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 Post subject: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:36 am 
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It’s believed the defenseman is seeking a deal worth in the neighborhood of $7 million per season, while the club appears unwilling to eclipse $6 million.


Personally, based on his play last season, I don't think he's worth $6 million per year, much less $7 million.

I'll be a little upset if they sign him for $7 million per year. That's ridiculous. He has had one stellar season. He hasn't done enough yet to warrant that kind of contract. He's only 23.
He could very well be the next Bobby Orr...who knows how good he can be. But he hasn't done it yet. Do it, and then get paid.

I hope they don't cave into his $7 million demand.

I was hoping to get him under contract for 5 years at about $5.5 million per. Doesn't look like that's going to happen.
I think that's pretty generous based on his career as a whole so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:54 am 
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So many contracts are based on predictions of what the player is going to do over the lifetime of that deal. The problem with the 'prove it and then get paid' method is that Petro and his agent are looking for a long term deal from the sounds of it. Right now, 7 million is a little high. But if you go by Petro's ceiling, which projects out to be 'Possible Norris winner, one of the best D-men in the league' then 7 million isn't outrageous.

For comparison, Bouwmeester's last deal, his big in-his-prime contract, his cap hit was $6.6 mil. If you ask me, I would say Petro is/or will be better than Bouw over that time, and going by that, I'd say Petro and his agent have a good argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:35 am 
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I know it would never happen, but what's wrong with, say, a base contract of 5.5 mil/yr and then bonuses based on winning the Norris, winning the cup, +/-. Petro knows he's good, everyone knows he's good. What's the risk to him? Or is bonus money a problem with regards to the salary cap?

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:41 am 
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I really don't understand why they gave Bouwmeester a contract before Petro. You can't say that deal isn't being used by Petro's people as leverage for his deal.

In the end, whether you make 5 or 7 million dollars a year as a player, is there really that much difference at that point? You're getting a crap ton of money to play a game. I guess it's easy for me to sit here and say that I'd take 5 million over 7 million for the greater good of the team. I'm a middle class working man who would be lucky to make 5 million in a lifetime, let alone for a few months of work. It's not unheard of for a player to take a pay cut, but it's a rarity. I guess it's just my wishful thinking that players would want the Blues to win more than they want to make a few extra million a year.

I hope they can work something out like glen suggested; a more reasonable base salary with performance-based incentives. Unfortunately, I think Petro holds the upper hand here and will probably get what he wants.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:03 am 
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ViPeRx007 wrote:
I really don't understand why they gave Bouwmeester a contract before Petro. You can't say that deal isn't being used by Petro's people as leverage for his deal.

In the end, whether you make 5 or 7 million dollars a year as a player, is there really that much difference at that point? You're getting a crap ton of money to play a game. I guess it's easy for me to sit here and say that I'd take 5 million over 7 million for the greater good of the team. I'm a middle class working man who would be lucky to make 5 million in a lifetime, let alone for a few months of work. It's not unheard of for a player to take a pay cut, but it's a rarity. I guess it's just my wishful thinking that players would want the Blues to win more than they want to make a few extra million a year.

I hope they can work something out like glen suggested; a more reasonable base salary with performance-based incentives. Unfortunately, I think Petro holds the upper hand here and will probably get what he wants.


From what I see:

Who is worth more, Pie or JayBo?

JayBo's record speaks for itself; a man of consistancy who post up consistant assist numbers and is a top-line defenseman.

Pie freshman year was ok, his second year was Norris contender-worthy and last year he looked hesitant, confused and much out of form.

Signing JayBo sent the right message: We pay for consistancy and we pay for excellence. Stewart sucked but we offered a prove-it contract and he posted numbers. The result? Stewart got a new contract making considerably more money.

The message is clear: You're not getting top-dollar if you're not consistant and show excellence but you will get a contract that'll give you a chance to prove yourself and if you do, the money will come.

Pie's people are probably trying to figure out how to get 7m out of the team without making Petro look devalued. That's my guess. Because there's very little they can throw at the Note to say this guy deserves 7m a year.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:59 am 
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In this article, there's a little nugget on both the J-Bouw deal and the Petro negotiations. Army has a contract and pay scale set up and we've seen that with the deals he's handed out. Petro is the first one that will probably buck that trend and that seems to be where the conflict is. At least that's what they'll admit publicly.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/p ... 17fe3.html

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Armstrong has moved cautiously in the Pietrangelo negotiations. The defenseman isn’t unsigned because ownership is unwilling to pay a high price tag, as some have suggested, but because Armstrong wants to continue following the pay-scale model he’s created.

