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 Post subject: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:52 pm 
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I don't like celebrating injury, but this is a bonus for the Cards farm players, since Lil Dunc can't keep them out of the lineup.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:22 am 
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It's a shame, but at least Mather gets to show what he has.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:08 am 
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Addition by subtraction.
This team is better without Duncan in the lineup.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:40 pm 
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The team is better without him in the LINEUP, but I'm not sure the team is better without his bat on the bench.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:42 pm 
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please refer to...

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:59 am 
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I don't like Duncan as much as the next guy, but I'm sympathetic about his injury. The dude's career could end with the surgery that he has to get for his injury. They've only been performing the surgery for 5 years and this will be the first time its performed on a professional athlete.

It could either help him recover...or it could end his career.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:22 pm 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
I don't like Duncan as much as the next guy, but I'm sympathetic about his injury. The dude's career could end with the surgery that he has to get for his injury. They've only been performing the surgery for 5 years and this will be the first time its performed on a professional athlete.

It could either help him recover...or it could end his career.


I wish the guy well and all...and I hope he comes back healthy so we can trade him.
I just don't want him on this Cardinals team. He doesn't fit...at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:52 am 
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Did you not see how atrocious that Nick Stavinoha looked last night? And while we're on the subject of mediocre Cardinals outfielders, I don't get the love affair with Joe Mather. He's Chris Duncan with a different last name. Mather is batting .247 with a god-awful .312 OBP. Duncan was batting .248 with a .346 OBP. By no means do I think that Duncan is a great player, but he'd be more valuable to our bench than either one of these two.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:37 pm 
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I noticed that too OS. I think if Duncan instead of Stavinoha is up he has a better chance of hitting the fly ball necessary to tie the game.

First Isturis was up and I was certain he was going to end it on a DP. It certainly looked like he was trying until he got hit.

Then Stavinoha and Mather. In time, these guys could be good hitters at the ML level but they just did not have the ML experience with pitchers like Lidge to catch up to or predict any of his stuff. This is one of the first times I've noticed the less experienced guys really showing their inexperience. Their job as outfielders at the plate is to get the ball into the outfield. Neither could make contact save for a foul tip.

Chicago may be out of reach barring superb performances against them in the remaining games. Hopefully, they focus on the WC and Chicago plays themselves back down to our level.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:35 pm 
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OS wrote:
Did you not see how atrocious that Nick Stavinoha looked last night? And while we're on the subject of mediocre Cardinals outfielders, I don't get the love affair with Joe Mather. He's Chris Duncan with a different last name. Mather is batting .247 with a god-awful .312 OBP. Duncan was batting .248 with a .346 OBP. By no means do I think that Duncan is a great player, but he'd be more valuable to our bench than either one of these two.


So when will the Cardinals ever see if rookies can play in the bigs. Good games have to be taken with bad games. That's how rookies learn. Yes, Stavinoha and Mather got beat by a quality closer last night. That doesn't change how much Mather has improved since getting regular playing time.

Mather's last 7 games - .290 avg/.323 OBP/.645 SLG. No, Mather isn't a good OBP guy, yet, but he is a better power bat as evidenced by the improved SLG recently. Once Mather gets around the league and learns the pitching and acquires more patience, he will likely be better than Duncan. There is evidence to support this as Mather's first year at AAA - .241/.326/.443. This year at AAA - .303/.409/.630 All Mather needs is time, which he won't get with impatience and knee-jerk reactions to one bad night. He sure as hell plays better defense and has better wheels.

Stavinoha has only had 24 major league at bats and you want to throw him under the bus already? He's similar to Mather. First year facing pitchers at AAA level - .261/.308/.373. This season at AAA - .345/.371/.533. So we'll just decide he sucks after only facing 24 major league pitchers. Nice patience.

Many have complained LaRussa didn't have patience with younger players. Now he's giving them a chance to actually develop because they aren't improving any more at the AAA level and "they are atrocious??" Who isn't giving the rooks a fair opportunity now?

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:50 pm 
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We were talking about "this" Cardinals team, not the future teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:45 pm 
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OS wrote:
We were talking about "this" Cardinals team, not the future teams.


And on "this" Cardinals team, Mather has improved with increased playing time.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Why do you continue to make statements that are completely irrelevant to anything I said? Curt said this team is better off without Chris Duncan on THIS team. I stated that I think he is wrong and provided two examples of players that I don't think are better than Chris Duncan NOW. So unless you're making the case that Joe Mather AND Nick Stavinoha are better players than Duncan NOW, you're wasting both of our time.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:47 pm 
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How 'bout Duncan circa '06, the last time he was healthy. Would he fit in? People want to bitch ever ytime he has trouble in the outfield. How come Ankiel gets a pass? He is constantly misjudging fly balls and twisting and turning out there. I'd be curious to see how many pro games each has played OF. I doubt Duncan has played many more. Not rippin on Ankiel, just stickin up for Duncan.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:43 pm 
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OS wrote:
Did you not see how atrocious that Nick Stavinoha looked last night? And while we're on the subject of mediocre Cardinals outfielders, I don't get the love affair with Joe Mather. He's Chris Duncan with a different last name. Mather is batting .247 with a god-awful .312 OBP. Duncan was batting .248 with a .346 OBP. By no means do I think that Duncan is a great player, but he'd be more valuable to our bench than either one of these two.


