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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:21 am 
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cprice12 wrote:
The stadium isn't going to be built unless the Rams are staying. That has been stated publicly.
So that scenario wouldn't even present itself...so Grubman obviously doesn't know what he is talking about on that point.


Actually, the city of STL is saying that they want to remain a viable NFL city, regardless if the Rams leave, and this stadium is the ticket to that.

http://m.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2 ... -rams.html

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St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay and St. Louis County Executive Steve Stenger said Friday that they were encouraged by a meeting Thursday with a National Football League official.

Slay vowed to move forward with Dave Peacock's plan to build a new 64,000-seat, $900 million stadium on downtown's north riverfront by 2020.

"We're going to follow it through," Slay said. "It will make it difficult for the Rams to leave." Even if Stan Kroenke does move the Rams, Slay said, "we will be poised to keep St. Louis an NFL city."

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:23 am 
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Oaklandblue wrote:
The Rams are not moving out of St. Louis. I don't care what any city official, state govenor or former player or general manager says, the NFL has to approve the move and it has yet to even be approached at the NFL level. It's all idle threats and bullshit being done as a scare tactic to get a stadium built. They ain't going anywhere.


I get that what all of those people say doesn't matter, but we have a message board troll that says they're moving. And not just ANY message board troll. One that RANdomlY capitalIZES things and quoteS people we'Ve NEVER heaArd of.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:24 am 
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glen a richter wrote:
Did I see right that "it does not matter" what the facts are the first time you spew crap, and then when you get called on it it's okay because there's still some point to be made out of the lies that you spewed the first time?

I'm just trying to make sense out of the nonsense pouring out of your keyboard, JNE. The proper thing to do when someone calls BS and backs it up is to say "I was mistaken. I should have done a little more research beforehand." Not try to cover yourself by saying "It does not matter!" Even all your teachers and, presumably, your parents taught you that when you were younger!


No, YOU are the one who is mistaken and didn't do research! The "does not matter" comment was about the KC stadium which has NOTHING to do with our situation! Even a high level NFL exec like Grubman says the NFL bylaws are NOT etched in stone which means billionaires don't have to follow them if they don't want to!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:31 am 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
I still trust Ray Hartman on this because he has been 100is right on thiit issue since 2010. Not to mention several othein prominent St.Louisans who say the stadium will never happen. Hartman also brought up a great point saying Kroenke wouldn't have gone to all this trouble if he couldn't move the team. And now even the NFL admits they don't have to follow their own by laws which paves the way for the Rams to leave!


I don't know who Ray Hartman is or what he's said, so please cite specific examples with links and quotes please. Thanks.


Are you a baby & expect me to spoofeed you? You know there is something called the internet where you can easily look it up? I did it for you this time so just click the link below to see the last few episodes.

Ray Hartman has been right about everything on the Rams since 2010! He says the Rams are gone and there is 0% chance the stadium gets built. He has more connections and insight than any of us.



http://ninenet.org/local-productions/donnybrook


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:59 am 
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John Clayton says NFL will block Kroenke from moving.

http://www.101sports.com/2015/01/15/joh ... ke-moving/

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:12 am 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
I still trust Ray Hartman on this because he has been 100is right on thiit issue since 2010. Not to mention several othein prominent St.Louisans who say the stadium will never happen. Hartman also brought up a great point saying Kroenke wouldn't have gone to all this trouble if he couldn't move the team. And now even the NFL admits they don't have to follow their own by laws which paves the way for the Rams to leave!


I don't know who Ray Hartman is or what he's said, so please cite specific examples with links and quotes please. Thanks.


Are you a baby & expect me to spoofeed you? You know there is something called the internet where you can easily look it up? I did it for you this time so just click the link below to see the last few episodes.

Ray Hartman has been right about everything on the Rams since 2010! He says the Rams are gone and there is 0% chance the stadium gets built. He has more connections and insight than any of us.



http://ninenet.org/local-productions/donnybrook


I CAN LOOK IT UP?!? Good golly gee me, I never once thought of that.

I want to know 'everything' that Rick Heartmun has been 'right' 'about' 'on the Rams' 'since 2010,' so I'm asking you, much as a teacher would, to cite your arguments with specific examples with links and quotes. You have failed to do this. As Viper would say, 'F-.'

