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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:06 am 
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Miles, Comrade, Misc. Blues, and the rest of you soccer guys what do you think of this?

Unfortunately it wouldn't let me cut and paste the article but see for yourself below. St.Louis ranked 37th in the nation for World Cup ratings and even Dan Caesar called that "abysmal". I know you can say it doesn't include bars and restaurants but ALL cities don't include bars and restaurants so it is a fair comparison.

Like I told you guys I don't think St.Louis is THAT much of a soccer hotbed anymore. In the 1950s we were #1 but now I bet there are a dozen cities where soccer is bigger. Look how disappointed soccer guru Bill McDermott was with these awful ratings. Doesn't bode well for St.Louis getting an MLS team! Like I said I doubt it would be viable long term.


http://m.stltoday.com/entertainment/tel ... touch=true


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:13 pm 
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I don't think ratings mean as much as they used to. I know a lot of people watch streams now because you can find better coverage. I watched most every game on BBC and itv because the coverage was better. I watch every Liverpool game on Sky Sports or BT sport because of better coverage. I think American analysts are the worst. They want to talk about this that and the other besides the sport. I was watching an MLS game not too long ago and the announcers were talking about MLB teams and players and then the ball goes in the net and they were were not sure who got the goal until they replayed it twice and then corrected their selves. They are idiots. You almost never know who has the ball. If you were trying to gain fans for the sport you would want to know who player x is until you know that player is Beckerman or Dempsey. When a team from Belgium is playing you might not know who Origi or Lukaku is. Ratings suck because of a lot of things.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:20 pm 
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Even if you factor in those issues you mention people in other cities stream too but the ratings still suck here. Even legendary St.Louis soccer guru was shocked and disappointed.

The bottom line is you MUST have ratings for a sport to succeed. You don't think if the bulk of fans streamed the AFC/NFL Championship or Super Bowl the NFL would call that a success? The very reason the NFL is considered the most popular sport in America is because its TV ratings blow away all other sports!

If soccer doesn't get the ratings it will never be big in America and it could be an ominous sign for the chances of MLS success here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:05 pm 
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I get what you are saying.

USA for some reason are used to TV breaks for all sports except that soccer doesn't break for 45 minutes. I hate commercials, most of what they are advertising doesn't interest me at all. I think Americans especially have addictive natures...more faster better stronger...more more more they want more but most don't like commercials for the most part unless it's the Super Bowl which half the people tune in just for the commercials. Case in point my ex-wife's family would have a Super Bowl Party(at least 50 people sometimes up to a hundred and no I'm not kidding) every year and most never knew who was playing at the time. It was just a thing to do for them to have a party. So take that into consideration as well. I know people don't watch soccer and probably won't because of a lot of factors. It's an up hill battle that's for sure but soccer has come a long way from where it was 20 years ago but so has the NHL so there is hope. I hear people all the time say how that can't stand hockey because of the fighting. and then I ask have you been to a game in the last 10 years or at all. Hockey has changed so much over the years from what it used to be. You would never see a Stanley Cup Final series on NBC,CBS,Fox or ABC 20-25 years ago but they have progressed. The USMNT needs to win something or there needs to be a World tourney with MLS,EPL,Serie A, La Liga and so on. As long as the US MLS is considered a retirement home for other bigger leagues or a lesser league team the ratings won't get better. I think in the next 10-15 years (which I know is a long time) the MLS will continue to grow or at least I hope so.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:05 pm 
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You realize that's what they said in 1996 yet almost 20 years later the WNBA gets higher ratings and MLS ratings are still microscopic?

You are very right that the soccer culture doesn't exist here like it does in Europe which greatly hurts MLS. The reason people watch the World Cup is because 2 BILLION people worldwide watch it making it the largest event on earth PERIOD! All big 4 American sports have commercial breaks along with college sports.

Plus the big money multimillion dollar contracts exist across the board only in the big 4 sports. Really big money only exists for the top 2 designated players on an MLS team. Even then it's not as big. Do Zusi or Besler even make as much as Berglund does?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:14 am 
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Any idea if St. Louis = St. Louis City or St. Louis Metro? That could make a pretty sizable difference. In fact I'm going to go ahead and change "pretty sizable" to "(Franking) HUGE".

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:45 pm 
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ComradeT wrote:
Any idea if St. Louis = St. Louis City or St. Louis Metro? That could make a pretty sizable difference. In fact I'm going to go ahead and change "pretty sizable" to "(Frank) HUGE".


It's the entire metro area of approximately 2.8 million people. They would NEVER do just the city because St.Louis city has been shrinking for decades and only has around 300,000 people!

