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 Post subject: Thoughts on Ryan Miller?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Now that we've had him for a decent strech of games, what is your opinion on Miller? Was he worth the trade? Is he a solid upgrade over Halak?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:36 pm 
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TheoSqua wrote:
Now that we've had him for a decent strech of games, what is your opinion on Miller? Was he worth the trade? Is he a solid upgrade over Halak?


I'm still cool with ditching Halak in favor of Miller. But Miller needs to be better. We need stanley cup caliber goaltending, and we simply haven't gotten it the past few games.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:37 pm 
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The thought of losing two 1st round picks for Miller and Ott makes me a little nauseated now.

I still think he is a big improvement over Halak (complete headcase of the Legace variety), but now that we have a more battle proven goalie, it's becoming more and more clear that it wasn't our actual problem.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Rocketpop wrote:
The thought of losing two 1st round picks for Miller and Ott makes me a little nauseated now.

I still think he is a big improvement over Halak (complete headcase of the Legace variety), but now that we have a more battle proven goalie, it's becoming more and more clear that it wasn't our actual problem.


Considering the Blues get their 2nd round pick in return for the other 1st, it reallydoesn't seem like a terrible condition to kick in.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:33 pm 
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TheoSqua wrote:
Rocketpop wrote:
The thought of losing two 1st round picks for Miller and Ott makes me a little nauseated now.

I still think he is a big improvement over Halak (complete headcase of the Legace variety), but now that we have a more battle proven goalie, it's becoming more and more clear that it wasn't our actual problem.


Considering the Blues get their 2nd round pick in return for the other 1st, it reallydoesn't seem like a terrible condition to kick in.

Exactly, their 2nd is the 31st pick in the draft.
You guys need to stop bitching.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:51 pm 
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I still like it. If we don't win a Cup and he and Ott walk, it will mean that it didn't work out. But, I still am happy that the front office decided to go for it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:30 pm 
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Like this year's version of the Blues, the trade's value will be determined in the playoffs.

At the time, I was fairly outspoken against the trade and remain so today. I hope Miller proves me wrong.
It may be that Hitch had lost faith in Halak and some sort of trade for a goalie had to happen. But we gave up alot of tradeable assets to 'improve' two areas that weren't weaknesses.

The stats indicate that, as I suggested, Miller has basically been a more expensive version of Halak since joining the Blues. His save percentage as a Blue is actually somewhat worse that what Halak was putting up.

If the Blues can get back on track, win the division, win their first round series and hit round 2 with full health, they can still be a team that can go deep in the playoffs. They also look fully capable of blowing the division title, turtling against the Hawks, and be playing golf by earth day.

As for bringing Miller back, Miller either convinces us with his play in the playoffs that he's worth spending elite goalie money on to keep or he doesn't. The trade conditions aren't that bad.
They appear to be if x,y, or z happens, Buffalo gets our 1st this year and our 3rd in 2016 and we get the Wild's 2nd round pick this year (currently #52 overall) and our own 3rd round pick from this year back.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:33 pm 
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I think the front office had to make a move right now in terms of goaltending whether they liked it or not to try and establish a future in that position.

At the end of the post season, both Halak and Elliott would be out of contract and all we would have is Jake Allen. We could bring up Bings, but he's aways away from being close to ready. We all agree that Jake would fall into a backup role, but without a starter, he'd be the starter.

Given that Army has a tendency to be on the frugal side, trading for Ryan Miller is a stroke of genuis: Take a guy with a solid, hard work ethic and a calm demeanor who has toiled his entire career on a poor team at the bottom rungs of the league and give him a taste of what it's like to be near the top of the rung and create relationships with the players and team around him, a team that's never won the Cup and is obviously a few steps from making it all the way. Would he resign? If we brought out six million a year, I think the answer is yes.

As it stood, there was honestly no way we could trade for a solid scorer without giving up vital pieces of our puzzle and if we did, we'd still have to deal with the goaltending situation, which is actually much dire than our scoring situation. We have scorers who are signed up for the next few years, so there's a window there. Goaltending, there simply wasn't. We have to take a chance either way and we chose to pick Miller over Halak. Cost us a few picks and picked up Ott, who needs to stop agitating. He sets up some great passes for shot chances and the other players don't follow through.

