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 Post subject: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:32 am 
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I'm sorry, there is absolutely no way in hell anyone's going to tell me that this joker is a better netminder than Halak or Elliott. No way. I know I've gone on record for the past few years noting how bad Halak is and how we should throw him out the door for a bag of pucks, but Halak is better than Miller, end of story. We don't see it much because Jaro keeps getting hurt. Sometimes it's his body, other times I think it's his pride, but I'd rather have that than getting hurt in the pocketbook. Besides our troubles aren't at goal, they're in fine tuning our game. Plus, we got Jake Allen ready to roll and his AHL stats puts Miller's NHL stats to shame, and that says alot right there.

Okay, rant over. How do yall feel about this thirty-something year old goalie wearing the Note?

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:00 am 
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He is good, just not as good as his contract right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:35 am 
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Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:07 am 
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I am not all that impressed with Miller either. I know he is having a stellar year for a terrible team, but it's also a contract year.

We may be able to milk that contract year thing, but I don't see him as a solution past one year. As such, I don't think you make the trade.

Last year we traded for a couple of guys and then were able to sign them. Those were absolutely amazing trades that are still paying us dividends.

I don't know what the answer is, but I would be comfortable finding a rental wing with a track record of 30+ goals in multiple seasons...but you know, so would every other playoff contender.

My fear is that this team is giving max effort right now and doesn't have another gear for the post-season. It's been our MO for years.

tl;dr: I am happy if they stand pat in net.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:22 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?



Better question: How can anyone here stand to spend so much on a short-term, OLD netminder and feel ok about that, especially if we've got depth in goal?

You don't trade Jaroslav Halak for a pricey 33-year old goaltender, you craft him into a trade for a top six Center. That's what we need and ALL that we need.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Here is the dilemma for me and my opinion...
I'd prefer Elliott be the #1 and Halak back him up come playoff time. But that won't happen if Halak is healthy. If Halak is healthy and is playing at the level he has this season, he'll be the #1 even though Elliott has better numbers and has consistently been the better goalie since he signed here a few years ago.
So....
I'd like to see Halak moved for Miller since Miller would be an upgrade. I'd be more comfortable with Miller/Elliott than Halak/Elliott.

It's a shame that it would have to come to that, because it would be nice to move Halak in a package deal to get a scoring forward. That is what I want them to do first and foremost is upgrade the offense even more. I know they are the top scoring team in the league, but if we see Quick again in the playoffs, I want as much firepower as we can get.

I don't get why so many folks are so in love with Allen. His numbers here last year were mediocre at best. The only reason folks were so high on him was because we were winning with him in net. The team played better with him in net...it had little to do with Allen's play, but he was decent...just not great like people seem to think he was. Go look at his numbers last year. They aren't as good as you probably think they were.

I'm not saying Allen isn't the goalie of the future...that is the hope...but he probably needs to spend at least a couple years as a backup here before he is given #1 status.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Miller is 34, more expensive, and not worth whatever we have to give up to get him. His performance is not so much better than the Jaro/Elliott combo that it would warrant sending draft picks, prospects, or roster players for him. That's what it comes down to, for me.

We've got a really good thing going right now. I personally would like to see a combo of Jaro/Elliott in the playoffs, because we've actually never seen that for more than a few games. Jaro has been hurt two years running, so Elliott's been the guy. The strength of our goaltending is that, while they're both great on their own, having one to turn to when the other falters has been part of our success the last 3 seasons. It's a much needed spark and the performance on the ice typically doesn't slip when we have to turn to the 'backup.' I'm not saying Elliott has been terrible in the playoffs the last two years, but it would have been nice to see what would happen if we could turn to Jaro for that spark in a desperate situation.

Miller has been an elite goalie in the past, but he's not going to reach those heights again most likely. Jaro and Elliott are both 28. They're in their prime. I say stick with the combo and don't sacrifice any of the roster/prospects/picks you've built up. I think this team, as it is currently, is built for a Cup run. They just have to put the results on the ice.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Oaklandblue wrote:
You don't trade Jaroslav Halak for a pricey, 33-year old goaltender, you craft him into a trade for a top six Center. That's what we need and ALL that we need.


You really think we need a center more than a wing?

And who would you like to see us go after - that's realistically available without gutting the current roster?

I feel like we need a wing with Perron's hands and skills but Reaves' heart, grit, and drive instead of the crybaby-bitch, mush melon, prima donna act we got from Perron. Of course, there aren't many of those available for a reasonable price atm.

Trivia=Three years ago today, Reaves netted his first NHL goal against the Ducks.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:29 pm 
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So I went on HF Boards and read a few pages of the Halak for Miller thread. The amount of condescending and self righteous commenting is mind-boggling. Not my cup of tea. They can knock themselves the (Frank) out with that queen princess shit.

