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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:43 am 
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STLADOGG wrote:
Personally, I trust Elliott more than I trust Allen.


But here's why I'm in the 'sell high' mode. Do you trust the early-Ottawa era Elliott? The 2011-2012 Jennings Trophy Elliott? Or the back half of 2013 Elliott? Or do you trust the late-Ottawa Elliott? The entire Colorado Avalanche era Elliott? Or the early 2013 Elliott? It's the same guy but how long can he sustain this level of play?

And I'm not crapping on your statement. I completely understand where you come with from that. Elliott has seen way more pucks at the NHL level than Allen has. But he has a cyclical history of good to bad to good to bad again.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:08 am 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:
Personally, I trust Elliott more than I trust Allen.


But here's why I'm in the 'sell high' mode. Do you trust the early-Ottawa era Elliott? The 2011-2012 Jennings Trophy Elliott? Or the back half of 2013 Elliott? Or do you trust the late-Ottawa Elliott? The entire Colorado Avalanche era Elliott? Or the early 2013 Elliott? It's the same guy but how long can he sustain this level of play?

And I'm not crapping on your statement. I completely understand where you come with from that. Elliott has seen way more pucks at the NHL level than Allen has. But he has a cyclical history of good to bad to good to bad again.

I don't think it is fair to judge what he was early on in his career, he is still young.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:33 am 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
Do you trust the early-Ottawa era Elliott?


I think this is were Allen is at, Elliot got introduced too early had a awesome first season based on excitment and adrenaline, then he had a collapse. And is now getting into his prime. Who is to say that wont happen to Allen too.

I would like to see Elliot play out the rest of the season here and hopefully win a cup with us. And maybe we are all wrong and Halak will be the one to go this summer?

Point is it is way to early to be trading away our goalies.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:06 pm 
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For what it's worth, the Rags waived Marty Biron today, will be in the market (presumably) for a backup goalie for Lundqvist.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Depends on the return IMO. I wouldn't trade him just to get something while we can. But, if we could package him with Rattie or Jaskin for an elite goal scorer, I think I would do it and hope either Halak stays healthy or Allen can handle NHL backup duties on a Cup contender.

One thing to consider though is that one of the benefits of having a tandem is that our starter will be more rested headed into the playoffs than most goalies. Assuming he's healthy, Halak would start more games with Allen than he will with Elliott. That will both increase the chances he gets hurt and make him "less fresh" headed into the playoffs.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:51 pm 
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When do you think Elliot will play his first this year? I'm guessing the Jets game on the 18th maybe we should wait and see how good he looks :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:52 pm 
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There's the sticking point. There are a lot of prospects I would absolutely not part with at this point in time. Jaskin and Rattie are the big two. Defensively, I wouldn't part with Edmundson, Hakanpaa, Schmaltz, you're looking at the near future with those 5 guys. Elliott will be gone after this season, any return is better than no return. I think that's the point.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Either Elliott or Halak will be gone. It's a not a forgone conclusion that it will be Elliott.

I don't think we should be banking on Allen turning into an NHL caliber goalie. He might and he might not. You just never know. It's the hardest position to predict. It's pretty much a complete crapshoot.

I'd be more than okay trading some prospects for a goal scorer. We're ass deep in "pretty good" forward prospects. They aren't all going to be making the team.

If we can move Elliot, plus a good roster player, plus a couple of prospects and high picks for, lets say, one of Edmonton's young stars... then I say you go for it.

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Last edited by kodos on Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Elliott and Max Gardiner for David Perron, let's doooooooooooooo it!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:14 pm 
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The more I think about it, the less it makes sense. The only Edmonton stars who would make enough of an impact on this team are Nugent-Hopkins and Hall... and Edmontons not moving those guys.

Yakupov is in the hotseat right now, but I think Hitchcock would eat that guy for breakfast.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:46 pm 
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I'd trade Halak, as I see Elliot as the better goalie and we could get so much more in return for Halak. Halak's trade value will be off the charts - he has his record in the Montreal and his recent shutout record with us. We'd get less for Elliot, even though they are about equal in skill. Elliot would have been the first to break our shutout record if he had played more games. He has much more shutouts-per-game than Halak.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:14 pm 
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I don't think Elliott has that much value. Getting a second round pick for him would probably be about the top end of his worth.

I think most teams probably feel like he's a byproduct of hitchcocks system.

I agree that he definitely is to some extent, but he's also good enough to be a starter somewhere in this league... He'd definitely be a big upgrade for a few teams and a nice insurance policy for some other teams with question marks around their starters.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Wasn't Jake Allen the best goaltender in the NHL this preseason even with the new pad restrictions?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:14 am 
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Trade. No. One.

Keep what we have, let it gel and win a Cup. Any talk about trading anyone is ridiculous and makes me wonder if Mike Keenan didn't hack a bunch of accounts and is trolling us.

Name one player we can trade and get something of benefit for that we won't miss. Name one.