I don't see our scoring situation changing that much more or less in the off-season. In fact, our scoring is pretty decent, it's our PP that's been sucking hard as of late imho.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Oaklandblue wrote:
I think the front office had to make a move right now in terms of goaltending whether they liked it or not to try and establish a future in that position.

At the end of the post season, both Halak and Elliott would be out of contract and all we would have is Jake Allen. We could bring up Bings, but he's aways away from being close to ready. We all agree that Jake would fall into a backup role, but without a starter, he'd be the starter.

Given that Army has a tendency to be on the frugal side, trading for Ryan Miller is a stroke of genuis: Take a guy with a solid, hard work ethic and a calm demeanor who has toiled his entire career on a poor team at the bottom rungs of the league and give him a taste of what it's like to be near the top of the rung and create relationships with the players and team around him, a team that's never won the Cup and is obviously a few steps from making it all the way. Would he resign? If we brought out six million a year, I think the answer is yes.

As it stood, there was honestly no way we could trade for a solid scorer without giving up vital pieces of our puzzle and if we did, we'd still have to deal with the goaltending situation, which is actually much dire than our scoring situation. We have scorers who are signed up for the next few years, so there's a window there. Goaltending, there simply wasn't. We have to take a chance either way and we chose to pick Miller over Halak. Cost us a few picks and picked up Ott, who needs to stop agitating. He sets up some great passes for shot chances and the other players don't follow through.

I don't see our scoring situation changing that much more or less in the off-season. In fact, our scoring is pretty decent, it's our PP that's been sucking hard as of late imho.


Not sure how dealing for a different UFA fixes the issue of having 2 UFA goalies at the NHL level or establishes a future for us at the position. If we lose in the first round, I'd see us bringing back Elliott to pair with Allen, not spending $6 million a year on Miller. Now if he plays us to the conference or cup finals, then that's another thing entirely.

As for not being able to trade for a scorer, we dealt away Chris Stewart, William Carrier, and a 1st Round Pick (2015) which seems like more than was dealt for Moulson (5-6-11 +6 in 18 games), Gaborik (3-9-12 +3 in 17 games), or Vanek (6-9-15 +8 in 16 games post deadline). Unclear what it would have taken to land Kesler who wasn't dealt or if we could have landed Callahan before St Louis made his trade request.

This would leave us with the same goalie situation this offseason. An offseason with many free agent options in goal including Jonas Hiller and Ryan Miller (if still a Sabre).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Obviously, we aren't going to make a decision until we see how the playoffs go. But if you forced me to make a decision right now, I wouldn't resign him. He isn't playing worth the money that he's going to demand.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:36 pm 
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buh bye


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:41 pm 
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There is another angle here.

The blues traded for a guy who is supposed to be among the best and is also in a contract year. History says this guy shines so as to get paid.

By all accounts, miller played well on a shitty team. Only thing missing for epic payday is playoff resume.

BUT if it goes poorly, miller has zero excuses and he is fucked on his next contract.

I wonder if he's playing scared atm.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:38 am 
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not_a_wings_fan wrote:
There is another angle here.

The blues traded for a guy who is supposed to be among the best and is also in a contract year. History says this guy shines so as to get paid.

By all accounts, miller played well on a shitty team. Only thing missing for epic payday is playoff resume.

BUT if it goes poorly, miller has zero excuses and he is (Frank) on his next contract.

I wonder if he's playing scared atm.


Well right now I think everyone on our roster is. If anything maybe we're gripping the sticks a little too tightly. Very little has gone right for this team on the scoreboard (i.e. where it matters) since this skid started.

Compare that to the game we beat the Penguins 1-0 by scoring late in the 3rd period of a game a few weeks back. We were getting rocked a bit but hung in there, had some good chances and I honest to God think the players "felt" that something was going to fall. I know I did. Because I had confidence and had seen them on a tear. They just had the sense that something was going to go their way and it did. Now it's like since we're constantly playing from behind it's an "oh sh!t oh sh!t" mentality going on. I don't know. Just my two cents.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:48 am 
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Miller hasn't been as great as I thought, but he also is playing in front of a different team than Halak did most of the year. This is a team that's not playing their game. It's a team missing Senko, Steen, Backes, and Oshie all at certain points during Miller's run here. But I thought he'd be stealing some saves and some games and he's really not. Overall though, he's a better option than Halak, for sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:35 am 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
Miller hasn't been as great as I thought, but he also is playing in front of a different team than Halak did most of the year. This is a team that's not playing their game. It's a team missing Senko, Steen, Backes, and Oshie all at certain points during Miller's run here. But I thought he'd be stealing some saves and some games and he's really not. Overall though, he's a better option than Halak, for sure.


