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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:28 pm 
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not_a_wings_fan wrote:
I have said all along petro and his agent are correct in their numbers. The Blues need to come way up on their offers if this is going to happen.


Hell do we really even know what the numbers are?

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:57 pm 
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If Petro & his agent are asking for $7 million per, that would make him the 4th highest paid defenseman in the league next year.
I don't give a crap if he and his agent feel he will be worth that much over the length of a contract. That's not how it works in this town. The Blues aren't just going to give you a lucrative 8 year, $7 million a year contract until you prove you are worth it (they won't hand out an 8 year contract anyway...but whatever). Prove you're not an EJ or Brewer...then you get paid. The Blues (and every team out there for that matter) can't afford to be handing out $7+ million/per year contracts to players and hope they improve their play. That is how teams get into serious financial trouble...by signing long term, high salary contracts to guys that aren't proven and end up not panning out or not living up to the hype.

If Petro had a Norris caliber season last year, I could understand a bigger contract because he would have had a good season followed by back to back great seasons...but that didn't happen. He regressed kind of bad last year. So you know what Alex... if you want big money, you've simply got to play better.

Unless the Blues completely change gears on how they have done things over the past 8 years, no way in hell will they pony up $7 million next season for Petro...nor should they. If Petro wants to play next year, he's going to have to sign a short "prove it" contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:17 am 
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APOD wrote:
I just want to wear my Petro jersey this year without looking like that guy who still rocks his Brewer jersey :lol:


Oaklandblue wrote:
If he's that damn good, why hasn't other teams put up an offer sheet for him? If he's as amazing as we make him out to be, Chicago or Detroit or hell, even the Rangers would throw one at him. It's simple: He's not. Subban has the Norris. Pie doesn't and hasn't played like he deserves one save a brief moment.


I hate comparing but
2011
PK- 77 games played- 14G & 24A
Alex- 79 games played- 11G & 32A

2012
PK- 81 games played- 7G & 29A
Alex- 81 games played- 12G & 39A

2013
PK- 42 games played- 11G & 27A
Alex- 47 games played- 5G & 19A

So we are complaining about 2013 with him being under 15 points shy of being a Norris winner. Also PK got his contract before he was a Norris winner. Honestly I would like to see him get average of 5.5-6mil 5 years, then we can extend him and pay him more if we like what we see.


So you're saying PK played LESS games and did MORE than Pie? If you adjusted this to the length of a non-strike-shortened-regular season, you can see how bad Pie's last year was. If you add those Goals and Assists together, you suddenly see how badly PK trumps Pie. And Pie wants a big raise? Put it this way:

PK Subban, Norris-winning Defenseman: 2 years (2013-2014 and 2014-2015): 2.875 Million per year.

Alexander Pietrangelo: The LAST 2 years: (2011-2012 and 2012-2013): 3.166~ Million per year.

Pie's the next Brewer. You heard it here first.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:40 am 
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Oaklandblue wrote:
APOD wrote:
I just want to wear my Petro jersey this year without looking like that guy who still rocks his Brewer jersey :lol:


Oaklandblue wrote:
If he's that damn good, why hasn't other teams put up an offer sheet for him? If he's as amazing as we make him out to be, Chicago or Detroit or hell, even the Rangers would throw one at him. It's simple: He's not. Subban has the Norris. Pie doesn't and hasn't played like he deserves one save a brief moment.


I hate comparing but
2011
PK- 77 games played- 14G & 24A
Alex- 79 games played- 11G & 32A

2012
PK- 81 games played- 7G & 29A
Alex- 81 games played- 12G & 39A

2013
PK- 42 games played- 11G & 27A
Alex- 47 games played- 5G & 19A

So we are complaining about 2013 with him being under 15 points shy of being a Norris winner. Also PK got his contract before he was a Norris winner. Honestly I would like to see him get average of 5.5-6mil 5 years, then we can extend him and pay him more if we like what we see.


So you're saying PK played LESS games and did MORE than Pie? If you adjusted this to the length of a non-strike-shortened-regular season, you can see how bad Pie's last year was. If you add those Goals and Assists together, you suddenly see how badly PK trumps Pie. And Pie wants a big raise? Put it this way:

PK Subban, Norris-winning Defenseman: 2 years (2013-2014 and 2014-2015): 2.875 Million per year.

Alexander Pietrangelo: The LAST 2 years: (2011-2012 and 2012-2013): 3.166~ Million per year.

Pie's the next Brewer. You heard it here first.


And you also heard it here last. There's no way Pie = Brewer. No way.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:11 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:
APOD wrote:
I just want to wear my Petro jersey this year without looking like that guy who still rocks his Brewer jersey :lol:


Oaklandblue wrote:
If he's that damn good, why hasn't other teams put up an offer sheet for him? If he's as amazing as we make him out to be, Chicago or Detroit or hell, even the Rangers would throw one at him. It's simple: He's not. Subban has the Norris. Pie doesn't and hasn't played like he deserves one save a brief moment.


I hate comparing but
2011
PK- 77 games played- 14G & 24A
Alex- 79 games played- 11G & 32A

2012
PK- 81 games played- 7G & 29A
Alex- 81 games played- 12G & 39A

2013
PK- 42 games played- 11G & 27A
Alex- 47 games played- 5G & 19A

So we are complaining about 2013 with him being under 15 points shy of being a Norris winner. Also PK got his contract before he was a Norris winner. Honestly I would like to see him get average of 5.5-6mil 5 years, then we can extend him and pay him more if we like what we see.


