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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:50 pm 
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So, all we have to do it replace Cam with who? Eller? And that fixes our problems? I see what you guys are saying, I just don't think that it is really hurtingthis team that much to have Janssen play. If that's the case we our relying on third and fourth line scoring way too much.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:59 pm 
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I will give you that Cam is probably not hurting "this" team that much. However if the team is going to advance and become a 100+ point team we have to have contributions from every line. That is why #18 is such an asset to have. Even though it's doubtful that we make the playoffs this year we have to look at teams like Pitt and Chicago and copy what their organizations are doing to make it back to a playoff contender. The future of this hockey team is not Cam, even though I think he is a great guy and I wish him no ill will. The future is Ellers, Cole, Junland, ect. They are the future and if we are eliminated from the playoffs I say get them up here and let them learn the speed of the game and get some on the job training for next year and leave Cam in the alumni room.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Hey glen, so what happens when we don't dress a guy like Cam and the opposing team decides to dress a few guys that are tougher than Crombeen and Backes? What do we do then... pray on the bench that the other team decides to be nice and not beat the living shit out of our guys?

Cam is not Twist but he is somebody to be reckoned with.

I'm sort of on your side regarding the larger argument that sideshow goon hockey is NOT preferable to guys who are skilled and will fight, but I get the feeling that if Backes became a 40g 90p guy, you'd be chirping about how he needs to stay out of the box and not drop the gloves.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:09 pm 
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but goon, that's my entire argument. It is sideshow goonery and it's taking away from productivity. Let more offensively skilled players handle the on ice policing. They have in the past, they can in the future. I don't care if Backes takes 500 PIM's, he proved last year that he can sit in the box a ton and score plenty too. But Cam? 193 games, 6 points, 458 PIM. What's the point? You can honestly tell me that there's not a single guy they could have gotten via trade, free agency or through the in-house pipeline who would fight plus actually score 30-40 points a season?

I'm not asking for the goon to put up a point a game, I'm asking for the goon to serve some offensive purpose in addition to his bodyguard duties.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:16 pm 
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I'd say Cam is as useless as teats on a male boar pig, but then I'd have to say "teats".

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:52 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
but goon, that's my entire argument. It is sideshow goonery and it's taking away from productivity. Let more offensively skilled players handle the on ice policing. They have in the past, they can in the future. I don't care if Backes takes 500 PIM's, he proved last year that he can sit in the box a ton and score plenty too. But Cam? 193 games, 6 points, 458 PIM. What's the point? You can honestly tell me that there's not a single guy they could have gotten via trade, free agency or through the in-house pipeline who would fight plus actually score 30-40 points a season?

I'm not asking for the goon to put up a point a game, I'm asking for the goon to serve some offensive purpose in addition to his bodyguard duties.

Crombeen and Winchester aren't 30-40 point scorers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:00 am 
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Holy crap, guys. Basically every team has players like Cam on the roster. Maybe some contribute more, but there really isn't an amazing option out there to replace him with. Parros from Anaheim is basically the same, Prust for Calgary. These teams typically aren't begging for goals from their 4th liners, why do you think we should? It would be nice to be able to have a 4th line of Winchester, Crombeen and McClement cause I think that would mean that our top 3 lines would be incredible, but that just isn't the case. 100 point teams don't have all of their roster spots filled with 30-40+ point a year guys and for good reason. That means there is still defense and something to be said about good players negating weaker players in this sport. If everyone could score like Boyes or better we'd be no better than the NBA.

There is essentially no way that Cam brings negatives to this team's winning that would be remedied by playing Yan Stastny or any other replacement for 4-5 minutes a night. If this is the case, why not use that one guy to bring the crowd to life (we small-brained individuals who enjoy mutually agreed-upon fisticuffs) and maybe serve as an intimidation factor?

Yan Stastny is as much a savior of this team as Cam is the demise.

Skate Cam at home or against teams with other enforcers so they focus on him instead of Backes or someone who can score. Otherwise play perennial all-star and future HOFer Armstrong or Stastny for 4 mins and watch the wins roll right f***in' in.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:19 am 
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goon attack wrote:
I'm sort of on your side regarding the larger argument that sideshow goon hockey is NOT preferable to guys who are skilled and will fight, but I get the feeling that if Backes became a 40g 90p guy, you'd be chirping about how he needs to stay out of the box and not drop the gloves.



Not, me. I'd build a shrine to him.

If I can get 40 goals, 90 points, and 20 + fighting majors out of Backas on a regular basis, he's getting a statue out front too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:31 am 
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section319 wrote:

I'm not asking for the goon to put up a point a game, I'm asking for the goon to serve some offensive purpose in addition to his bodyguard duties.

Crombeen and Winchester aren't 30-40 point scorers.[/quote]


No they are not, But they are much bigger threats to score then Cam and they are nowhere near the liability.

That's the point. He's completely blown offensive pressures and is often way behind the play hitting empty boards while the other team heads down ice. and lord help us if we get pinned down in our end and need him to help clear the puck.

I think that’s what many are missing. We all agree that Cam is a sufficient heavyweight and we all love watching him fight, but there is no arguing that he in no way puts us in a better position to win games and there is plenty of evidence that suggests that he is in fact detriment to efforts of putting the puck in the net and keeping it out of ours.

If this teams was either scoring 4 goals a game and was getting consistent solid goal tending then perhaps we could afford the liability he presents, but if you haven’t noticed this team has trouble scoring and the goaltending has been nowhere near the level we saw the second half of last year.

I don’ understand all the hurt feelings, no one hates fighting and no one hates Cam, we are merely stating that the most important thing to the organization and most hockey fans in winning hockey games and compiling points. It is my opinion that Cam does not help that effort.

That is all.

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