I don't care for Stavinoha either...and Mather hasn't been anything great, but to be fair...they haven't played that much (Stavinoha has only had 24 major league at bats and Mather only 86 at bats). Judging them based on relatively few at bats at the very beginning of their careers, is a bit harsh.
I think Mather could be a good player...he just needs more experience.

Duncan, however, has played in over 300 games, and has gotten progressively worse during his short career. Duncan has huge holes in his swing and hasn't been able to adjust once people figured out how to exploit those holes...plus he is one of the worst outfielders I have ever seen. He's a better fielder than Manny Ramirez...and that may be about it. At least Mather seems to be a decent fielder.

Keeping Duncan on the bench and using him only as a pinch hitter in lefty-righty situations and maybe starting him once a week to rest an outfielder, is ok by me I guess. But Duncan was getting a lot of starts and a lot of at bats...which he shouldn't have been based on how he was playing.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Leedog wrote:
How 'bout Duncan circa '06, the last time he was healthy. Would he fit in? People want to bitch ever ytime he has trouble in the outfield. How come Ankiel gets a pass? He is constantly misjudging fly balls and twisting and turning out there. I'd be curious to see how many pro games each has played OF. I doubt Duncan has played many more. Not rippin on Ankiel, just stickin up for Duncan.


Ankiel has taken some bad routes to balls...no doubt.
But Ankiel also makes some amazing catches and has the best arm I have ever seen in the outfield.
Comparing Duncan to Ankiel in the outfield is like comparing apples and sandpaper.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:47 am 
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cprice12 wrote:
OS wrote:
Did you not see how atrocious that Nick Stavinoha looked last night? And while we're on the subject of mediocre Cardinals outfielders, I don't get the love affair with Joe Mather. He's Chris Duncan with a different last name. Mather is batting .247 with a god-awful .312 OBP. Duncan was batting .248 with a .346 OBP. By no means do I think that Duncan is a great player, but he'd be more valuable to our bench than either one of these two.


I don't care for Stavinoha either...and Mather hasn't been anything great, but to be fair...they haven't played that much (Stavinoha has only had 24 major league at bats and Mather only 86 at bats). Judging them based on relatively few at bats at the very beginning of their careers, is a bit harsh.
I think Mather could be a good player...he just needs more experience.

Duncan, however, has played in over 300 games, and has gotten progressively worse during his short career. Duncan has huge holes in his swing and hasn't been able to adjust once people figured out how to exploit those holes...plus he is one of the worst outfielders I have ever seen. He's a better fielder than Manny Ramirez...and that may be about it. At least Mather seems to be a decent fielder.

Keeping Duncan on the bench and using him only as a pinch hitter in lefty-righty situations and maybe starting him once a week to rest an outfielder, is ok by me I guess. But Duncan was getting a lot of starts and a lot of at bats...which he shouldn't have been based on how he was playing.


You don't think the holes in Duncans swing may have been created, or at least expanded by a potential career ending neck injury? I guess the pitchers finally figured out Larry Walker's weaknesses too.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:17 pm 
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Leedog wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
OS wrote:
Did you not see how atrocious that Nick Stavinoha looked last night? And while we're on the subject of mediocre Cardinals outfielders, I don't get the love affair with Joe Mather. He's Chris Duncan with a different last name. Mather is batting .247 with a god-awful .312 OBP. Duncan was batting .248 with a .346 OBP. By no means do I think that Duncan is a great player, but he'd be more valuable to our bench than either one of these two.


I don't care for Stavinoha either...and Mather hasn't been anything great, but to be fair...they haven't played that much (Stavinoha has only had 24 major league at bats and Mather only 86 at bats). Judging them based on relatively few at bats at the very beginning of their careers, is a bit harsh.
I think Mather could be a good player...he just needs more experience.

Duncan, however, has played in over 300 games, and has gotten progressively worse during his short career. Duncan has huge holes in his swing and hasn't been able to adjust once people figured out how to exploit those holes...plus he is one of the worst outfielders I have ever seen. He's a better fielder than Manny Ramirez...and that may be about it. At least Mather seems to be a decent fielder.

Keeping Duncan on the bench and using him only as a pinch hitter in lefty-righty situations and maybe starting him once a week to rest an outfielder, is ok by me I guess. But Duncan was getting a lot of starts and a lot of at bats...which he shouldn't have been based on how he was playing.


You don't think the holes in Duncans swing may have been created, or at least expanded by a potential career ending neck injury? I guess the pitchers finally figured out Larry Walker's weaknesses too.


Duncan sucked to finish last season, he sucked in spring training, and he has sucked all of this season.
It's not his neck.

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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Duncan out for year
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:10 pm 
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cprice12 wrote:

Ankiel...has the best arm I have ever seen in the outfield.


David Justice had the best arm in the outfield of any player over the last 20 years. Not too many people can gun Kenny Lofton from RF in 2009, let alone in 1995 when Justice did it in the WS.

Ankiel does have a cannon, which is why he would be suited to RF if he could get the rest of his fielding abilities together.

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