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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:02 pm 
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It was the same dance every year with AM: Start the year in utter sucktitude, make a spirited go at in in the spring, typically fail, repeat. IIRC he had what? 2.5/ 3 years? I'll tell you what that's a pretty good chunck of time. His coaching decisions got old, but most importantly he lost the players. When you do that, it's time to go.

It wasn't "OMG WE LOVE TEH PAYNE!" it was "let's get Murray out of here. Payne, step in for right now." Or so I took it anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:04 pm 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
Leedog wrote:
See, my whole point is how could AM have the structure so effed up and still get them into the playoffs a year or two ahead of schedule. Especially with all the injuries last year. And, as far as "losing the room", if that was the problem, I guess Payne hasn't "found it".


Payne's been there a friggin' month. It's going to take a bit longer to clean up the mess that Murray left. Scotty Bowman couldn't turn this team around in a month.


I just think some people have a difficult time comprehending the sheer amount of work necessary to clean up after a train wreck.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:27 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
Leedog wrote:
See, my whole point is how could AM have the structure so effed up and still get them into the playoffs a year or two ahead of schedule. Especially with all the injuries last year. And, as far as "losing the room", if that was the problem, I guess Payne hasn't "found it".


Payne's been there a friggin' month. It's going to take a bit longer to clean up the mess that Murray left. Scotty Bowman couldn't turn this team around in a month.


I just think some people have a difficult time comprehending the sheer amount of work necessary to clean up after a train wreck.


Are you talking about Republicans?

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:44 pm 
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cprice12 wrote:
glen a richter wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
Leedog wrote:
See, my whole point is how could AM have the structure so effed up and still get them into the playoffs a year or two ahead of schedule. Especially with all the injuries last year. And, as far as "losing the room", if that was the problem, I guess Payne hasn't "found it".


Payne's been there a friggin' month. It's going to take a bit longer to clean up the mess that Murray left. Scotty Bowman couldn't turn this team around in a month.


I just think some people have a difficult time comprehending the sheer amount of work necessary to clean up after a train wreck.


Are you talking about Republicans?


OH NOES U DIDNT!!!!!!11!!!!nopolitics!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:19 pm 
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Leedog wrote:
See, my whole point is how could AM have the structure so effed up and still get them into the playoffs a year or two ahead of schedule. Especially with all the injuries last year. And, as far as "losing the room", if that was the problem, I guess Payne hasn't "found it".


Whatever Murray did right last year wasn't working anymore and if you look at his tenure with the Blues it didn't appear to be working on the whole. They had on insanely hot half of a season that led to the playoffs. Obviously things went well enough for a period of time to catapult the Blues into the playoffs. Was it because the Blues bought into Murray's style of play and executed it extraordinarily well? Or was it just a gutsy performance by the players? Either way, it stopped working. For an organization which (1) has a road map of developing from within and promoting a patient rebuild and (2) declared the fans were the last piece of the puzzle, the only logical move was to fire the coach. If they make meaningful player moves they're probably going to have to trade a couple of the prospects and young players they've been patiently drafting and developing. Even that wouldn't guarantee success and you'd be destroying both (1) and (2). Firing Murray was logical. They stayed true to (1) while doing something that had the chance to save (2). And it still has that chance. There are still games left to play and to suggest otherwise is premature.

Its one thing to be frustrated, its another to play internet GM and make judgments before its all said and done. I choose to be frustrated and withhold judgment than doing the whole knee-jerk thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:40 pm 
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cprice12 wrote:
glen a richter wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
Leedog wrote:
See, my whole point is how could AM have the structure so effed up and still get them into the playoffs a year or two ahead of schedule. Especially with all the injuries last year. And, as far as "losing the room", if that was the problem, I guess Payne hasn't "found it".


Payne's been there a friggin' month. It's going to take a bit longer to clean up the mess that Murray left. Scotty Bowman couldn't turn this team around in a month.


I just think some people have a difficult time comprehending the sheer amount of work necessary to clean up after a train wreck.


Are you talking about Republicans?


He said 'train wreck' not Atom Bomb.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:32 am 
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cprice12 wrote:

Are you talking about Republicans?


I can see the Blues' promo line next year.....yes we can....change we can believe in....then the blues will triple their debt while losing fans(jobs)...and promising universal season tickets(health care) paid for by the richest 1% of blues fans to try and create new fans. they will raise concession prices(taxes) only for those people sitting in the first 10 rows from the ice to help pay for the free concessions(entitlement programs) for the rest. and somehow this will create enough revenue to build a competitive team(strong economy). the blues should also make sure that their roster (affirmative action aka pandering) includes women, minorities and other alternative lifestyles as to ensure that no one is offended, including the historic first black head coach (obama). they will cut back their budget towards strong power forwards(military spending) as to not come off as bullies to the rest of the league (the world).....and our 3rd jersey will be a rainbow (doubles as the arch) to show our sensativity towards the progessive movement. but not to fear, every team will make the playoffs and there will be no winners and losers. at the end every team will get a trophy for participating....yes we can. :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:02 am 
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keithp40 wrote:
cprice12 wrote:

Are you talking about Republicans?


