's first 5 seasons he was on pace to score 1,424 goals. Gretzky averaged 63 goals a season over his first 10 seasons and 26 goals over his last 10 seasons.

Considering that Ovechkin is a much more physical player who is more likely to break down physically as he ages, the odds of him surpassing Gretzky's goal totals in an age where scoring is harder when he's not even averaging Gretzkly goal pace at his age and is not nearly as likely to age as well as Gretzky did, it's a little premature to start talking about someone breaking Gretzky's records.

As for assists....he's 714 ahead of the next closest guy, and points he's 970 points ahead of the second on the all time list.

Unless the NHL makes the nets 6 feet by 4 feet or drastically alters the equipment used in the NHL, all Gretzky would have done by playing a few more years is pad his counting stats that will likely not be broken for decades.

_________________
Official LGB Sponser of 4 year old signatures:
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:01 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 2634
Location: Mizzou
deadphish wrote:
No one, NO ONE will EVER break those records. Moot point, man. Gretz knew when his production was declining and chose to leave the game with his health and his legacy FIRMLY intact. If he had declined much more in scoring it almost would have been embarrassing for him I would guess.

This.

What I find dissapointing is when Mario Lemieux had to quit playing for those few years, he was still having 100 point seasons in the 2000's. I would love to see his point totals at retirement if he could have played all those years.


Edit: nevermind after looking at his stas again he was only out three years, I thought it was more and he didn't have 100 points in the 2000's buy did have one in the 90's. But, still if he hadn't had those health problems...

_________________
Official LGB sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko.


Last edited by section319 on Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:03 pm 
Offline
2nd Line Scorer
2nd Line Scorer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:26 pm
Posts: 366
Yeah I understand that. But Gretzky's production declining is Keith Tkachuck on his best day. My point is, hypothetically, if I'm a hockey player and have 999 goals, I'm going to continue to play hockey to get one more goal even if I'm 90 years old cancer patient with no legs. It may be hard, but I'm going to get that one goal eventually. With that said, Gretzky was still in healthy condition at only 39, and for him to retire when he's only 6 goals away to 900, which he could have easily done in 20 games, much less a season, is just something I wouldn't do. But that's just me. Just imagine his numbers if he played as long as Chelios.

_________________
Official 2011-'12 sponsor of the hot chick from the FSMW Blues commercials.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:08 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 2634
Location: Mizzou
Or as long as Gordie..

_________________
Official LGB sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Posts: 20429
Location: Center Ice
section319 wrote:
Or as long as Gordie..


Howe coming back to play one shift in that one game when he was like 80, just to be able to say he played in however many different decades, is a disgrace. He should be embarrassed. He comes off as a guy only concerned about grabbing another record in the record books.

_________________
Image
Image

2014-2015 Sponsor -- Blues Asst. Coach Kirk Muller


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:22 pm 
Offline
Hockey God
Hockey God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:05 pm
Posts: 11892
Gretzky had done and seen it all. He had nothing to prove to anyone. I don't blame him. He was accustomed to playing at a certain level and was no longer able to do it, so I'm sure it was frustrating for him. Plus playing in the NHL is a grind. Maybe he just wanted to enjoy his life for a while.

Also, Ovetchkin won't keep up this pace. There is a history of Euro/rooskie players coming over, playing at a superstar level and then burning out. It seems to happen to them all.

And when I say burning out, I mean they go from playing like the next league superstar, to just playing like a plain old star.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:24 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Posts: 20429
Location: Center Ice
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all. He had nothing to prove to anyone. I don't blame him. He was accustomed to playing at a certain level and was no longer able to do it, so I'm sure it was frustrating for him. Plus playing in the NHL is a grind. Maybe he just wanted to enjoy his life for a while.

Also, Ovetchkin won't keep up this pace. There is a history of Euro/rooskie players coming over, playing at a superstar level and then burning out. It seems to happen to them all.

And when I say burning out, I mean they go from playing like the next league superstar, to just playing like a plain old star.


