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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:13 pm 
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No additional analysis and no feasible way to sugar coat any of this. It flat out sucks. Sobotka is a battler and all heart; hard to replace if you've ever watched the guy play a shift. A great penalty killer and one of the best face off men in the NHL. Ott will lay a big hit once in awhile and chirp his ass off. That's it. At least they gave Berglund a well deserved payday.... :facepalm:

A true day wrecker this news is.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:16 pm 
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ecbm wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
I don't see the Ott signing as horrible.


I've seen this a few times now. Can anyone back it up with anything other than vague platitudes and assertions of opinion? Anything statistical? Anything about comparable players? McClement signed for $1M for one year in Carolina. You wouldn't rather have him? Or Richards at $2M? (By the way-we could have signed Vanek for $200K more per year than we'll give Berglund and Ott.) Ott is terrible. Signing him reeks of desperation. He's a giveaway machine who takes lots of penalties and never scores. He's no better on faceoffs than Sobotka. Actually, Sobotka was even 8% better at that last season! So great, we'll have a fourth line of Ott-Lapierre-Reaves who will make great money, take penalties and look mean to the opposition but do absolutely nothing else.

Because I don't get it. Apparently, signing the guy who was statistically the worst player in the league last year after we acquired him (-12? WTF?) at above market rate isn't that bad. But Sobotka wanting to make more money than Berglund is greedy. Huh?


I would have much rather had Sobotka than Ott. But, I think Ott is better than his performance after the trade last year suggests. Not a whole lot to back it up. Just my opinion. That doesn't mean I love having Ott back. I don't. I just don't think the sky is falling either.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:22 pm 
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Wonder if Boat's knee injury and concussion at the Worlds factored into these decisions. It probably did.

I am going to ask the one most important question that nobody seems to be asking:

...

...

...

How will the Boat area be remembered?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Sobotka was never going to settle for a 3-4 line center role, and with Lehtera and Stastny coming in as the 1-2 centers, there was no room for him.


I think you're right. Vladi was probably insulted when the Blues told him they assume Lehtera (0 NHL minutes) is ahead of him on the depth chart and they won't pay him as much as Berglund after a poor season on a bridge contract. He did enough to compete for 2C. Seen lots of comments knocking Sobotka's loyalty (laughable concept in pro sports) but apparently that's not a two-way street. It's like some just rationalize anything the team does...

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Berglund and Ott can be the 3-4 line centers, with Bumps competing with Lindstrom for the #3 spot.


Is that an appetizing set up? Lindstrom has flopped on multiple NHL teams. Berglund, by the way, has destroyed the usefulness of the bridge contract. Apparently you can do terrible on it, finish the season injured and still get a big pay raise. He'll get $3.6M to maybe play 3C but Sobotka, who has been clearly better, doesn't merit $4M for the same role. This despite the fact that signing him would save us $2.6M on Ott. Again, and I'm saying this a lot today, huh?

I can't make any sense at all of what the front office is doing. I really don't know if the team is any better, even on paper. If they want grit, why trade Polak for a smaller, less physical player coming off surgery? If they want improved center depth and scoring, why take a gamble on Lehtera and let Sobotka walk over less than $1M per in a league where Pouliot and Bolland get $4M/$5.5M per for 4/5 years? Also, with all this roster turnover since last trade deadline, will the team need time to gel? I don't get this. I have no particular confidence in the Blues' ability to compete with CHI/LA/ANA next season more effectively than the last two. It all just looks like a gamble.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:26 pm 
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drwoland wrote:
How will the Boat area be remembered?


Fondly.
Warmly.
With tears.
With smiles.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:33 pm 
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cardsfan04 wrote:
I think Ott is better than his performance after the trade last year suggests. Not a whole lot to back it up. Just my opinion.


Fair enough. I appreciate honesty. I do suggest you consider performance measures when evaluating players' potential usefulness. In my opinion though, Ott got a massive F- even just on the eye test last season. Remember the claims that his bad +/- was down to playing for Buffalo? He was actually worse here.

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I just don't think the sky is falling either.


Again, fair enough. I've just gone from draft day & free agent day and feeling confident we've improved the team to now wondering if we have. The Blues need to improve, and now. The window for this core has 2/3 seasons left, max.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:36 pm 
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How we can give Berglund 3.7 and not give Boat 4 (an overpayment for sure, but keep the better player for $300k) is beyond me.

How we can give anything over a mill for Ott (and why we resigned him at all) is waaaaaaaay beyond me.

This is a bad hockey day.

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Last edited by JCShutout on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:37 pm 
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This is JR's response in his chat that's going on right now to a question about the Blues giving Sobotka $4 mil/year.

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I expected this question and I'm glad you asked it: A lot of people are wondering about Armstrong playing hardball and losing a game of chicken. If Sobotka follows through with these intentions and the Blues lose him, perhaps you could make that claim. However, as Armstrong said in his conference call today, he can't pay a player more based on the threat of leaving for the KHL. There's a salary structure in the NHL and the Blues don't believe that Sobotka is a $4 million player, so under no circumstances were they going to pay him that. Say what you want to say about Berglund, but he's put up 20-goal seasons in this league. The Blues could have bucked up, yes, and probably kept Sobotka. But Armstrong said they were going to be very fair without overpaying, and they believed that $4 million per year was overpaying.


I'm not happy with how today went. But, that's about as reasonable of an answer as could be expected. If they don't think Sobotka is worth $4 mil per year, the threat of going to the KHL shouldn't change that. If they start overpaying out of fear, it will start a slippery slope, especially with Tarasenko due a big raise in the not so distant future.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:42 pm 
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ecbm wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
I think Ott is better than his performance after the trade last year suggests. Not a whole lot to back it up. Just my opinion.