I can see the Blues' promo line next year.....yes we can....change we can believe in....then the blues will triple their debt while losing fans(jobs)...and promising universal season tickets(health care) paid for by the richest 1% of blues fans to try and create new fans. they will raise concession prices(taxes) only for those people sitting in the first 10 rows from the ice to help pay for the free concessions(entitlement programs) for the rest. and somehow this will create enough revenue to build a competitive team(strong economy). the blues should also make sure that their roster (affirmative action aka pandering) includes women, minorities and other alternative lifestyles as to ensure that no one is offended, including the historic first black head coach (obama). they will cut back their budget towards strong power forwards(military spending) as to not come off as bullies to the rest of the league (the world).....and our 3rd jersey will be a rainbow (doubles as the arch) to show our sensativity towards the progessive movement. but not to fear, every team will make the playoffs and there will be no winners and losers. at the end every team will get a trophy for participating....yes we can. :grin:


Awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:34 am 
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Leedog wrote:
See, my whole point is how could AM have the structure so effed up and still get them into the playoffs a year or two ahead of schedule. Especially with all the injuries last year.

I wouldn't give the credit to Murray for the second half success of last years team. That whole situation was an anomaly. It's pretty apparent that this team was not ready for the playoffs, and no one can explain exactly how it happened the way it did. Not that I didn't love every minute of it, but I think we'd be in a much better situation if we did not make the playoffs last year. The expectations wouldn't have been near as high, and we could've continued to develop our young team with an understanding fan base. Making the playoffs put a ton of pressure on everyone to repeat something that should've never happened in the first place.

I'm staying patient (although frustrated at times) with the team as they just needs time to find themselves and grow. We'll get there. I believe Payne could be the guy that really helps this team develop into what could be a force for years to come. With all the people that have come out and raved about his coaching, he definitely deserves more than 3-4 months to show what he can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:40 am 
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Then if the team wasn't/isn't ready for the playoffs, then why fire AM? I honestly don't see any difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:47 am 
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Leedog wrote:
Then if the team wasn't/isn't ready for the playoffs, then why fire AM? I honestly don't see any difference.


when you say "ready for the playoffs", do you mean ready to make the playoffs, or ready to acutally be competitive in the playoffs? i think last year the blues made the playoffs, but obviously didnt' come off as ready for the playoffs. i think if you make the playoffs, that is an outstandingly great year nowadays in the NHL. in years past, not so much. a number of teams will have to NOT make the playoffs, that is how the system works. just because you don't make it, doesn't mean you were supposed to and failed to live up to what was expected and doesn't mean you should fire your coach. when ever you "fail" you no doubt blame your leader and its easier to fire one guy than the whole team.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:57 am 
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well, if payne is ousted......who is available?

i say bring in gretzky and hull as coach and assistant coach. then hull could fire pucks at players heads during practice to get em all riled up! bring in cujo as the goaltending coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:16 am 
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Leedog wrote:
Then if the team wasn't/isn't ready for the playoffs, then why fire AM? I honestly don't see any difference.

AM's style of coaching was not beneficial for this team. He had 3 years and really didn't get anywhere with the team (minus the playoff run). The way the coaches are shuffled around in the NHL, 3 years is actually a long time. We were in need of a fresh set of ideas with a more offensive approach to the game. Plus, as many have stated, the FO couldn't fire the entire team. The firing was the most logical approach to try and save this season (which isn't really working). If we don't make the playoffs, it's not going to be Davis Payne's fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Improvement?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Sweetred95ta wrote:
Leedog wrote:
Then if the team wasn't/isn't ready for the playoffs, then why fire AM? I honestly don't see any difference.

AM's style of coaching was not beneficial for this team. He had 3 years and really didn't get anywhere with the team (minus the playoff run). The way the coaches are shuffled around in the NHL, 3 years is actually a long time. We were in need of a fresh set of ideas with a more offensive approach to the game. Plus, as many have stated, the FO couldn't fire the entire team. The firing was the most logical approach to try and save this season (which isn't really working). If we don't make the playoffs, it's not going to be Davis Payne's fault.


its not that difficult.....send em out, and put the puck on net. hit somebody!

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