Let's Go Blues :: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/KMOX
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GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/KMOX
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Author:  theohall [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Robb_K wrote:
Huhhhhh????? Hutton gets caught waaaaaaaaay out of the net for an unopposed goal. Comeau pushed The Blues' defenceman into Hutton and pushed both of them a lonnnng way away from the goal. The Blues were right to challenge for goaltender interference.


It's a good challenge, but it's not clear cut. Momentum matters. In a perfect world, Bortuzzo's momentum would have been entirely towards the net, but it wasn't, so it's questionable. Was it probably interference for real? Yes. But it's just not a clear-cut example of it.

Blues look great at times and then look lethargic at times. As long as they look great more than they look lethargic (see the Tampa game as too much lethargy), things will be fine.

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Booo!! The goal was upheld! The League HATES The Blues!! The Blues better get angry and use that energy to win this game.

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

The Blues had better score on this power play.

Author:  theohall [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

And Bortuzzo gets the goal - fittingly!!

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

They don't score on The PP, but keep the pressure on, and Bortuzzo trails the play and pops it into the net!!! Blues lead 4-2!!!

Author:  theohall [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Last season, no way Bortuzzo is where he was to receive that pass to score that 4th goal.

3 forwards below the faceoff dots, with two basically below the goal line. The Blues having a one goal lead. Defenseman sat back last season in that situation. They didn't attack. Bortuzzo and 3 forwards were all below the top of the faceoff circles in the offensive zone. That, IMO, is the gigantic change from last season which has significantly improved the Blues offense.

It has impacted them defensively, too, because they are allowing more goals per game than last season at this point. But the league is an offensive one, now, and that's what wins in the playoffs. Let's hope the Blues keep this style when everyone, Fabbri obviously excluded, is healthy.

Author:  theohall [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

They can challenge for off-side without a timeout, because it's a delay of game penalty if the play isn't off-side.

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Hutton's got to be great now, The Blues HAVE to win faceoffs, and they MUST score an empty-netter!

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Blues lucky to win this one. But a win is a win! Blues now 6-2. Not bad considering most games were on the road, and they were down 4 quality forwards. :banana:

Author:  theohall [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

and traveling while playing on back-to-back nights.

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Schwartz is now on a 60+ goal scoring pace for the season, so far. That's the highest he's ever been after 8 games. I've been saying all along that he should be a regular 30-goal scorer, rather than just a 20+ goal scorer. I think this will finally be his breakout year, from a very good player to a difference maker.

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Dunn looked better all-around tonight, than the last few previous games. It was a very good game for him in all zones. He was trailing the play well in the O-Zone, passing well, positioning well on defence, playing with poise in his own zone under pressure, keeping possession, making good clears and breakout passes. He didn't make nearly as many rookie mistakes as he had been in recent games. The way he's progressing, I'm certain that his all-around game will be better, and he'll be worth more to The Blues on the ice than Gunnarsson, before the end of this season.

Author:  Robb_K [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

theohall wrote:
Last season, no way Bortuzzo is where he was to receive that pass to score that 4th goal.

3 forwards below the faceoff dots, with two basically below the goal line. The Blues having a one goal lead. Defenseman sat back last season in that situation. They didn't attack. Bortuzzo and 3 forwards were all below the top of the faceoff circles in the offensive zone. That, IMO, is the gigantic change from last season which has significantly improved the Blues offense.

It has impacted them defensively, too, because they are allowing more goals per game than last season at this point. But the league is an offensive one, now, and that's what wins in the playoffs. Let's hope the Blues keep this style when everyone, Fabbri obviously excluded, is healthy.


I agree! I like Yeo's strategies and system much, much better than Hitchcock's. The Blues HAVE to have their defencemen helping out on offensive plays, or they won't be able to score enough to beat the top NHL teams. They have the goaltending and general team defence to withstand the extra goals given up.

Author:  theohall [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Robb_K wrote:
theohall wrote:
Last season, no way Bortuzzo is where he was to receive that pass to score that 4th goal.

