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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:26 pm 
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None are bust on the same level as Ryan Leaf, though I get we're now jumping to a totally different sport. Nevertheless, he's the poster child for what it means to be a bust.

I wouldn't totally fault Daigle, those Senators teams were god awful with or without him. Had he been drafted by something resembling a decent NHL team with decent NHL coaching, it all could have turned out differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:27 pm 
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Here is a completely wrong prediction from the 2012 draft of Nail Yakupov



Pierre: He's going to be a difference maker. :facepalm:

Bwahahahahahaha!

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Here are some more completely wrong predictions about Yakupov. After Yak was selected, he sure was hyped like Daigle. Based on what is predicted below, and in other places I could link, I can't write...

MASSIVE BUST!

big enough.

Quote:
Nail Yakupov: 5 Bold Predictions for No. 1 Pick's NHL Career
DAVE UNGAR
JUNE 24, 2012

While the 2012 NHL Entry Draft had many surprises, the Edmonton Oilers selecting right wing Nail Yakupov of the OHL's Sarnia Sting with the No. 1 overall pick was not surprising in the least.

Sure, there were rumors that the Oilers wanted to trade out of the No. 1 pick, or that they were going to draft Ryan Muray with the No. 1 pick and address their huge needs on defense. At the end of the day, however, the Oilers could not pass on the highly skilled Yakupov.

Yakupov was ranked as the No. 1 prospect in just about every mock draft there was leading into the actual draft, and for good reason.

With an undeniable blend of skill, physicality and finishing ability, Yakupov really looks like a can't miss prospect. He possesses one of the best one-timers I have seen in a very long time. And he is absolutely lethal when it is just he and the goalie one-on-one.

In looking at his profile on thehockeywriters.com, many prominent scouts had nothing but great things to say about Yakupov.

"Yakupov is a gifted goal scoring forward, something that really doesn’t seem to come around that often, so when one does he is a hot commodity," said Head Scout Ross MacLean of International Scouting Services.
Hockeyprospect.com's Mark Edwards had the following to say about Yakupov:

"Nail is arguably the best prospect available in the 2012 NHL Entry Draft for several reasons. First and foremost is his skating. He maintains a low centre of gravity, great strength in his lower body and his quick footwork allows his first few steps to be very strong, giving him exceptional acceleration... He can explode on the outside, but also has excellent lateral agility and can go outside/inside better than most players in the CHL... The release on his shot is powerful and accurate, none more so than his one-timer. Goaltenders simply need to hope that the puck hits him, because when he connects it’s just a blur."

NHL Central Scouting's Chris Edwards had similar praise for Yakupov:

"His first step and ability to control bouncing pucks, knock them down and make a play are the best of any of the guys in the draft, in my opinion. He really gets up to top speed very quickly and his hands are outstanding. Like Pavel Bure, Yakupov is dangerous every shift."

In his two years with the Sarnia Sting, Yakupov's numbers certainly supported his being considered the No. 1 overall prospect.

In 2010-11, he led his team and Ontario Hockey League rookies in scoring with 101 points (49-52—101) in 65 games.

This past season, he had 69 points in only 42 games.

Internationally, Yakupov played in the 2012 World Junior Championships where he tied for the tournament lead with nine assists.

In the 2011 Wold Under-18 Championships, Yakupov was a key reason that the Russians won a bronze medal, including scoring a hat trick in the bronze medal game.

By all accounts and indications, Nail Yakupov should have a stellar NHL career.

But just how good a career will he have?

Let's pull out our crystal ball and make five bold predictions for the career of this year's No. 1 overall draft pick, Nail Yakupov.
1. He Will Break Ryan Nugent-Hopkins' Record for Earliest Career Hat Trick

To start off his NHL career, Yakupov will break an NHL record just set this past season by his new teammate, and former No. 1 overall pick, Ryan Nugent Hopkins.

On October 15, 2011, in only his third NHL game, Nugent-Hopkins recorded a hat trick against the Vancouver Canucks.

In doing so, he set a new NHL record for the earliest career hat trick ever recorded by a No. 1 overall pick.

With all of the offensive fire power the Oilers now have, particularly with Yakupov, Nugent-Hopkins, and the No. 1 overall pick from the 2010 draft Taylor Hall all in the mix, look for Yakupov to break that record this season.

