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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:37 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
In 58 years it's a foregone guarantee I'll be dead. Hell, I may be dead in 58 seconds, who the hell knows? I'm tired of waiting. My track record kind of sucks. I was 5 when my baseball team won, I wasn't anywhere near being born when my football team won, and my hockey team is the most unfortunate organization in the damn league. Just one time I want to know and understand the feeling of being a fan of a winner.


:plusplus: :plusplus:

I live in Portland, OR where we're still milking the nostalgia of an NBA championship 40 years ago.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:54 am 
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Toasted Oates wrote:
At least Yeo buried Perron and Berglund on the bench in the 3rd period of Game 6 and showed little to no faith in Lehtera. Have to pray Doug isn't so stubborn to realize he hasn't given his coach or core players enough support @ forward.


At the same time, this coach was too stubborn to change his PP personnel when they clearly weren't working at all in the playoffs. He put 55/6 with 17/26/91 once the entire playoffs and the puck was in the net within 25 seconds just as the PP expired. It's a shame the coach didn't immediately use that unit in Game 6, but special teams adjustments seem to be a major problem for Yeo, regardless of personnel available. No need to even go into the refusal to look at what the Blues did in '15-'16 and even attempt to implement what clearly worked.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:11 am 
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Yep, the power play sucked.

How was Montreal's this year?

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:28 am 
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Montreal power play
15-16 16.22%
16-17 19.57%
16-17 Playoffs 15.8%

Remind me again how bad the Blues never adjusting PP was in the playoffs? 6.7 percent, 5th lowest in NHL since 86-87 for teams w/ more than 10 games played
1/15 in round 1
1/15 in round 2

For a head coach who got a head coaching gig off of his time as an assistant running a power play, it sure as heck didn't show up in the playoffs for the Blues. And the #1 unit never adjusted - which is what good coaches do when something doesn't work. One would think after the 1/15 in round one, something would be changed for Round 2 in the #1 unit which wasn't scoring. Nope.

A 15% PP could have won the series vs NSH with the 2.5 more goals - or at least forced OTs and then who knows who wins.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:20 pm 
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You don't need a PP to win the cup - ours sucked in 2013 and we won it. But you do need a PK. While it makes things tough to win without a PP if I had to pick one I'd take a solid PK everytime. I don't think lack of a PP killed the Blues in this series. We didn't score on those guys either. They're running on hunger and they have lots of it.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:51 pm 
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You do however need a coaching staff and GM that address deficencies and fix them in a timely manner. Blues PP unit, when managed right, is outright dangerous and had we capitalized on just a few of those chances, we would be telling a different story now. The one coach they had that could do it pretty well they let go. Our PK unit I felt was OK, not great, not amazing, but they got the job done thanks in no small part to Jake Allen.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Then what adjustments did you guys want him to make?

I see throwing 55 out there as a suggestion based on him getting a shot on goal and it rebounding right to Schwartz. If I remember right that goal only happened because the Nashville defenseman made an ill fated clearing attempt. The goal had nothing to do with extended zone time or tic tac toe passing--traits of a good power play.

Minnesota had a great PK all year. This was thanks in part to Koivu, one of the best faceoff guys and penalty killers in the league--a Selke finalist. He had no rival as 26 didn't even play until game 5. When you don't start with the puck, it's hard as hell to do anything. Who coaches faceoffs?

As Kerfuffle alluded to, the Predators played with plenty of hunger. On a penalty kill you need to win faceoffs, win board battles and make saves. They terrorized the Hawks and Blues both on the PK. Chicago doesn't lack star power on the power play.

Other than switch 27 and 55 what did you want him to do? Give the opponents some credit too. Gotta start with the puck and win board battles.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Toasted Oates wrote:
At least Yeo buried Perron and Berglund on the bench in the 3rd period of Game 6 and showed little to no faith in Lehtera. Have to pray Doug isn't so stubborn to realize he hasn't given his coach or core players enough support @ forward.

But as others have stated, some money will have to be moved around to fix his mistakes.

You'd think he would have known this before he lobbed $$ at Berglund. I'm trying to think of times where Army made a mistake and was able to atone for it without it costing us even more. Anyone?

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Toasted Oates wrote:
Other than switch 27 and 55 what did you want him to do? Give the opponents some credit too. Gotta start with the puck and win board battles.

Game 4 - Blues 53% on face-offs
Game 5 - Blues 46% which isn't horrible, but decent enough to win, including 50% on the PP.
Game 6 55%
Face-offs weren't why the Blues lost Games 4 and 6. The Blues were so bad in the first 3, the fact they improved as much as they did is ignored.