As for the trade, I think a few years back Miller was one of the top goalies. It's hard to say this year or going forward. On one hand, 33 is not that old for a goalie, on the other at 34 he's clearly over the top even if he may have one or two good years in him. Plus, I'm not ok with the potential cost, especially with what the Blues had spent on RFAs this year and will have to spend in the off-season (Schwartz, Sobotka, Berglund).

Also, the problem in the last year's playoff run was not so much goaltending as the Blues' lack of scoring. I'll go into it with Halak/Elliot tandem no problem, given that we can put 3 or more goals in the opposing net.


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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:43 pm 
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This is the first year in a long time where at the trade deadline, the best move is to truly do nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:21 am 
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not_a_wings_fan wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:
You don't trade Jaroslav Halak for a pricey, 33-year old goaltender, you craft him into a trade for a top six Center. That's what we need and ALL that we need.


You really think we need a center more than a wing?

And who would you like to see us go after - that's realistically available without gutting the current roster?

I feel like we need a wing with Perron's hands and skills but Reaves' heart, grit, and drive instead of the crybaby-bitch, mush melon, prima donna act we got from Perron. Of course, there aren't many of those available for a reasonable price atm.

Trivia=Three years ago today, Reaves netted his first NHL goal against the Ducks.


I really think that, if we're going to move Halak, it won't be for another netminder.

I said another center because with exception, we have some pretty small centers - Roy and Sobotka comes to mind and Bergy, who doesn't play to his size. A center with grit who does and can score and setup goals would add depth and having another center or a Center/Wing, considering we're short on that position, would be about the only real position that we should consider filling, if we can do it without blowing up anything.

Would I trade out for a winger? Well, it'd depend. If we agree that Halak = Miller, then we agree that we're talking about a top six player because if we traded for Miller, the expectation is that Miller would be the Starter and Ells would back him up. Under those conditions, we'd have to get back a top six, winger or center, or, unless a pick or two would be necessary to seal it, I simply wouldn't deal.

Halak, to this point this season, has been really good and has done nothing to consider a trade. It's obvious he is trying to make a statement with his play and I'd rather we benefitted from his stepped-up performance.

If we're seeking an upgrade, based on what's out there, what's avaliable and the team stance that the team is going to stay setup as it is, our guy is Jake Allen.

So no deal.

And no, I would not trade Halak.

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Last edited by Oaklandblue on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:12 am 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
Miller is 34, more expensive, and not worth whatever we have to give up to get him. His performance is not so much better than the Jaro/Elliott combo that it would warrant sending draft picks, prospects, or roster players for him. That's what it comes down to, for me.

We've got a really good thing going right now. I personally would like to see a combo of Jaro/Elliott in the playoffs, because we've actually never seen that for more than a few games. Jaro has been hurt two years running, so Elliott's been the guy. The strength of our goaltending is that, while they're both great on their own, having one to turn to when the other falters has been part of our success the last 3 seasons. It's a much needed spark and the performance on the ice typically doesn't slip when we have to turn to the 'backup.' I'm not saying Elliott has been terrible in the playoffs the last two years, but it would have been nice to see what would happen if we could turn to Jaro for that spark in a desperate situation.

Miller has been an elite goalie in the past, but he's not going to reach those heights again most likely. Jaro and Elliott are both 28. They're in their prime. I say stick with the combo and don't sacrifice any of the roster/prospects/picks you've built up. I think this team, as it is currently, is built for a Cup run. They just have to put the results on the ice.


:plusplus: :plusplus: :plusplus:

Why would we want to do ANYTHING to our goaltending tandem right now? We are currently 3rd in the League for Goals Allowed with 99. The only teams ahead of us are LA with 96 and Boston with 98. Let's not go all Kansas City Royals and trade away our top-performing players while they're in the middle of kicking ass for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:29 am 
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gaijin wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
Miller is 34, more expensive, and not worth whatever we have to give up to get him. His performance is not so much better than the Jaro/Elliott combo that it would warrant sending draft picks, prospects, or roster players for him. That's what it comes down to, for me.

We've got a really good thing going right now. I personally would like to see a combo of Jaro/Elliott in the playoffs, because we've actually never seen that for more than a few games. Jaro has been hurt two years running, so Elliott's been the guy. The strength of our goaltending is that, while they're both great on their own, having one to turn to when the other falters has been part of our success the last 3 seasons. It's a much needed spark and the performance on the ice typically doesn't slip when we have to turn to the 'backup.' I'm not saying Elliott has been terrible in the playoffs the last two years, but it would have been nice to see what would happen if we could turn to Jaro for that spark in a desperate situation.