What makes this prediction even more bold is that Yakupov will have to do this against either the Canucks on the road or in the Oilers' home opener against the defending champion Los Angeles Kings and Jonathan Quick.

With the Canucks' goaltending situation still up in the air, Yakupov's chances would seem better against the Canucks than the Kings and Quick.

A hat trick in his very first NHL game?

It doesn't get much more bold than that.

2. Yakupov Will Win the Calder Memorial Trophy

At first blush, this would not seem like much of a bold prediction at all.

After all, the No. 1 overall pick should win the Calder Memorial Trophy or NHL's version of Rookie of the Year.

But history has said otherwise.

The last No. 1 overall pick to also win the Calder Memorial Trophy was Patrick Kane following the 2007-2008 season.

This past season Ryan Nugent-Hopkins failed to break the mini-drought as he was the runner-up to Colorado's Gabriel Landeskog

In fact, since 1963, the top overall pick in the NHL Draft has come away with the Calder Memorial Trophy only eight times.

Yakupov will be the ninth and the first to accomplish the feat in five years.

3. Yakupov Will Score 50 Goals in His Second Season

Here is another prediction that, at least initially, does not seem that bold.

You would think that unless they are a complete bust, most No. 1 overall picks would be 50 goal scorers by their second season, right?

Actually...no.

Obviously, we don't know what Nugent-Hopkins will do in his second season yet.

Taylor Hall only had 27 goals this past season, his second in the NHL.

John Tavares, the New York Islanders No. 1 overall pick from 2009, had 29 goals in his second season on Long Island.

You have to go back to Steven Stamkos, the No. 1 overall pick for the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2008, to find the last No. 1 pick to rack up 50 goals in his second season. Stamkos had 51 goals in the 2009-2010 season.

Before that, you have to go back to Alex Ovechkin, who actually pulled the feat in his rookie season, saw his production slip to 45 goals in his second season, and then he scored 50 goals or more the following three seasons.

Like Yakupov, Stamkos played for the Sarnia Sting.

The Sting will again produce the next No. 1 overall pick to score 50 goals in just his second season.

4. Yakupov Will Lead the Oilers Back to the Stanley Cup Finals Within 4 Years

In the 2005-2006 NHL postseason, the Edmonton Oilers had a magical run that lasted all the way to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Edmonton came up short in that epic series against the Carolina Hurricanes.

But not as short as they have come up since then.

The Oilers have failed to make the playoffs since that tremendous season.

To say that Nail Yakupov will lead the Oilers back to the playoffs does not seem bold enough.

The Western Conference, in my opinion, is not quite as deep a conference as the East, so getting into the playoff tournament is not that daunting a task.

Getting back to the Stanley Cup Finals however? Now that's a different story entirely.

Yet I am predicting the Oilers will get back to the Cup finals within the next four years.

Only Sidney Crosby and Patrick Kane have accomplished such a feat recently.

Crosby got the Penguins back to the Stanley Cup Finals in 2008, three years after he had been selected No. 1 overall by the Pens. The following year, Crosby helped the Pens win the Cup for the first time in 17 years.

Cane was able to help get the Blackhawks back to the Cup Finals in 2010, again three years after he was drafted No. 1 by Chicago. Once there, he helped the Blackhaws win the Cup for the first time since 1961.

With Yakupov, I think he will get Edmonton back to the Stanley Cup Finals by his fourth season in the NHL. The Oilers still have some big holes to fill on defense. But once Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov have a few seasons under their belts, that Edmonton offense will be nothing short of scary.

Look for Edmonton to return to glory, with Yakupov leading the way, by the 2016-2017 season.

5. Yakupov Will Have a Hall of Fame Career

The boldest prediction I will make for the career of Nail Yakupov is that he will have a career worthy of the Hall of Fame.

True, that goes beyond bold. I will give you that.

But if the other four predictions I have made come true, Yakupov will be well on his way towards a Hall of Fame quality career.

When you watch the video profile in this slide, you will learn that Yakupov already broke several records that Steven Stamkos set during his days with the Sarnia Sting.

I do not know too many people out there who would say that Stamkos does not have a legitimate shot at the Hall of Fame based on the way his career has gone so far.