Fixing the PP is painfully simple.
1) Look at film from the 15-16 power play which was 26% in the regular season and almost as good in the playoffs.
2) Implement the plays that worked last season which have been painfully absent throughout these playoffs.
3) All it takes is putting a right-handed shot in the low slot, not right on top of the net, and having a good passer setup in the RW corner. High low passing to get the d to move and open up the lane to the guy in the slot.
4) Voila!!! Great high quality scoring chance because it creates a down low 2-on-1 which if they shift to defend opens up back door plays. We saw this with regularity last season and in the playoffs last year.
* Numerous teams run this and I have yet to see a team defend it successfully outside of a goalie making a ludicrous save. Even the Capitals, with the Ovechkin weapon, run this - especially when Ovie is on the ice, because it provides a different scoring threat other than the best shooter. And when the D shifts to take this away, it almost always leaves a clear passing lane to Ovie for his one timer. People ask how can Ovie be that open on the PP? Just watch what's happening on the opposite side of the ice and how Caps opponents are being forced to defend that area also.

But - that apparently is too much to expect of the power play specialist head coach we hired. Last edit - I forgot how many times this season the Blues PP would look to be setting this up and the guy in the slot would skate to the boards. The movement was always coordinated so they were coached to leave the best scoring area on the ice when the puck went below the goal line on a wing with someone already retrieving it. :doh: :facepalm:

Personnel wise - 55 puts the puck to the net. 6 puts the puck to the net. 27 spends way too much time looking for a pass and rarely puts it on net. There is no real shooting threat on the PP with 27 and 20 manning the points - which makes killing the penalty as easy as shadowing Tarasenko and over-playing passing lanes to the other two. My answer - balance the 1 and 2 units ice time. #6 goes with #27 so there is a shooting threat from the point. #20 with #55 for the same reason. Point passer, point shooter, then either 1 or 2 unit up front can do their thing.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:09 pm 
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theohall wrote:
Toasted Oates wrote:
Other than switch 27 and 55 what did you want him to do? Give the opponents some credit too. Gotta start with the puck and win board battles.

Game 4 - Blues 53% on face-offs
Game 5 - Blues 46% which isn't horrible, but decent enough to win, including 50% on the PP.
Game 6 55%
Face-offs weren't why the Blues lost Games 4 and 6. The Blues were so bad in the first 3, the fact they improved as much as they did is ignored.

Fixing the PP is painfully simple.
1) Look at film from the 15-16 power play which was 26% in the regular season and almost as good in the playoffs.
2) Implement the plays that worked last season which have been painfully absent throughout these playoffs.
3) All it takes is putting a right-handed shot in the low slot, not right on top of the net, and having a good passer setup in the RW corner. High low passing to get the d to move and open up the lane to the guy in the slot.
4) Voila!!! Great high quality scoring chance because it creates a down low 2-on-1 which if they shift to defend opens up back door plays. We saw this with regularity last season and in the playoffs last year.
* Numerous teams run this and I have yet to see a team defend it successfully outside of a goalie making a ludicrous save. Even the Capitals, with the Ovechkin weapon, run this - especially when Ovie is on the ice, because it provides a different scoring threat other than the best shooter. And when the D shifts to take this away, it almost always leaves a clear passing lane to Ovie for his one timer. People ask how can Ovie be that open on the PP? Just watch what's happening on the opposite side of the ice and how Caps opponents are being forced to defend that area also.

But - that apparently is too much to expect of the power play specialist head coach we hired. Last edit - I forgot how many times this season the Blues PP would look to be setting this up and the guy in the slot would skate to the boards. The movement was always coordinated so they were coached to leave the best scoring area on the ice when the puck went below the goal line on a wing with someone already retrieving it. :doh: :facepalm:

Personnel wise - 55 puts the puck to the net. 6 puts the puck to the net. 27 spends way too much time looking for a pass and rarely puts it on net. There is no real shooting threat on the PP with 27 and 20 manning the points - which makes killing the penalty as easy as shadowing Tarasenko and over-playing passing lanes to the other two. My answer - balance the 1 and 2 units ice time. #6 goes with #27 so there is a shooting threat from the point. #20 with #55 for the same reason. Point passer, point shooter, then either 1 or 2 unit up front can do their thing.

Thank you for the thorough response. My only rebuttal would be that the right handed shot for the low slot isn't on this roster. Last year they had Backes AND Brouwer. You've got Perron but...

As far as faceoffs go, I was more talking about the Minnesota series. With Nashville, I'm more giving them credit for their aggressive, dogged approach.

I understand the frustration, but I'd like to see him have a better roster to work with. I would guess Fabbri would have made the playoff power play look better. Shattenkirk too. I think he did a good coaching job considering the roster he had to work with.

When your 2nd line is Berglund, Perron, a guy with a busted foot and the guy with the busted foot looks like the most dangerous player? Not good.