Miller has been an elite goalie in the past, but he's not going to reach those heights again most likely. Jaro and Elliott are both 28. They're in their prime. I say stick with the combo and don't sacrifice any of the roster/prospects/picks you've built up. I think this team, as it is currently, is built for a Cup run. They just have to put the results on the ice.


:plusplus: :plusplus: :plusplus:

Why would we want to do ANYTHING to our goaltending tandem right now? We are currently 3rd in the League for Goals Allowed with 99. The only teams ahead of us are LA with 96 and Boston with 98. Let's not go all Kansas City Royals and trade away our top-performing players while they're in the middle of kicking ass for us.


It sounds awful Blues-ish too... remember us sending most of our good players for Garth Butcher? Vancouver made the finals that year :facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:49 pm 
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sseagle wrote:
gaijin wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
Miller is 34, more expensive, and not worth whatever we have to give up to get him. His performance is not so much better than the Jaro/Elliott combo that it would warrant sending draft picks, prospects, or roster players for him. That's what it comes down to, for me.

We've got a really good thing going right now. I personally would like to see a combo of Jaro/Elliott in the playoffs, because we've actually never seen that for more than a few games. Jaro has been hurt two years running, so Elliott's been the guy. The strength of our goaltending is that, while they're both great on their own, having one to turn to when the other falters has been part of our success the last 3 seasons. It's a much needed spark and the performance on the ice typically doesn't slip when we have to turn to the 'backup.' I'm not saying Elliott has been terrible in the playoffs the last two years, but it would have been nice to see what would happen if we could turn to Jaro for that spark in a desperate situation.

Miller has been an elite goalie in the past, but he's not going to reach those heights again most likely. Jaro and Elliott are both 28. They're in their prime. I say stick with the combo and don't sacrifice any of the roster/prospects/picks you've built up. I think this team, as it is currently, is built for a Cup run. They just have to put the results on the ice.


:plusplus: :plusplus: :plusplus:

Why would we want to do ANYTHING to our goaltending tandem right now? We are currently 3rd in the League for Goals Allowed with 99. The only teams ahead of us are LA with 96 and Boston with 98. Let's not go all Kansas City Royals and trade away our top-performing players while they're in the middle of kicking ass for us.


It sounds awful Blues-ish too... remember us sending most of our good players for Garth Butcher? Vancouver made the finals that year :facepalm:


Momesso, Courtnall, Dirk & Ronning weren't our best players. But they were key components of that team.
That trade was all Sutter's fault. He wanted a tough, stay at home D-man ...but instead we got Garth "Overrated" Butcher & F-ing Dan "Useless" Quinn.
God I hated Quinn.
However...we did win our final 7 games to end the reg. season that year...so the trade looked good at first...and then the playoffs happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.


What if Ben Bishop was actually our goalie of the future, and we let him go because we had Halak and Elliot?

Anyone else feel like we had future potential with Bishop? What if Bishop ends up being a top-tier goalie?

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.


What if Ben Bishop was actually our goalie of the future, and we let him go because we had Halak and Elliot?

Anyone else feel like we had future potential with Bishop? What if Bishop ends up being a top-tier goalie?

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.


What if Ben Bishop was actually our goalie of the future, and we let him go because we had Halak and Elliot?

Anyone else feel like we had future potential with Bishop? What if Bishop ends up being a top-tier goalie?

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.


What if Ben Bishop was actually our goalie of the future, and we let him go because we had Halak and Elliot?

Anyone else feel like we had future potential with Bishop? What if Bishop ends up being a top-tier goalie?

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.


What if Ben Bishop was actually our goalie of the future, and we let him go because we had Halak and Elliot?

Anyone else feel like we had future potential with Bishop? What if Bishop ends up being a top-tier goalie?

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 Post subject: Re: Screw Miller
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:20 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Miller may not be that much of an upgrade over Halak, but let's not get carried away saying Halak is the second coming. How can we praise Jaro, who is partly a product of a very good defensive team but crucify Roman Turek who was also the product of a very good defensive team?

Allen is the goalie of the future. The future is next year. They said just as much by giving him the type of contract they gave him. Trading for Miller, which could be done on the cheap considering there's not a huge market for a rental goalie, and then riding him through the playoffs and letting him explore free agency at the end of the season, is not a terrible idea.

Halak and a conditional pick for Miller and a conditional pick. The conditional pick to the Sabres becomes a later round pick when Miller signs elsewhere an becomes not a pick at all if, for some reason, he signs back with Buffalo. The conditional pick to the Blues happens only if they don't win The Cup.


What if Ben Bishop was actually our goalie of the future, and we let him go because we had Halak and Elliot?

Anyone else feel like we had future potential with Bishop? What if Bishop ends up being a top-tier goalie?

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