There have been comparisons drawn between Yakupov and Pavel Bure. As indicated in the video, Bure is Yakupov's idol.

"The Russian Rocket" Bure was one of those players who was a real game changer and had a stellar career. He averaged better than a point per game in his NHL career (779 points with 437 goals in 702 NHL games).

Bure might not be in the hockey Hall of Fame (yet) but he was inducted into the International Ice Hockey Federations' Hall of Fame in 2012. It is certainly not out of the question that Bure will someday be inducted into the hockey Hall of Fame.

If Yakupov models his playing style after Bure, and can keep pace with the likes of Stamkos over the course of his career, then predicting that Yakupov will have a Hall of Fame career does not seem so bold after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:23 pm 
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All of that hype begs the questions:

(1) What went wrong? or
(2) What did the scouts miss?

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:52 pm 
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I kept reading more last night.

What likely went wrong was Nail Yakupov himself. The Oilers wanted to send him back to Juniors to develop, but he threatened to go back to Russia, instead. He stayed with the Oilers, did okay his rookie season, then stagnated and worsened. Likely due to the Oilers unstable NHL environment. Not the best place to develop someone while at the same time not hurting their confidence.

My concern going forward for the Blues in terms of developing players is their unstable AHL situation and what seem like cross messages being sent by management as to what this team is supposed to be.

This year:
Get younger, more talented, be faster. (2017 draft fits this mold, 1st two picks in 2016 fit this mold)
followed by
Sign completely unnecessary veteran grinder free agents. 4th liners can be pulled from the AHL. Why waste money on this?

Last year:
Be a more offensive team
followed by
Hire Mike Yeo - a defense first head coach - which he proved to be when he took over as HC. Great defense - offense dropped .5 G/GM.

What is this team? Younger, faster, more talented, more offensive - or - a grinder, play defense first, let offense come from playing defense kind of team? Current roster and HC say the 2nd.

If Kyrou will continue developing offensively better in Juniors, leave him there, because he won't develop offensively under Mike Yeo. Ask Mikael Granlund who plateaued from Age 20-23 under Yeo, then played like everyone expected under Boudreau at Age 24. Apply this to every Blues forward prospect when it comes to Yeo - especially those in the 20-23 range. (Fabbri, Thompson, etc) And that's going to be a large part of this Blues roster very soon. Like the 2018 season and even moreso in 2019.

I hope to hell Berube, Ott, and Jackman can counter Yeo's inability to develop forwards. (Did I just type Ott??? God forbid)

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Switching gears to someone who is NOT a bust- Parayko is headed for arbitration.

https://www.nhl.com/blues/news/parayko-elects-for-salary-arbitration/c-290298054

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:06 pm 
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theohall wrote:

What likely went wrong was Nail Yakupov himself. The Oilers wanted to send him back to Juniors to develop, but he threatened to go back to Russia, instead. He stayed with the Oilers, did okay his rookie season, then stagnated and worsened. Likely due to the Oilers unstable NHL environment. Not the best place to develop someone while at the same time not hurting their confidence.


All the more reason I'd prefer Kostin not make the team this year. Not that the Blues are unstable, per se, but it's not the best environment for an offensively gifted player who went 31st overall as opposed to Yakupov going 1st overall to get his feet wet. Kostin himself wants to make the NHL this season, and I applaud him for his lofty goal especially since Russia isn't an option for him at the moment. But please spend the year in the AHL and season up a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:01 pm 
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I just wonder if the Vegas Golden Knights AHL team is the best place for Kostin to develop given the situation. The Wolves have basically removed all mention of the Blues from their website. He'd probably be better off going to a Junior team that would for sure play him without any concern for politics as will happen with the Wolves. But he won't play for a Junior team - which is the same thing Yakupov wouldn't do.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:09 pm 
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Quote:
This season, who the Golden Knights send to the Wolves will be a bit of a mish mosh.

None of the 12 players the team drafted this June will be eligible to play for the Wolves this season. However, with the Golden Knights selecting more players (30) than the team has roster spots (23), and having been active in the early days of free agency, the composition of Chicago's roster is becoming clearer - although we won't be fully sure of who'll be on the Wolves until after Golden Knights training camp.