For the record, I googled Ray Hartman prior to your response, and the words 'Donnybrook' never came up. Understand, please, that I don't live in St. Louis and there are plenty of Ray Hartman's in the world that came up on the list prior to the one you are referencing. Seems to be a little peon if you ask me.

Also, I don't know what spoofeeding is, but it sounds kinda sexy.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:16 am 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
I still trust Ray Hartman on this because he has been 100is right on thiit issue since 2010. Not to mention several othein prominent St.Louisans who say the stadium will never happen. Hartman also brought up a great point saying Kroenke wouldn't have gone to all this trouble if he couldn't move the team. And now even the NFL admits they don't have to follow their own by laws which paves the way for the Rams to leave!


I don't know who Ray Hartman is or what he's said, so please cite specific examples with links and quotes please. Thanks.


Are you a baby & expect me to spoofeed you? You know there is something called the internet where you can easily look it up? I did it for you this time so just click the link below to see the last few episodes.

Ray Hartman has been right about everything on the Rams since 2010! He says the Rams are gone and there is 0% chance the stadium gets built. He has more connections and insight than any of us.



http://ninenet.org/local-productions/donnybrook


I CAN LOOK IT UP?!? Good golly gee me, I never once thought of that.

I want to know 'everything' that Rick Heartmun has been 'right' 'about' 'on the Rams' 'since 2010,' so I'm asking you, much as a teacher would, to cite your arguments with specific examples with links and quotes. You have failed to do this. As Viper would say, 'F-.'

For the record, I googled Ray Hartman prior to your response, and the words 'Donnybrook' never came up. Understand, please, that I don't live in St. Louis and there are plenty of Ray Hartman's in the world that came up on the list prior to the one you are referencing. Seems to be a little peon if you ask me.

Also, I don't know what spoofeeding is, but it sounds kinda sexy.


I googled his name too and still didn't know who he was. Apparently he founded The Riverfront Times, but sold it in 1998. No idea whether he's insightful or a hack, but him saying the Rams are leaving doesn't move the needle for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:25 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
I still trust Ray Hartman on this because he has been 100is right on thiit issue since 2010. Not to mention several othein prominent St.Louisans who say the stadium will never happen. Hartman also brought up a great point saying Kroenke wouldn't have gone to all this trouble if he couldn't move the team. And now even the NFL admits they don't have to follow their own by laws which paves the way for the Rams to leave!


I don't know who Ray Hartman is or what he's said, so please cite specific examples with links and quotes please. Thanks.


Are you a baby & expect me to spoofeed you? You know there is something called the internet where you can easily look it up? I did it for you this time so just click the link below to see the last few episodes.

Ray Hartman has been right about everything on the Rams since 2010! He says the Rams are gone and there is 0% chance the stadium gets built. He has more connections and insight than any of us.



http://ninenet.org/local-productions/donnybrook


Nope.
If you are going to claim this and that, or claim so and so said this or that as part of your stance during a discussion....YOU need to cite your source. It's not on anyone else to find that info. It's on you. Especially if challenged on it. And if you don't or can't provide your source, then you're full of shit as far as this board is concerned.

You don't turn in papers on college without sources cited, and then tell the professor to look it up if he wants to see the source. That's ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:12 am 
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So we've all laid our cards down on the table. Both stadiums are just a pipe dream at this stage. But the BIG difference is Kroenke doesn't even want to be here which is why most people in the know say the Rams are gone. Even Grubman just said the NFL doesn't have to follow their own by laws and he could NOT assure us the Rams would stay even IF we build a BILLION dollar stadium!

Just based on that alone there is NO WAY a financially strapped region like ours will build a stadium knowing the team can leave anyway!

2 KEY points Peacock made that you must remember:

1.The stadium won't be built UNLESS they KNOW the Rams are staying and the league already said they CANNOT do that.

2. Even Peacock admitted there are still many hurdles, both legal & geographical, to getting the stadium built. Some historical groups have already said they will file lawsuits to prevent razing of historic buildings. You know that can be tied up in court for YEARS!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:28 am 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
So we've all laid our cards down on the table. Both stadiums are just a pipe dream at this stage. But the BIG difference is Kroenke doesn't even want to be here which is why most people in the know say the Rams are gone. Even Grubman just said the NFL doesn't have to follow their own by laws and he could NOT assure us the Rams would stay even IF we build a BILLION dollar stadium!