See:
Federov, Sergei
Mogilny, Alexander
Bure, Pavel

They all just kind of fell off the table all of a sudden.

_________________
Image
Image

2014-2015 Sponsor -- Blues Asst. Coach Kirk Muller


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:25 pm 
Online
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:00 pm
Posts: 4873
Location: Phi Alpha
He just wanted to retire in 99

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:28 pm 
Offline
Hockey God
Hockey God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:05 pm
Posts: 11892
cprice12 wrote:
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all. He had nothing to prove to anyone. I don't blame him. He was accustomed to playing at a certain level and was no longer able to do it, so I'm sure it was frustrating for him. Plus playing in the NHL is a grind. Maybe he just wanted to enjoy his life for a while.

Also, Ovetchkin won't keep up this pace. There is a history of Euro/rooskie players coming over, playing at a superstar level and then burning out. It seems to happen to them all.

And when I say burning out, I mean they go from playing like the next league superstar, to just playing like a plain old star.


See:
Federov, Sergei
Mogilny, Alexander
Bure, Pavel

They all just kind of fell off the table all of a sudden.



Teemu Selane, Jaromir Jagr...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Posts: 20429
Location: Center Ice
He only scored 9 goals in his last season. There is no guarantee he would have gotten 6 goals had he played another year.

Imagine being accustomed to scoring 40-50-60-70+ goals in a season, and only scoring 9 when you are nearing the end of your career.
I'm sure he felt it was time to go since he wasn't performing at a level he would have liked or was used to.

The game was also changing. Gretzky was ahead of his time, but time and the skill level around him caught up and the game had started to focus a lot more on defense. It was tougher to score. There was a lot less room on the ice, goaltending was getting much better, the game was speeding up, the players were getting bigger...and he was getting older.

And retiring in '99 was kind of cool I guess.

He's still a douche for turning down a 3 year, $15 million contract from us and signing a 2-year, $8 million contract with the Rangers. He was a proven playoff performer...the best of all time, and that is something the Blues lacked in the late 90's.

_________________
Image
Image

2014-2015 Sponsor -- Blues Asst. Coach Kirk Muller


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:49 pm 
Online
Hockey God
Hockey God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
Posts: 6717
Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach
If I'm a player that had completed my legacy by 38, made my millions, and completely dominated the sport for 20 years, I'd get out no matter the age or stats I was at. These guys sacrifice TONS in terms of family etc. When you have a wife and kids and you're on the road half of the year, I'm sure it takes its toll. You miss out on all sorts of things.

Gretzky earned the right to retire whenever he wanted to. And besides, look at Chelios, the guy is a punchline now. Kids these days are going to remember Chelios as the old guy that won't quit, not the Norris trophy winning defenseman that he was. No shame in leaving the game early.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:57 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:03 pm
Posts: 3631
Location: The estrogen-free hockey-watching man-cave
If he didn't want to play any more, why should he? It's no different that any of us deciding to get a different job.

There's also an old saying: "Once an athlete thinks about retiring, he already has."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:31 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:06 pm
Posts: 3759
Location: StL/CoMo
all that matters is that he retired in '99.

_________________
Official 2014-15 LGB Sponsor of David Backes


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:55 pm 
Offline
Hockey God
Hockey God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:18 pm
Posts: 17130
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all.


All except the ultimate feeling of victory and vengeance as you stand over some turtling douchebag you just pummeled into a bloody pulp with your foil covered fists.

_________________
Official '14-'15 sponsor of the $17.8+ trillion U.S. national debt.
Past Sponsorships: '13-'14 another season of bitter disappointment; '13: communism; 11-'12: Vlad Sobotka and fake, drunken lesbianism; 10-'11: Ryan Reaves, Bo Derek's cans, Willow Palin, and the new Lightning logo; 09-'10: the epic destruction of the Politics Forum; 08-'09: Sandy Miller


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:07 pm 
Offline
Hockey God
Hockey God

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
Posts: 8117
Location: Long Island, NY
goon attack wrote:
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all.