Fair enough. I appreciate honesty. I do suggest you consider performance measures when evaluating players' potential usefulness. In my opinion though, Ott got a massive F- even just on the eye test last season. Remember the claims that his bad +/- was down to playing for Buffalo? He was actually worse here.

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I just don't think the sky is falling either.


Again, fair enough. I've just gone from draft day & free agent day and feeling confident we've improved the team to now wondering if we have. The Blues need to improve, and now. The window for this core has 2/3 seasons left, max.


I don't have a firm grasp on hockey metrics. It doesn't surprise me that Ott doesn't rank favorably with them though. Hopefully he doesn't cost us. I don't think he will either. My guess is that he'll be a frequent scratch. If that's the case, it begs the question of why we're paying $2.6 mil for somebody outside of the top 12, but we'll see how it pans out. Losing Sobotka is a big blow for sure. He was a fringe top 6 guy that was likely to be playing on the 3rd or 4th line. But, I still like our forward depth. If Lehtera and Lindstrom flop, it will magnify this for sure.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:47 pm 
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I think my overall assessment is "Classic Blues."

We took a step forward by upgrading a center in Stastny and then promptly took two steps back in signing ott and missing boat.

Ducking awesome.

Maybe we can give $5 million per over seven years to Brodeur too?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Sucks we lost Boat and I doubt its due to signing Ott, now the Ott deal may because of Boat but we don't really know that either we could still be looking to trade.

Here is the deal though Ott may be a bit overpaid, but he will center our special teams with a 55-60% faceoff win, he takes the body, he blocks shots, and not thinking about the his last 29 games I'm saying (fingers crossed) that he will still be good for 20-25 pts with a new set of line mates.

We lose a little on the faceoffs, on puck possession, and age the kid could have been great here and I really do think he would have a cup here if he stayed. But (Frank) him if thats the road he wants to take then take it and stay over there we dont need people who dont want to be here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 pm 
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cardsfan04 wrote:
I think Ott is better than his performance after the trade last year suggests. Not a whole lot to back it up. Just my opinion.



Quote:
I just don't think the sky is falling either.


I agree here I think its a good alterative, Honest question who else in free agency right now should we have signed for 2.5 mil or less?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:11 pm 
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APOD wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
I think Ott is better than his performance after the trade last year suggests. Not a whole lot to back it up. Just my opinion.



Quote:
I just don't think the sky is falling either.


I agree here I think its a good alterative, Honest question who else in free agency right now should we have signed for 2.5 mil or less?


Anyone but Steve Ott?
A sack of potatoes?
A bag of dust?
Christian Backman?

But in all seriousness...Lee Stempniak.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:42 pm 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
APOD wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
I think Ott is better than his performance after the trade last year suggests. Not a whole lot to back it up. Just my opinion.



Quote:
I just don't think the sky is falling either.


I agree here I think its a good alterative, Honest question who else in free agency right now should we have signed for 2.5 mil or less?


Anyone but Steve Ott?
A sack of potatoes?
A bag of dust?
Christian Backman?

But in all seriousness...Lee Stempniak.


Not gritty enough for the Tau line, tough and untalented, Ott, Reaver, Lapierre.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:00 pm 
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I lost my cat and Sobotka on the same (Franking) day

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:02 pm 
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I think people are over reacting about Sobotka. After Schwartz gets his raise was there going to be enough for Boat? If our cap space was only $6M. Sure if Jaden takes less but $3M is about right and now Ott $2.6M...Boat had to take what was left. I'll miss him and I'll now be pissed every time Ott takes the ice but hey the will survive and will push on.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:11 pm 
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It floors me that some of you guys think that the loss of Sobotka and the signing of Ott is going to cost this team a cup :facepalm:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:11 pm 
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I can understand Boat going, fine. But Ott is truly awful, his plus/minus on this team since his arrival confirms as such. Personally I'd rather they play a totally unproven Rob Fabbri.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:36 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
I can understand Boat going, fine. But Ott is truly awful, his plus/minus on this team since his arrival confirms as such. Personally I'd rather they play a totally unproven Rob Fabbri.

^ This guy gets it.

boat and Ott are separate issues.

I am fine with boat.

I am not fine with Ott. I believe this to be the single worst move of the offseason, and it's insult to injury related to the trade that brought him here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:07 pm 
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APOD wrote:
It floors me that some of you guys think that the loss of Sobotka and the signing of Ott is going to cost this team a cup :facepalm:


I don't think it will cost us a Cup. Boat was one of my favorite players. On nights when the whole team was off, who was the guy that was still playing his balls off? Boat. Lest we also forget, he actually had 1 more point than Berglund last year, and played with way more of an edge than #21.

Ott, is a different story. I was going to create two threads, one for each signing, but the way it played out in real time today, it was hard to separate the issues. I'm not boiling this down to a 'Ott was signed to replace Boat' sort of thing. Obviously they play different roles on this team.

But Ott was putrid for us. No two ways to put it. I just read a tweet from JR that Ott said he wsa playing with a sports hernia the last few months of the season. Does that change my opinion of his performance? Maybe a little. But there are some on here who got after Jax a few years ago for playing hurt and sucking, so should I lessen my criticism of Ott because he was injured? I don't know.

Ultimately, I'll calm down about this. I didn't want him back. He's back, I'm not happy. But he's got time to show his true colors and maybe he will, and if he does, I'll admit I was wrong.

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