Just based on that alone there is NO WAY a financially strapped region like ours will build a stadium knowing the team can leave anyway!

2 KEY points Peacock made that you must remember:

1.The stadium won't be built UNLESS they KNOW the Rams are staying and the league already said they CANNOT do that.

2. Even Peacock admitted there are still many hurdles, both legal & geographical, to getting the stadium built. Some historical groups have already said they will file lawsuits to prevent razing of historic buildings. You know that can be tied up in court for YEARS!


Hey look, John Clayton said the NFL will block Kroenke. People saying stuff with a link!

http://www.101sports.com/2015/01/15/joh ... ke-moving/

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:56 am 
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And team owners voted 21-3 AGAINST the Rams moving from LA to St.Louis yet they moved anyway! Grubman just said the bylaws are NOT etched in stone so the Rams could hypothetically move again even if 21 owners were against it just like they were back then!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:49 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
And team owners voted 21-3 AGAINST the Rams moving from LA to St.Louis yet they moved anyway! Grubman just said the bylaws are NOT etched in stone so the Rams could hypothetically move again even if 21 owners were against it just like they were back then!


Yes, we know. Shit, you've said that so many times my neighbors know and they don't even read the forum. Yes, he could move even without the vote. But, he has said he won't. Probably because it will cost him 10 figures in fines, lost revenue, penalties, etc. So, yeah, he could move without the vote, but he's not going to. Because while he may be a smug asshole, he's not a total moron.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:03 pm 
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LOL..you believe him just because he says so??

Businessman bluff all the time. That's part of doing business. Especially billionaire businessmen. Or he could simply say he changef his mind. The bottom line is he is NOT talking to anyone here and has clearly shown his hand that he wants to move!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:51 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
LOL..you believe him just because he says so??

Businessman bluff all the time. That's part of doing business. Especially billionaire businessmen. Or he could simply say he changef his mind. The bottom line is he is NOT talking to anyone here and has clearly shown his hand that he wants to move!


When somebody says they aren't going to do something that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars in fines, yes, I believe them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Hell, I'm not even saying they won't move there. I think there's a pretty decent chance they do. I just don't think he will at the expense of those fines. The point of moving them there would be to make more money. Loss of NFL TV revenue would defeat the purpose.

I think there's a far better chance that the league gives him permission than him moving the team anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:47 am 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
And team owners voted 21-3 AGAINST the Rams moving from LA to St.Louis yet they moved anyway! Grubman just said the bylaws are NOT etched in stone so the Rams could hypothetically move again even if 21 owners were against it just like they were back then!


Actually, the owners blocked the move during the first vote. Then some money was thrown around and they voted again and it passed it during a second vote. So the Rams did NOT move despite a vote against. The league approved the move and then the Rams moved.

But that is all pointless because their rules and policies are way different and more strict now. That kind of thing won't happen again. Those making comments on this seem to keep forgetting that point. The NFL rules for moving are drastically different than they were back then. It's much harder to move a team now...and Kroenke won't go rogue and move the team if the league votes against the Rams moving. That's just not going to happen as Kroenke could lost up to $3 billion of his own money AND his net worth would decline after that by going rogue. That's over half his net worth and that just isn't going to happen.

I'll say it again...if the stadium passes and is approved to be built, Kroenke basically can't move the team. No way the NFL lets the Rams move if we have a stadium plan approved and ready to be built. No team has ever moved with a stadium plan in place, which is important because it used to be much easier to move a team.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:25 pm 
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Even Grubman said he CANNOT assure the Rams won't move even if the stadium is built. Plus he CLEARLY said NFL bylaws are NOT etched in stone which means the Rams can move regardless of any vote.

For those 2 reasons alone I bet the stadium never gets built.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:57 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
Even Grubman said he CANNOT assure the Rams won't move even if the stadium is built. Plus he CLEARLY said NFL bylaws are NOT etched in stone which means the Rams can move regardless of any vote.

For those 2 reasons alone I bet the stadium never gets built.


Since you don't know how to provide sources, I'll do it for you.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... 6f2bd.html
Your quote from Grubman comes from this question:
Quote:
"If the stadium plan becomes a reality, is there a scenario in which Kroenke would still be allowed to move the Rams to LA?"