All except the ultimate feeling of victory and vengeance as you stand over some turtling douchebag you just pummeled into a bloody pulp with your foil covered fists.


Which, of course, is far more satisfying than winning the whole damn thing.

_________________
LGB sponsor of Ian Cole 2011-2012
LGB sponsor of Gary Bettman's Pink Slip 2013
LGB sponsor of Dmitrij Jaskin 2013-2014
LGB sponsor of Ian Cole (again) 2014-2015


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:59 pm 
Offline
LGB Booster - Blue
LGB Booster - Blue
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:56 am
Posts: 4619
Location: Portland, OR
kodos wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all. He had nothing to prove to anyone. I don't blame him. He was accustomed to playing at a certain level and was no longer able to do it, so I'm sure it was frustrating for him. Plus playing in the NHL is a grind. Maybe he just wanted to enjoy his life for a while.

Also, Ovetchkin won't keep up this pace. There is a history of Euro/rooskie players coming over, playing at a superstar level and then burning out. It seems to happen to them all.

And when I say burning out, I mean they go from playing like the next league superstar, to just playing like a plain old star.


See:
Federov, Sergei
Mogilny, Alexander
Bure, Pavel

They all just kind of fell off the table all of a sudden.



Teemu Selane, Jaromir Jagr...


I think you can say that for any player...Yzerman, Hull, etc. Hell Jagr had great seasons in 05-06 and 06-07. There's no telling what happens as players get into their mid 30's.

_________________

To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:46 pm 
Online
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:00 pm
Posts: 4873
Location: Phi Alpha
northwest dave wrote:
kodos wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all. He had nothing to prove to anyone. I don't blame him. He was accustomed to playing at a certain level and was no longer able to do it, so I'm sure it was frustrating for him. Plus playing in the NHL is a grind. Maybe he just wanted to enjoy his life for a while.

Also, Ovetchkin won't keep up this pace. There is a history of Euro/rooskie players coming over, playing at a superstar level and then burning out. It seems to happen to them all.

And when I say burning out, I mean they go from playing like the next league superstar, to just playing like a plain old star.


See:
Federov, Sergei
Mogilny, Alexander
Bure, Pavel

They all just kind of fell off the table all of a sudden.



Teemu Selane, Jaromir Jagr...


I think you can say that for any player...Yzerman, Hull, etc. Hell Jagr had great seasons in 05-06 and 06-07. There's no telling what happens as players get into their mid 30's.


Wait. You mean to tell me that players' stats aren't consistent, all the time, especially when they get into their late 30's!? OMFG

edit: and Selanne is still playing phenomenally

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:33 pm 
Offline
LGB Booster - Blue
LGB Booster - Blue
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:56 am
Posts: 4619
Location: Portland, OR
WaukeeBlues wrote:
northwest dave wrote:
kodos wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
kodos wrote:
Gretzky had done and seen it all. He had nothing to prove to anyone. I don't blame him. He was accustomed to playing at a certain level and was no longer able to do it, so I'm sure it was frustrating for him. Plus playing in the NHL is a grind. Maybe he just wanted to enjoy his life for a while.

Also, Ovetchkin won't keep up this pace. There is a history of Euro/rooskie players coming over, playing at a superstar level and then burning out. It seems to happen to them all.

And when I say burning out, I mean they go from playing like the next league superstar, to just playing like a plain old star.


See:
Federov, Sergei
Mogilny, Alexander
Bure, Pavel

They all just kind of fell off the table all of a sudden.



Teemu Selane, Jaromir Jagr...


I think you can say that for any player...Yzerman, Hull, etc. Hell Jagr had great seasons in 05-06 and 06-07. There's no telling what happens as players get into their mid 30's.


Wait. You mean to tell me that players' stats aren't consistent, all the time, especially when they get into their late 30's!? OMFG

edit: and Selanne is still playing phenomenally


Yep, that's what I'm saying. Maybe you should tell cprice and kodos.

_________________

To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Board index » Let's Go Blues » St. Louis Blues Discussion

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dmiles2186, gaijin, WaukeeBlues, Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group