I can't name one either. Stay the course. At the very least, let's see what happens tomorrow night against San Jose.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Why trade anybody right now? Unless you're getting some kind of crazy haul it makes no sense. Maybe towards the deadline you do something (especially if you don't plan on resigning him).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:30 pm 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:
Personally, I trust Elliott more than I trust Allen.


But here's why I'm in the 'sell high' mode. Do you trust the early-Ottawa era Elliott? The 2011-2012 Jennings Trophy Elliott? Or the back half of 2013 Elliott? Or do you trust the late-Ottawa Elliott? The entire Colorado Avalanche era Elliott? Or the early 2013 Elliott? It's the same guy but how long can he sustain this level of play?

And I'm not crapping on your statement. I completely understand where you come with from that. Elliott has seen way more pucks at the NHL level than Allen has. But he has a cyclical history of good to bad to good to bad again.


The only real time Elliott has sucked over a stretch during his 56 games here, was a five game stretch last season from Feb. 5th to March 3rd.
Five games.
Granted, he couldn't stop much of anything in those five games. But still...it was only five games. It's funny how that stretch has turned into "half a season" for some folks.
In Elliott's defense, the team was going through a slump and wasn't playing well at all in front of him...but still, he was bad during that stretch.

After coming back from Peoria, in his final 11 games, he allowed 1 goal or less in 9 of those 11 (3 shutouts in a row at one point). In the other two games he allowed 2 goals and 4 goals. He finished with a 2.28 GAA. Remarkable considering how that five game stretch completely thrashed his stats early in the year.

I honestly don't care how he played in Ottawa. Different team, different circumstances. Different time in his career. To me it doesn't even matter.
He is playing very well here, with this team in front of him. That's good enough for me.

Goaltenders aren't stellar every year...not most of them. They have up and down seasons.
Giguere comes to mind as one guy who has off and on had good years, great years and poor years and has won a cup in the middle of all of that.

Like Kodos said, you wouldn't get much in return for a backup goalie anyway. He is far too valuable to us to trade.

Like I said, Allen simply hasn't played enough games (nor has he been good enough, especially compared to Elliott's numbers...the guy he would be replacing) to be anointed the full time backup on team picked by some to win the cup...and when your #1 is injury prone? Forget about it.
Elliott isn't going anywhere...nor do I want him to.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:35 pm 
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I don't think Halak or Elliott will be traded...nor should they be.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Conditionally, I don’t think it is a good idea to trade Elliot at this time. The condition is obviously what type of value the Blues could get if they do move him. Anybody is tradable for the right package. I just do not think they can get enough to make it worthwhile. Others here have discussed his value as insurance against Halak getting hurt. Even if Allen is ready, the blues have proven how useful it is to have 2 good goalies. If Halak got hurt and Elliot was traded, who would be the backup? Allen is on a 2-way contract just for this year. The Blues want to give him one more year of full time work and seasoning in the AHL before next year. His contract turns into a 1-way next year when Elliot’s and Halak’s expire. He’ll be a full-time NHLer then. Don’t trade Elliot and rush Allen, just because he may be ready as a backup now.

Further there are major salary cap concerns involved in trading Elliot, and any move the Blues make as they are tight against the cap. He is signed for a modest $1.8M. The Blues only have $.8M in free cap space. By trading Elliot, Blues would have to bring up Allen and his $.8M. This would leave $1.8M in space for whoever the Blues get in return. Plus they wouldn’t want to spend it all as they need room to sign/ bring up someone in case of injury. I don’t think there is anyone that is on the trading block that will make an impact at that price point. I can’t think of many players on the teams in need of a goalie that would be available and worth throwing in an additional player to clear cap space either. The salary cap restrictions loosen near the trade deadline since a team is not paying the player his full yearly salary. Maybe make a move then after seeing how Halak is fairing over the season and Allen looks in the minors.

I only can think of one remote possibility for a trade now that would be cap-friendly, worth sacrificing goalie depth and is for a player that may be obtainable: Roy and Elliot to the Rangers for Stepan and a prospect. I was never happy with the Roy signing, and think Stepan is an upgrade. Stepan got strong-armed into a value contract, and there seemed to be some animosity between him and NY management. He is young with good upside. He would be good on a line with Tarasenko and Schwartz for a long time. Still despite any lingering bad blood in NY, I just don’t see them letting him go for a couple of one year contracts to back-up Lundqvist. So unless something like that happens, its best to stay the course and re-evaluate come the trade deadline.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:57 pm 
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If last night didn't make you think twice on this, I don't know what will. Goalies are fickle creatures. Halak had an off game last night and let in a couple he probably should have had, yet Elliott came in and didn't light the world on fire either. Obviously it's 1 game. The previous 4 before that Halak looked great. I'm neither sold nor worried about either of them. That's why you keep them both, unless there is something going on in the background that me, the casual fan, doesn't see about either of them.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:12 am 
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Goaltending didn't lose that game. What lost that game affected the goaltending. HOW many power plays did the Sharks roll with?

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