3 forwards below the faceoff dots, with two basically below the goal line. The Blues having a one goal lead. Defenseman sat back last season in that situation. They didn't attack. Bortuzzo and 3 forwards were all below the top of the faceoff circles in the offensive zone. That, IMO, is the gigantic change from last season which has significantly improved the Blues offense.

It has impacted them defensively, too, because they are allowing more goals per game than last season at this point. But the league is an offensive one, now, and that's what wins in the playoffs. Let's hope the Blues keep this style when everyone, Fabbri obviously excluded, is healthy.


I agree! I like Yeo's strategies and system much, much better than Hitchcock's. The Blues HAVE to have their defencemen helping out on offensive plays, or they won't be able to score enough to beat the top NHL teams. They have the goaltending and general team defence to withstand the extra goals given up.


Yet last year Yeo doubled down on defensive hockey first after Hitchcock was fired. Not sure this increase in offense is Yeo's doing. Have a hunch Berube or Sydor, more Berube than Sydor though based on the Wild background, are behind it. The Wild defenseman under Yeo were never this active in the offensive zone.

Author:  Toasted Oates [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/KMOX

^ Geez. You're never going to give Yeo credit for anything, are you? Is it at all possible he could have changed his way of thinking going into this season? Not all coaches are as stubborn as Hitchy Baby.

If what you say is true, he at least deserves credit for allowing himself to be influenced by his assistants. Great leaders typically surround themselves with people that can help him/her do their job as well as possible. Kudos to the head coach for doing just that.

Author:  theohall [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

Based on the past and having the same assistants in the same situation, I hesitate to give Yeo the credit when the team is clearly doing things teams he led never did. Could I be wrong? Heck, yes! Why do I believe Berube and/or Sydor is/are more of an influence than in Yeo's past? The Wolves defenseman showed the same tendencies to activate in the offensive zone last season. Brad Hunt was a better than point per game defenseman under Berube and Sydor before the Blues had to waive him. Coincidence these two guys working together have possibly implemented the same type of things with the Blues vice the lock-down, defenseman stay at home game Yeo implemented when he took over last season? Hopefully he has learned to listen to his assistants more, especially on the offensive side of things. Maybe he has. I don't know.

Just glad they keep winning.

If Dunn keeps playing this way, what happens when Bouwmeester comes back. I'd probably have Gunnarson sit before sitting Dunn. The chemistry of Bortuzzo/Dunn and Pietrangelo/Edmundson is something I wouldn't mess with. Meanwhile, Parayko seems like he's having to work harder defensively with Gunnarson as the LD. Just seems. Don't really know. And Parayko has shown an ability to adapt his play to suit whichever partner he's paired with. Just wondering stuff.

Author:  gaijin [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

The League says the Avs' 4th goal should have counted:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nhl-admits-avs-goal-shouldve-counted-coachs-challenge-195958607--spt.html

Quote:
The NHL said Friday that a video review had incorrectly nullified a late-game goal by the Colorado Avalanche during a 4-3 loss to the St. Louis Blues, the first mistake of its kind since coach's challenges were added before the 2015-16 season.

The league said it made a mistake by taking away Mikko Rantanen's goal late in the third period Thursday night on a coach's challenge for offside. The review determined that Sven Andrighetto was offside, but on his previous entry into the offensive zone — a play that would not be subject to a challenge.

The disputed sequence happened in a matter of seconds. Andrighetto was in the offensive zone when he gets possession of the puck, which would make him offside, and some of the Blues stopped skating. He re-entered the zone onside and fed the puck to Rantanen for the goal.

The on-ice officials, in consultation with the NHL's situation room in Toronto, incorrectly reviewed the first zone entry, which happened less than 2 seconds earlier. By rule, challenges can only be made on the entry into the offensive zone before a goal. Because of that, the league said, "The goal should have counted."

If the goal had counted, the Avalanche and Blues would have been tied at 4-all at 17:26 of the third period and St. Louis would have been given a two-minute minor penalty.

The NHL did not contemplate restarting the game from that point.

An Avalanche spokesman said the team had no comment. Blues general manager Doug Armstrong, whose father was a linesman, said on Sportsnet's Hockey Central that ultimately the right call was made because the play was offside initially.