You are a logical thinking Blues fan, much more knowledgeable of the game than I. I just really, really hope you're wrong about the head coach and his future here.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Trading Shattenkirk was both a financially shrewd move and a hockey shrewd move. He's fine for offense but ill-suited to play defense, especially when asked to switch sides. I think we tended to over-value his worth to the team on account of his being the only decent player that was involved in the trade that netted him. I'm more excited about the future of Sanford.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Irish Blues wrote:
Toasted Oates wrote:
At least Yeo buried Perron and Berglund on the bench in the 3rd period of Game 6 and showed little to no faith in Lehtera. Have to pray Doug isn't so stubborn to realize he hasn't given his coach or core players enough support @ forward.

But as others have stated, some money will have to be moved around to fix his mistakes.

You'd think he would have known this before he lobbed $$ at Berglund. I'm trying to think of times where Army made a mistake and was able to atone for it without it costing us even more. Anyone?

Haha I'm trying to be optimistic here, but yeah. Many think the 17-18 roster will look very similar to the 16-17 one, which is not crazy by any means considering some of these anchor contracts. I said they "should" be damn good, but I should have said "could."

Just have to hope because they feel awful close to where we all want them to be. That's been a common refrain, though.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:48 pm 
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glen a richter wrote:
Trading Shattenkirk was both a financially shrewd move and a hockey shrewd move. He's fine for offense but ill-suited to play defense, especially when asked to switch sides. I think we tended to over-value his worth to the team on account of his being the only decent player that was involved in the trade that netted him. I'm more excited about the future of Sanford.

I don't disagree; I think I've typed the exact same thing on this forum a few times. Just saying he would have helped the power play.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Toasted Oates wrote:
Thank you for the thorough response. My only rebuttal would be that the right handed shot for the low slot isn't on this roster. Last year they had Backes AND Brouwer. You've got Perron but...

...

When your 2nd line is Berglund, Perron, a guy with a busted foot and the guy with the busted foot looks like the most dangerous player? Not good.


The right-handed shot thing - think outside the box. Brodziak or Reaves are capable of shooting from the same position as Brouwer did. But - OMG Brodziak or Reaves on the power play??? WTF are you thinking?? If the GM won't provide proper tools, use the tools you have. (Brodziak, Reaves, tools...). Just to be dickish, you know who has a right handed shot? Ty Rattie... :aaaa: (that's why I had him as the Blues PPG leader in predictions)

However, it would suit the Blues to actually acquire a right-handed shooter for the top 6 in the off-season. Doesn't need to be a 30 goal scorer, just someone who puts puck on net reasonably well, specifically for the power play.

Totally agreed on the 2nd line, busted foot stuff.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:38 am 
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theohall wrote:

3) All it takes is putting a right-handed shot in the low slot, not right on top of the net, and having a good passer setup in the RW corner. High low passing to get the d to move and open up the lane to the guy in the slot.


I am not saying bring Oshie back or anything. But I think that's pretty much what you're talking about.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:04 am 
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ComradeT wrote:
theohall wrote:

3) All it takes is putting a right-handed shot in the low slot, not right on top of the net, and having a good passer setup in the RW corner. High low passing to get the d to move and open up the lane to the guy in the slot.


I am not saying bring Oshie back or anything. But I think that's pretty much what you're talking about.



That is the play I'm talking about the Blues ran so effectively in 15-16. It doesn't have to be Oshie. Heck, if there is a strong shooting, right hand shot prospect (*cough* Tage Thompson *cough*), they should be on the team for 17-18.

(Buyout Lehtera. Thompson makes team. Actually frees cap space.)

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:17 am 
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And now having time to think about things...

Let's start with how the Capitals use Ovechkin on the power play.
1) He has a specific area he sets up in (LW face-off dot out to just above LW circle) with little movement from that area.
2) He rarely moves beyond that area on a PP. You won't see Ovechkin on the RW ever on the power play. When he does leave his scoring area, it's to retrieve a puck on his side.

So....

We have 2 things.
1) Tarasenko whose best shots seem to be from the right-side of the ice
2) A predominance of left-handed shooters.

So...

Flip that down low play on the power play to the left wing, instead of the right and have Tarasenko play like Ovie on the power play from the right wing, instead of the left. It should work, better than letting Tarasenko roam all over the ice on the power play like currently happens. Just take that 15-16 game film, or the Caps PP from Game 6 and flip the play to the opposite side. If teams over-play Tarasenko, that down low play should be wide open. Even worse for opponents, if you put #55 on the ice at the same time, there would be a hard point shot from the high slot along with Tarasenko's shot from the RW - both of which have to be defended - again opening up play down low. If the high defender over-plays #91, #55 has a shooting lane and vice versa.

This should probably go in the post-mortem thread.

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