If anyone claims whichever, currently, 7 players the Knights send to the Wolves won't play ahead of Blues players, regardless of their skill level, I will laugh at them. And that 7 number is likely to go up when the Knights fill out their 50 eligible contracts, since those in Juniors don't count against the 50 contract limit.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:53 pm 
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theohall wrote:
I just wonder if the Vegas Golden Knights AHL team is the best place for Kostin to develop given the situation. The Wolves have basically removed all mention of the Blues from their website. He'd probably be better off going to a Junior team that would for sure play him without any concern for politics as will happen with the Wolves. But he won't play for a Junior team - which is the same thing Yakupov wouldn't do.

A gloomy but logical outlook. Hopefully he blows up, makes the team, and it's no worries. That wouldn't alleviate concerns about Thompson, Kyrou, Walman, Dunn, Blais, etc. and how they'll be used in Chicago, though. This is a murky situation to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:04 am 
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Thompson is the more likely one to "blow up" and make the team. He is the right-handed shot the Blues are missing on the power play, has the size, and is capable of playing any role/any forward position. He's already done the any role/any position thing between UConn and the US World Jr team.

Kostin is another leftie and doesn't solve the lack of a RH shot on the power play thing which became an issue when Backes and Brouwer left.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:35 am 
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I understand that and alluded to Thompson being a righty in another thread. He will have to outperform Kostin at the prospect tournament/training camp, though. Having a right handed shot/versatility doesn't hurt him, but he'll have to show out. Which he very well could. Kostin seems very hungry.

Yeo is such a terrible power play coach that it won't matter either way, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:41 am 
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theohall wrote:
I just wonder if the Vegas Golden Knights AHL team is the best place for Kostin to develop given the situation. The Wolves have basically removed all mention of the Blues from their website. He'd probably be better off going to a Junior team that would for sure play him without any concern for politics as will happen with the Wolves. But he won't play for a Junior team - which is the same thing Yakupov wouldn't do.


Well someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the coach of the Chicago Wolves isn't beholden to either parent franchise? Or are they?

I would think if I'm the coach of the AHL my job is to win at the AHL level, doing the same types of things an NHL coach would have to think about: the blend of getting the best players on the ice to win hockey games and developing younger talent always keeping that eye to the future.

Frankly if the head coach was beholden to either of the Blues or Vegas I don't know how that's NOT a conflict of interest. Hire a totally independent coach and staff entitled to make its own judgment calls in regards to the players on its roster.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:52 am 
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theohall wrote:
...

This year:
Get younger, more talented, be faster. (2017 draft fits this mold, 1st two picks in 2016 fit this mold)
followed by
Sign completely unnecessary veteran grinder free agents. 4th liners can be pulled from the AHL. Why waste money on this?

...


To play devil's advocate the best arguments I could put forth would be that:
(1) They're a different kind of depth with NHL experience if the injury bug hits hard and the kids can't handle it. It's a cheap safety buffer
(2) We'd rather have NHL'ers who "they are what we think they are" in the press box as healthy scratches vs. prospects up there in the press box NOT playing in the AHL and NOT developing because we have to keep them on hand "just in case."

Coincidentally, Yakupov is a good example: You also can't air-lift these kids into the lineup and shatter their confidence and development before they're ready. It's such a fine line.

Tampa Bay 2016-2017 was a good counter argument. Injury bug hit hard. The kids are forced to respond and they do, and some of them names that weren't "expected" to be ready (Brayden Point and Dotchin, among others). Injuries and adversity breeds opportunity for prospects to crack the lineup and become NHL players. If we never give them that "chance to fail" they'll also never succeed.

In my heart of hearts I think we ruined Jaskin and Rattie more than they didn't pan out as NHL players. But that's me. I hope we don't make the same mistake with this "next generation" of young talent we have coming in from some good drafts we've recently had.

Ditto on hoping the new assistants on Yeo's staff can be a good bug in his ear to assure that the youth stifling doesn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:06 am 
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WaukeeBlues wrote:
theohall wrote:
...

This year:
Get younger, more talented, be faster. (2017 draft fits this mold, 1st two picks in 2016 fit this mold)
followed by
Sign completely unnecessary veteran grinder free agents. 4th liners can be pulled from the AHL. Why waste money on this?