“If you just look at the day Tom Stillman’s group bought the team, the commitment they’ve made financially to the players on the ice, I’m not really sure why ownership commitment to player payroll would be an issue,” Armstrong said. “That I find surprising, quite honestly, because of what Tom and his group have done.”

The commitment actually began in April when the Blues traded for Jay Bouwmeester and took on the final season of his contract at $6.6 million in 2013-14.

“That was sort of Step 1 enhancing the investment in the team itself,” Stillman said.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:04 am 
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ViPeRx007 wrote:
I really don't understand why they gave Bouwmeester a contract before Petro. You can't say that deal isn't being used by Petro's people as leverage for his deal.

I hope they can work something out like glen suggested; a more reasonable base salary with performance-based incentives. Unfortunately, I think Petro holds the upper hand here and will probably get what he wants.


Bouwmeester signing early could have been used as an extra incentive for Petro. The team proving that they are committed to fielding a competitive team and giving him a good partner to play with.

ViPeRx007 wrote:
In the end, whether you make 5 or 7 million dollars a year as a player, is there really that much difference at that point? You're getting a crap ton of money to play a game. I guess it's easy for me to sit here and say that I'd take 5 million over 7 million for the greater good of the team. I'm a middle class working man who would be lucky to make 5 million in a lifetime, let alone for a few months of work. It's not unheard of for a player to take a pay cut, but it's a rarity. I guess it's just my wishful thinking that players would want the Blues to win more than they want to make a few extra million a year.


I don't blame players for trying to make as much money as they can. We as fans have this whole touchy-feely loyalty thing in our heads... but ask David Perron where loyalty gets you. At the end of the day it's a business, and these teams are treating players like interchangeable cogs, so the players treat the teams basically the same way. I'm not saying this is wrong, or bad, it just is what it is.

Most NHL players have a brief window in which they can make a lot of money... and they need to make that money last a lifetime. I'm not saying it's not a poopload of money, because it is, but I get where they are coming from.

And after taxes, insurance and various fees from the players association and all that stuff, 7 million a year is actually more like 3.5 million a year. Again, yes, that's still a poopload... but who knows what's going to happen. Petro could sustain a career ending injury 2 years from now. He has to do everything he can to set himself up for life, because he's not going to get many more chances like this one.

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Last edited by kodos on Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:04 am 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... 10967.html

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:13 am 
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crazyhorse wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/learned-blues-trying-accomplish-alex-pietrangelo-135510967.html


Shoved down towards the end of that article, the tidbit about Jaskin is promising.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:59 am 
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They won't go for incentives, which seem like a good idea for the club, because they don't get paid for them if they get injured.

While so far that's not really an issue with Petro, if he lost sizable time at some point in a multi-year deal, it would be a giant hit to his wallet. Think about Al and Pronger losing chucks of their careers and then if that's also a $2 million mistake, it's a non-starter for players and agents.

I think Petro is on the money with what he wants, and if he's the #1 guy on a playoff team, he should be making #1 money. Sorry if the team doesn't like it, but it's one of those situations where signing 6 or 7 years @ $7mil cap hit per season will seem like value three or four + years from now.

I would hold out all year for the deal I want if it was me. /shrug

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Agreed. When the cap balloons, 7 mil per will seem like chump change.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:42 am 
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Erik Johnson was supposed to be "the shit" too. Glad we didn't shell out a ton of dough for him based on what he was supposed to be.

I don't mind players trying to make as much as they can...but as a fan who wants to see his team be able to afford to put together a good all around team, I'm pissed at the $7 million demand and the lack of a deal thus far.
He's simply not worth $7 million/per right now. Not even close.

One very good season that was followed up by a sub-par season is not grounds for $7 million a year. Sorry. Petro was Brewer-like at times last year. Maybe the 3rd or 4th best D-man on the team last season...and it was frustrating to watch. He wasn't a #1 last year...even if he got #1 minutes. He wasn't playing at a #1 level.
I think he SHOULD BE excellent. But I don't care how good he "will be". Show me how good you are going to be on a consistent basis...something more than one year. And then you can make the big money.

Anything over $5.5 and it's just too much. And like I said before...that would probably too much as well...but whatever.