This is his response:
Quote:
“That's a great question which I don't know how to answer because that's subject to the twin pillars of relocation guideline and votes. The relocation guidelines are not absolute etched in stone. There's subjective judgments that have to be made. So I can't guess that probability. But on the other hand there's votes, which I don't control. But what's clear is, if a market has a franchise, and that franchise has been supported, and can be supported, and that franchise can enjoy a healthy existence, that's a central plank of Roger Goodell's commissionership. And I don't take that lightly.


IF the stadium plan becomes a reality, St. Louis meets his list of requirments...St. Louis has supported the Rams, they will support the Rams, they can enjoy a healthy existence. If the NFL is serious about anything that is written, then it would be very difficult for Kroenke to move the Rams IF a stadium plan is approved...whether it be this one or a variation of this one (and there will be tweaks made to this stadium plan if it is to get approval.)

Another tidbit from Bernie's article:
Quote:
If Kroenke bolts in defiance of the league would the league go as far to try and strip the team from him?

Grubman: “I have no idea what the league would do. But I do know there are tremendous tools available. There's a charter and bylaws and there's ample authority in the commissioner's office to make sure that everybody follows the rules. That's what we are, we're a league of rules. Having something which is a subjective judgment subjected to a vote is very different than having a league without rules.

"We're going to follow the rules, all the clubs are going to follow the rules. There are subjective judgments that are going to be made, there are going to be recommendations that are analyzed and then made, but everybody's going to follow the rules.”


Maybe it's what he is supposed to say, but as long as we are quoting people...Grubman says teams will follow the rules.

If Kroenke is going to complain about not enough corporate sponsorships or whatever, then if I was the NFL, I'd say, "Maybe you shouldn't have bought the team a few years ago then. And maybe you should just sell them to someone else if you are that unhappy. St. Louis wants to keep the team, and if they get a stadium plan approved, the team is staying there."

Nobody is forcing Kroenke to retain ownership of the team.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:07 pm 
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I don't think that's just what he's supposed to say. It would be idiotic for the league to have rules, let an owner violate them in such an enormous way, and then not to take action. There's one entity in the country that the NFL absolutely does not want looking over its shoulder: the government, more specifically Congress. The domestic violence issues during the past year and how the NFL handled them got the attention of some Congressmen. The last thing the NFL wants is for Congress to take a bigger look at its anti-trust exemptions.

It's possible Kroenke will get the votes to move to LA as I suspect that he wishes. But, if he doesn't and he still tries to move anyway, I'd be absolutely shocked if the NFL doesn't come down extremely hard on him. It's in the league's best interest to make Kroenke follow the vote or pay for going rogue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Mike Claiborne of KMOX says there is no way the stadium is built.


Last Friday, the St. Louis contingent submitted their plan to save the Rams, or should I say, pro football in St. Louis. They showed some very nice drawings that were reminiscent of those unveiled by the City of Inglewood, California the week before. Kudos to David Peacock and Bob Blitz for putting this plan for St. Louis together, as they have certainly shown some leadership and vision at a critical stage for the survival of the NFL in St. Louis.

However, if you are thinking this plan will save the Rams, think again. I am willing to wager there will never be a shovel full of dirt turned over to help Stan Kroenke and his current St. Louis football setup. There will be no need to run out and buy some silver shovels and hard hats for the groundbreaking ceremony. It’s not going to happen.

For one thing, the Rams are not worthy of saving under the current ownership. How can you negotiate with a team when you have not yet had the owner in the same room? This is all for show.

As for the show plan, it is flawed on many levels. Let’s start with the concept of having an open-air stadium. 

An open-air stadium is nice for that limited group of so-called football purists who think it’s a good idea to sit outside in freezing weather to watch bad football. To have an open-air stadium where you could play a maximum of 12 dates a year for the NFL leaves you with a whole lot of open dates. Throw in a pro soccer team, which we don’t yet have, and you may add 15 more scheduled dates. An outdoor concert or two gets you to over a month of bookings. Last  time I checked, the year has 11 more months of days. What else is left after eliminating mid-January through at least April? 





http://m.stlamerican.com/sports/sports_ ... l?mode=jqm


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