Last night they played fine in front of him, Miller needs to make a couple more of those saves ...and offensively they peppered Minnesota and outplayed them badly...they just couldn't get enough pucks over the goal line.

The ONLY issue I had with the way they played last night, was Miller. If Miller is playing the way he is supposed to, we win that game. He needs to be better, and he also needs to sit next game vs. Dallas. We need to win our last two and hope Colorado loses one of their last two.

I'd be amped up for a series vs. Chicago if it pans out that way...but make no mistake, the Blues need to play the Wild or Stars.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:12 am 
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I honestly haven't followed the Blues much this year so this is a legitimate question: did Halak really play poorly enough to warrant getting traded?

Because honestly, Miller hasn't been the same goalie that people think of him as in a few years now. Yes, he had a high save percentage in Buffalo, but he was getting hammered with shots from every side and Buffalo's scorekeeper even going back to the Hasek days has always overcounted shots. He faced on average 35.3 shots against per game in Buffalo, so his .923 still worked out to 2.72 GAA. In St Louis he's only seeing 24.3 shots per game and his GAA has only dropped to 2.41.

If he were maintaining the save percentage that he had in Buffalo with you guys, he'd be at around a 1.88 GAA. Contrast that with Halak who had a .917 save percentage and 2.23 GAA while playing here. Like I said, I haven't caught very many Blues games at all this year so all I can go on are the numbers, but was there some underlying reason to send Halak out or was it just management having an itchy trigger finger?

All in all, I'm not trying to say Miller's not a good goalie, but I really do think that Buffalo has a history of touting their goalies because in the Hasek days that was all they had and I really didn't think Halak did that poorly for you guys.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:15 am 
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I don't think it was a matter of Halak playing poorly and needing an upgrade. Rather, I think it was a matter of the Blues having a really solid roster up and down and thinking going from decent goaltending to great goaltending could be the last piece in place to win the Cup. It hasn't worked out that way thus far, but hopefully Miller shows up in the playoffs. He has not met expectations yet, but I do think he's been better than Halak, slightly.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:35 am 
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cardsfan04 wrote:
I don't think it was a matter of Halak playing poorly and needing an upgrade. Rather, I think it was a matter of the Blues having a really solid roster up and down and thinking going from decent goaltending to great goaltending could be the last piece in place to win the Cup. It hasn't worked out that way thus far, but hopefully Miller shows up in the playoffs. He has not met expectations yet, but I do think he's been better than Halak, slightly.


When Miller's on, he's ridiculous, but he hasn't shown much more than flashes of that in a little while. I really hope he can pull that form back because he does possess the ability to carry a team for long stretches or at least has shown himself to be capable of it in the past. Part of his problem IMO has always been mental though. He's always been a bit of a headcase. If he can pull himself together and understand that this is probably his best shot in his career at a Cup, there could be some great times. Hope he can pull it together.

Realistically, this is the best team Miller's probably ever had in front of him, but I always think it's real risky to make a mid-season trade of starting goalies because every goalie plays differently with their defense and it takes time to get them sync'ed up which can affect everything from back to front. To me it's really important to once you've cast the stone on which goalie you're going with and you've been successful with them (as the Blues were at the point of the trade), the finishing parts should be coming off your bench, not in net. A scorer or another defenseman, those are guys who can figure out the system quickly because they're adjusting to 20 other people. But a goalie plays the way a goalie plays and the defense has to adjust to him which means the whole team needs to make a sudden adjustment and that's just not something that you do if you can avoid it mid-season.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:53 am 
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I had a short conversation with a guy on Twitter.
He said Miller could go down as the worst acquisition in Blues history. :lol:

Discuss.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:48 am 
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cprice12 wrote:
I had a short conversation with a guy on Twitter.
He said Miller could go down as the worst acquisition in Blues history. :lol:

Discuss.


I guess he's only been a Blues fan since 2005. Brewer/Pronger trade still makes me sick.

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