...


To play devil's advocate the best arguments I could put forth would be that:
(1) They're a different kind of depth with NHL experience if the injury bug hits hard and the kids can't handle it. It's a cheap safety buffer
(2) We'd rather have NHL'ers who "they are what we think they are" in the press box as healthy scratches vs. prospects up there in the press box NOT playing in the AHL and NOT developing because we have to keep them on hand "just in case."

Coincidentally, Yakupov is a good example: You also can't air-lift these kids into the lineup and shatter their confidence and development before they're ready. It's such a fine line.

Tampa Bay 2016-2017 was a good counter argument. Injury bug hit hard. The kids are forced to respond and they do, and some of them names that weren't "expected" to be ready (Brayden Point and Dotchin, among others). Injuries and adversity breeds opportunity for prospects to crack the lineup and become NHL players. If we never give them that "chance to fail" they'll also never succeed.

In my heart of hearts I think we ruined Jaskin and Rattie more than they didn't pan out as NHL players. But that's me. I hope we don't make the same mistake with this "next generation" of young talent we have coming in from some good drafts we've recently had.

Ditto on hoping the new assistants on Yeo's staff can be a good bug in his ear to assure that the youth stifling doesn't happen.

++

Especially the Rattie/Jaskin thing. IMO, that's what happens when defense first coaches who prefer veterans fail to let guys offensive skills flourish. Fabbri is so damn good the coaches couldn't screw him up. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:56 pm 
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theohall wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
theohall wrote:
...

This year:
Get younger, more talented, be faster. (2017 draft fits this mold, 1st two picks in 2016 fit this mold)
followed by
Sign completely unnecessary veteran grinder free agents. 4th liners can be pulled from the AHL. Why waste money on this?

...


To play devil's advocate the best arguments I could put forth would be that:
(1) They're a different kind of depth with NHL experience if the injury bug hits hard and the kids can't handle it. It's a cheap safety buffer
(2) We'd rather have NHL'ers who "they are what we think they are" in the press box as healthy scratches vs. prospects up there in the press box NOT playing in the AHL and NOT developing because we have to keep them on hand "just in case."

Coincidentally, Yakupov is a good example: You also can't air-lift these kids into the lineup and shatter their confidence and development before they're ready. It's such a fine line.

Tampa Bay 2016-2017 was a good counter argument. Injury bug hit hard. The kids are forced to respond and they do, and some of them names that weren't "expected" to be ready (Brayden Point and Dotchin, among others). Injuries and adversity breeds opportunity for prospects to crack the lineup and become NHL players. If we never give them that "chance to fail" they'll also never succeed.

In my heart of hearts I think we ruined Jaskin and Rattie more than they didn't pan out as NHL players. But that's me. I hope we don't make the same mistake with this "next generation" of young talent we have coming in from some good drafts we've recently had.

Ditto on hoping the new assistants on Yeo's staff can be a good bug in his ear to assure that the youth stifling doesn't happen.

++

Especially the Rattie/Jaskin thing. IMO, that's what happens when defense first coaches who prefer veterans fail to let guys offensive skills flourish. Fabbri is so damn good the coaches couldn't screw him up. :)


I don't totally disagree. But, one flaw to this logic is that it's essentially saying, "The players who succeed were too good to be screwed up, but the ones who fail failed because of the coaches." That essentially assigns success and failure to 2 different people solely based on the result.

I know I'm taking you more literally than you probably intend, and an organization can certainly impact the way a player develops, no doubt. But, I don't think the difference between being an AHL guy and a valuable top 6 (or even top 9) guy is on the coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:25 pm 
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cardsfan04 wrote:
I know I'm taking you more literally than you probably intend, and an organization can certainly impact the way a player develops, no doubt. But, I don't think the difference between being an AHL guy and a valuable top 6 (or even top 9) guy is on the coach.


When an organization prefers playing 4th line grinders over the AHL MVP, and when that AHL MVP is promoted is only used as a 4th line grinder, there is something wrong with the organization and how it uses the talent in the organization. Who plays when and with whom is on the head coach. The GM brought the guy up when others were injured. It's a shame the LW AHL MVP wasn't kept on the roster to fill in for Fabbri, the LW who was hurt. Instead, they just pushed up the grinders to fill that role and put the talented guy with the 4th liners and 4th line minutes. That part is on the HC, period.