If he wants more money, earn it. Prove you're worth that kind of jack.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:51 am 
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I don't have it posted but there was a phenomenal TSN video about the ongoing negotiations with Pietrangelo and they said (and I agree) that the Blues want a 2-3 year "prove it" contract of about $5 million a year before he "cashes in" with a long term, heavy, expensive deal. Personally I think Pietrangelo is being a bit greedy if he's asking for that long term contract right now. He's a year or two away. His pay day is absolutely coming, big time. But he's not QUITE there yet. I hope he realizes that and a deal can get done.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:36 pm 
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WaukeeBlues wrote:
I don't have it posted but there was a phenomenal TSN video about the ongoing negotiations with Pietrangelo and they said (and I agree) that the Blues want a 2-3 year "prove it" contract of about $5 million a year before he "cashes in" with a long term, heavy, expensive deal. Personally I think Pietrangelo is being a bit greedy if he's asking for that long term contract right now. He's a year or two away. His pay day is absolutely coming, big time. But he's not QUITE there yet. I hope he realizes that and a deal can get done.


This. Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:37 pm 
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I have mixed feelings on it. I don't think he's earned a mega-deal yet. But, I'm more confident in him being a superstar than I ever was Johnson (and I was big on Johnson, well, you know what I mean). If we lock him up for 7-8 years and he develops as I expect, I think it'll be considered a bargain. Then again, if he doesn't, it could really bite us in the ass. It might be too big of a risk to take giving him a megadeal right now, but probably not a major one as the potential bargain goes a long way toward outweighing the potential downside.

If we do a prove it contract, I'd rather it not be more than 2 years. He should be able to prove whatever he needs to in two years and the earlier we lock him up long term, the cheaper it will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:23 am 
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cardsfan04 wrote:
I have mixed feelings on it. I don't think he's earned a mega-deal yet. But, I'm more confident in him being a superstar than I ever was Johnson (and I was big on Johnson, well, you know what I mean). If we lock him up for 7-8 years and he develops as I expect, I think it'll be considered a bargain. Then again, if he doesn't, it could really bite us in the ass. It might be too big of a risk to take giving him a megadeal right now, but probably not a major one as the potential bargain goes a long way toward outweighing the potential downside.

If we do a prove it contract, I'd rather it not be more than 2 years. He should be able to prove whatever he needs to in two years and the earlier we lock him up long term, the cheaper it will be.


And say the deal pays a standard amount per year or the deviation isn't that large in the deal. How can you really justify (from a management/GM perspective) paying Pietrangelo all-star dollars the first 1-2 years of the deal to develop? That's what these shorter terms contracts for our younger forwards have been for, and they've been willing to accept those deals with moderate raises each time they get closer and closer to be being great players. Pietrangelo does not appear to be as patient.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:41 am 
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Here's an out there idea, and I have no idea whatsoever how this would work with regards to the salary cap but anyway...

2 year contract: year 1: 5 mil, year 2: 6 mil. After the 2nd year, assuming various agreed upon threshholds are met (points, +/-, games played) a new contract automatically kicks in for 6 years, 8 mil per, plus a $3 mil bonus. If he doesn't reach the agreed upon threshholds, the new contract doesn't kick in and it's back to the drawing board. Effectively what happens is he gets $48 mil if proves he deserves it and 14 mil (if you add up the 1st two years plus the 3 mil bonus) for the 1st two years, again only if he's earned it. Otherwise he still gets 11 mil and the opportunity to re-negotiate.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:05 pm 
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I don't think they're allowed to structure them like that. why would Petro sign that anyway? Its not in his best interest.

Personally I do think they should just lock him up for 8 years. Why not? You can always trade him if for some reason things get weird.

8 years at 6 million per I would think would get the job done... By around year 4 of that deal, I can guarantee you that 6 million per year will seem like a total bargain. Slightly above average UFA dmen are commanding 5 million per year right now, and the cap is about to go up.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:22 pm 
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You can't necessarily trade a bad contract. "If things get weird" I assume means if Petro just flat out sucks and isn't worth the contract and then who the hell would want him? Given our organizational depth, Hakpanaa, Edmundson, Schmaltz, they could all come in very soon and be as valuable to the organization as Petro. One will replace Jackman, one will probably replace Polak, and if things keep going the way they're going, one will replace Petro. He'll agree to a "prove it" contract and then when that's up and he's proven it, he'll think back to this as a time where he was being jerked around (which is not the case, but perhaps the way he'll perceive it) and leave to play for the franking Blackhawks.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:53 pm 
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The Blues won't sign him to an untradable contract. He won't be a total disaster anyway, unless he starts having bad injury problems. If the worst case scenario is he keeps playing like he did for most of last year, he's still a pretty damn good defensman. I mean, hell, he's what, 23? Most dmen don't even start cracking the league until they are around that age and he's already had a few pretty good seasons under his belt.

Look at the scrubs who are getting 5 million per deals. The cap is about to skyrocket. Whatever they sign him for today is going to look like a total bargain in a few years.

And none of those guys are going to be anything close to Petro. Jackman is 32 and Polak is only 27. Most defensemen don't even really hit their stride until their late 20s.

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