So you're saying PK played LESS games and did MORE than Pie? If you adjusted this to the length of a non-strike-shortened-regular season, you can see how bad Pie's last year was. If you add those Goals and Assists together, you suddenly see how badly PK trumps Pie. And Pie wants a big raise? Put it this way:

PK Subban, Norris-winning Defenseman: 2 years (2013-2014 and 2014-2015): 2.875 Million per year.

Alexander Pietrangelo: The LAST 2 years: (2011-2012 and 2012-2013): 3.166~ Million per year.

Pie's the next Brewer. You heard it here first.


And you also heard it here last. There's no way Pie = Brewer. No way.


You know, I'll be fair, that may not be the case but there's absolutely no way Pie = 7m, 6m or 5m either.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:05 pm 
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kodos wrote:
PK Subban is one of the weakest Norris trophy winners I can ever recall.

They really need to split the trophy up into two awards, best offensive Dman and best all around Dman.

In my opinion Petro is worth the cash. Salaries are going to skyrocket soon and the Blues will regret a bridge contract. Worst case scenario for Petro is he levels off and just becomes a really really good dman. Even if we pay him 6.5 to 7 million a year, he'll only be overpaid by a million or two. What the hell is a million or two here or there? It's a third line depth guy.

The safer play is locking him up for a long time. Even if it costs a little more than they want.


True-ish, but you forgot Karlsson won one also (a player who has NEVER played defense at ALL)

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:17 pm 
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sseagle wrote:
kodos wrote:
PK Subban is one of the weakest Norris trophy winners I can ever recall.

They really need to split the trophy up into two awards, best offensive Dman and best all around Dman.

In my opinion Petro is worth the cash. Salaries are going to skyrocket soon and the Blues will regret a bridge contract. Worst case scenario for Petro is he levels off and just becomes a really really good dman. Even if we pay him 6.5 to 7 million a year, he'll only be overpaid by a million or two. What the hell is a million or two here or there? It's a third line depth guy.

The safer play is locking him up for a long time. Even if it costs a little more than they want.


True-ish, but you forgot Karlsson won one also (a player who has NEVER played defense at ALL)


Karlsson didn't even kill penalties that year either. How a defenseman can win the "best defenseman" award while not killing penalties is beyond me.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:22 pm 
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cprice12 wrote:
sseagle wrote:
kodos wrote:
PK Subban is one of the weakest Norris trophy winners I can ever recall.

They really need to split the trophy up into two awards, best offensive Dman and best all around Dman.

In my opinion Petro is worth the cash. Salaries are going to skyrocket soon and the Blues will regret a bridge contract. Worst case scenario for Petro is he levels off and just becomes a really really good dman. Even if we pay him 6.5 to 7 million a year, he'll only be overpaid by a million or two. What the hell is a million or two here or there? It's a third line depth guy.

The safer play is locking him up for a long time. Even if it costs a little more than they want.


True-ish, but you forgot Karlsson won one also (a player who has NEVER played defense at ALL)


Karlsson didn't even kill penalties that year either. How a defenseman can win the "best defenseman" award while not killing penalties is beyond me.


A: Eastern Conference Bias
B: Offensive Bias
C: TACOS!!!

Keep in mind, the Norris is for the "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position" but we forget Bobby Orr won it like a trillion times, and he BARELY had more PIMS than points.. They literally gave Lidstrom one in his WORST STATISTICAL year... -5? Norris??

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:44 pm 
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He doesn't hit. He doesn't fight. He's not mean with the stick. He has nothing superlative.

I used to really like him, but I'm off the bandwagon. He's a mediocre guy that everyone seems to think is the next Lidstrom.

He's got no edge whatsoever.

I predict he'll hang around for a few years as a serviceable guy, but never be great.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:09 am 
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Petro won't be reporting for camp :evil: :facepalm:

http://blues.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=681985&navid=DL|STL|home

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Package him up for a scorer and be done with this. If he's that great, fine. But I'd rather he be great on another team and us hoist the Cup in the meantime.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Oaklandblue wrote:
Package him up for a scorer and be done with this. If he's that great, fine. But I'd rather he be great on another team and us hoist the Cup in the meantime.

Kessel and Phaneuf? Am I high?

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:05 am 
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STLADOGG wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:
Package him up for a scorer and be done with this. If he's that great, fine. But I'd rather he be great on another team and us hoist the Cup in the meantime.

Kessel and Phaneuf? Am I high?


You're Hopeful. Not high.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:44 am 
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I don't think it makes sense to trade him just because they haven't agreed on terms yet. I don't much care for the way this is playing out, but I would rather have him on the team than not have him on the team. I think they'll agree to a contract before long, and when they do, it may not be ideal for either side, but it won't be a bad deal either.

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 Post subject: Re: Petro Negotiations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm 
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I've always disliked holdouts (and to a certain scope, arbitrations as well). As far as I'm concerned, if they can trade him for a young sniper or exceptional playmaker for our first line, I'm all for it. We are so deep at D, we can afford to loose him and in my honest opinion, Shatty will surpass him given time anyway. The signing of Bow this summer gave the organization all the leverage they needed not to overpay for his services. Let him sit until he agrees to a reasonable contract or trade his rights for a 1st line player (or a few 1st rnd. draft picks). Pies trade value has to be very very high right now.

As much as I like his skill, The Blues have to come out on top in this negotiation.

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