And it is a combination of both, most times. It's almost never on just one or the other, except when a player is exceptionally talented (Fabbri) and proves it in spite of the HC preferring to play lesser players. Heck, even in Fabbri's rookie season Hitchcock wouldn't use him in situations which were ideal for his talent set.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:45 pm 
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theohall wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
I know I'm taking you more literally than you probably intend, and an organization can certainly impact the way a player develops, no doubt. But, I don't think the difference between being an AHL guy and a valuable top 6 (or even top 9) guy is on the coach.


When an organization prefers playing 4th line grinders over the AHL MVP, and when that AHL MVP is promoted is only used as a 4th line grinder, there is something wrong with the organization and how it uses the talent in the organization. Who plays when and with whom is on the head coach. The GM brought the guy up when others were injured. It's a shame the LW AHL MVP wasn't kept on the roster to fill in for Fabbri, the LW who was hurt. Instead, they just pushed up the grinders to fill that role and put the talented guy with the 4th liners and 4th line minutes. That part is on the HC, period.

And it is a combination of both, most times. It's almost never on just one or the other, except when a player is exceptionally talented (Fabbri) and proves it in spite of the HC preferring to play lesser players. Heck, even in Fabbri's rookie season Hitchcock wouldn't use him in situations which were ideal for his talent set.


I mean, good for Kenny Agostino on winning the AHL MVP. He's not exactly a huge prospect that we mishandled though. He's MAYBE a fringe 3rd liner in the NHL. He has almost as many NHL organizations that he has played for as points in the NHL. That's not the greatest example.

All I'm saying is that it's not "Success = player credit, failure = coach blame." Take Rattie, for example. Sure, he didn't get much playing time here which I'm sure didn't help him. He didn't last long in the Hurricane lineup either though. Maybe the issue isn't that the Blues screwed him up, but just that he doesn't have what it takes to play in the NHL.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:54 pm 
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I think about this sometimes. We all know about how nitpicky Andy Murray was with David Perron early on. Had he just loosened up a bit and let the kid be himself, would his career had turned out differently?

The problem with the Blues is that they have consistently hired taskmasters as head coaches. Now there's nothing fundamentally wrong with having a taskmaster as a head coach when things go to shit, but doesn't it make more sense to alternate hires between different coaching styles? Murray to Hitchcock to Yeo isn't a whole lot of difference one to the next to the next. They've really been tethered to the same exact coaching philosophy since 2006 which hasn't yielded a damn thing but one lucky WCF appearance that was destined for failure anyway. Isn't it time for a real change? Hire a coach who will let the kids loose a bit. I realize they had a brief flirtation with Davis Payne and I wonder how things would have turned out if they let him stick a little longer instead of cutting the cord so quickly when the kids were still young.

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 Post subject: Re: Trades and Signings
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:38 pm 
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That's what I want to see - a different philosophy head coach and let the more talented players play vice defense, defense, defense - we have to grind it out to win crap.

Yeo got way more of a leash than Payne and had far less head coaching experience. All of Payne's coaching experience before his very brief tenure as Blues head coach was as a head coach - just no experience at the NHL level. Actually kind of surprised he hasn't been given another shot as HC. He's on Housley's staff in Buffalo now. 1st assistant Housley hired and Payne is expected to work mostly with the forwards, since Housley is more experienced with defense.

Meanwhile, Yeo has 1 year in the AHL as a head coach, but more time as an NHL assistant, and the Wild gave him plenty of rope to hang himself over 5 years.

Payne gets one full season and a half season, and a few games and is gone. It's not like Payne actually had a fast, talented, skilled roster to work with either. What the Blues had actually fit Hitchcock's style - he had 36 and 37 year old guys playing 70+ games. Go look at that 11-12 roster and tell me where the young skilled guys are. Heck, look at the 10-11 roster when Perron had his concussion - Berglund, Oshie, Backes, Steen and Stewart after the trade. Had Stewart actually had a damn work ethic, the 11-12 start might have been different (3 points in first 13 games). Backes and Steen were more "prime" age veterans.

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