"The wording of the rule is wrong, not the call on the ice," Armstrong said. "I don't think anyone that watched the game last night or that know hockey like the back of your hand think that's a goal that we want to count."

St. Louis coach Mike Yeo lost a coach's challenge for goaltender interference earlier in the third period when Colorado's Blake Comeau scored. Under previous rules, he would not have been able to challenge again, but this year the consequences are different: a lost timeout for goalie interference and a penalty for offside, so he was able to ask for review.

Avalanche players were hoping for the best but thought the play was offside.

"We were hoping that the fourth one was going to count but it was clearly offside by a few feet," forward Nathan MacKinnon said. "We didn't know that they could challenge again or (that it could) get overturned or whatever happened."

This is the first time since coach's challenges were instituted that the NHL has conceded a mistake was made on an offside review. There have been 31 total video reviews on offside and coach's challenges so far this season and 351 in 1,230 games last season.

The subject is likely to be discussed when general managers meet next month in Montreal.

"We need to make sure we change the wording in that rule so when it happens again, it is reviewable," Armstrong said.

Author:  ComradeT [ Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GDT Game 8: 10/19/17 | 8:00 PM CT | @ Avalanche | FSMW/K

gaijin wrote:
The League says the Avs' 4th goal should have counted:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nhl-admits-avs-goal-shouldve-counted-coachs-challenge-195958607--spt.html

Quote:
The NHL said Friday that a video review had incorrectly nullified a late-game goal by the Colorado Avalanche during a 4-3 loss to the St. Louis Blues, the first mistake of its kind since coach's challenges were added before the 2015-16 season.

The league said it made a mistake by taking away Mikko Rantanen's goal late in the third period Thursday night on a coach's challenge for offside. The review determined that Sven Andrighetto was offside, but on his previous entry into the offensive zone — a play that would not be subject to a challenge.

The disputed sequence happened in a matter of seconds. Andrighetto was in the offensive zone when he gets possession of the puck, which would make him offside, and some of the Blues stopped skating. He re-entered the zone onside and fed the puck to Rantanen for the goal.

The on-ice officials, in consultation with the NHL's situation room in Toronto, incorrectly reviewed the first zone entry, which happened less than 2 seconds earlier. By rule, challenges can only be made on the entry into the offensive zone before a goal. Because of that, the league said, "The goal should have counted."

If the goal had counted, the Avalanche and Blues would have been tied at 4-all at 17:26 of the third period and St. Louis would have been given a two-minute minor penalty.

The NHL did not contemplate restarting the game from that point.

An Avalanche spokesman said the team had no comment. Blues general manager Doug Armstrong, whose father was a linesman, said on Sportsnet's Hockey Central that ultimately the right call was made because the play was offside initially.

"The wording of the rule is wrong, not the call on the ice," Armstrong said. "I don't think anyone that watched the game last night or that know hockey like the back of your hand think that's a goal that we want to count."

St. Louis coach Mike Yeo lost a coach's challenge for goaltender interference earlier in the third period when Colorado's Blake Comeau scored. Under previous rules, he would not have been able to challenge again, but this year the consequences are different: a lost timeout for goalie interference and a penalty for offside, so he was able to ask for review.

Avalanche players were hoping for the best but thought the play was offside.

"We were hoping that the fourth one was going to count but it was clearly offside by a few feet," forward Nathan MacKinnon said. "We didn't know that they could challenge again or (that it could) get overturned or whatever happened."

This is the first time since coach's challenges were instituted that the NHL has conceded a mistake was made on an offside review. There have been 31 total video reviews on offside and coach's challenges so far this season and 351 in 1,230 games last season.

The subject is likely to be discussed when general managers meet next month in Montreal.

"We need to make sure we change the wording in that rule so when it happens again, it is reviewable," Armstrong said.


Seems like there's a gap in the off-side definition. The attacking player in this case touched the puck in the offensive zone, which wasn't called. He then proceeded to take the puck out of the zone and carry it back in. The question is - if the off-side isn't called when he touches the puck first, is he still considered off-side as he continues to handle the puck out and back into the zone? Basically, I can see where the initial call reversal came from but also where the league is coming from now since there's some ambiguity (IMHO).

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