The low ratings are a huge blow to St.Louis' reputation as a big soccer as Bill McDermott ' s shock and disappointment shows. I have real doubts as whether MLS can succeed here long term. MLS is not must see TV like the NFL or hockey playoffs are.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:20 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
ComradeT wrote:
Any idea if St. Louis = St. Louis City or St. Louis Metro? That could make a pretty sizable difference. In fact I'm going to go ahead and change "pretty sizable" to "(Frank) HUGE".


It's the entire metro area of approximately 2.8 million people. They would NEVER do just the city because St.Louis city has been shrinking for decades and only has around 300,000 people!

The low ratings are a huge blow to St.Louis' reputation as a big soccer as Bill McDermott ' s shock and disappointment shows. I have real doubts as whether MLS can succeed here long term. MLS is not must see TV like the NFL or hockey playoffs are.


Is it based on any real information or your own thoughts that never existed? The only reason I'm asking is that the crime stats, as we all know, are compiled based on the City of St. Louis area and not on metro area.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:45 pm 
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This has nothing to do with crime stats. Crime stats are compiled separately for the city and the county.

But Nielsen calculates ratings for the entire metro area just like they do for all other metro areas. There is no sugar coating it. The ratings for St.Louis were awful. Even Bill McDermott couldn't defend it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:37 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
This has nothing to do with crime stats. Crime stats are compiled separately for the city and the county.

But Nielsen calculates ratings for the entire metro area just like they do for all other metro areas. There is no sugar coating it. The ratings for St.Louis were awful. Even Bill McDermott couldn't defend it.


Thanks for clarifying, JNE. Very low ratings, indeed. Wonder if this had to do with the great summer we have been enjoying or the fact that most of the games were on during work time. I watched every game of the world cup, but the early ones I watched at work and the late ones through a Russian internet TV service, neither of which would have been captured by Nielsen.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:46 am 
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Considering the World Cup was in this hemisphere there was usually a prime time game on and overall times were more favorable as opposed to South Africa 2010 or Germany 2006.

But the weather is great point. There was even a story on the local news recently how the pool attendance has been low this summer because of the cool weather! I guess people don't want to be inside watching TV.

Soccer is just not that big of a draw here unless the USMNT goes deep in the WC.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:31 am 
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I know it's cliche, but the whole "getting kicked in the shins, rolling around in pain, then hopping right up" thing is ridiculous. I didn't watch much of the World Cup, but I caught the end of the final game. One of the German players was getting hurt and falling down over and over and over. I counted like 6 times in the span of 20 minutes. At one point he was actually bleeding from his head, so I'll give him that one, but the rest of it is crazy. I saw part of an MLS game the other night at a restaurant, and it was the same thing. "Oh, that guy kicked me in the shin guard! I need the trainer!!"

Give me hockey any day.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:55 am 
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big d note wrote:
I know it's cliche, but the whole "getting kicked in the shins, rolling around in pain, then hopping right up" thing is ridiculous. I didn't watch much of the World Cup, but I caught the end of the final game. One of the German players was getting hurt and falling down over and over and over. I counted like 6 times in the span of 20 minutes. At one point he was actually bleeding from his head, so I'll give him that one, but the rest of it is crazy. I saw part of an MLS game the other night at a restaurant, and it was the same thing. "Oh, that guy kicked me in the shin guard! I need the trainer!!"

Give me hockey any day.


You know how hockey players are slow to get up after being kneed? Well, someone whacking you on the shin, calf, around the knee, or sinking their studs in there while slide tackling you feels similar to that. It doesn't look like much because it happens very fast but trust me it hurts like hell. My shin bone had a bump on it size of a good apple for a few weeks once after getting studs on the shin. I have no problem with guys taking a minute to get up after they get clattered. Plus, keep in mind, this was the end of the game, in extra time, approaching a 2-hour mark in the game. It's much harder to shake a tackle off when you have been running for almost two hours.

That said, there is a a lot of diving and falling while trying to avoid a tackle and then pretending that it got you. That has been discussed here at length and is not liked by anyone at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Yeah isn't there a term they use in international soccer for players who dive even if someone just breathes on them? :lol:

It's called flopping right?

I agree Comrade with the shin kicks but that's IF they actually make contact. Too many times they either barely make contact or don't at all and act like they've been SHOT! :lol: In one of the earlier World Cups Rivaldo of Brazil made such an obvious dive it was all over the highlight reels.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:16 am 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
Yeah isn't there a term they use in international soccer for players who dive even if someone just breathes on them? :lol:

It's called flopping right?

I agree Comrade with the shin kicks but that's IF they actually make contact. Too many times they either barely make contact or don't at all and act like they've been SHOT! :lol: In one of the earlier World Cups Rivaldo of Brazil made such an obvious dive it was all over the highlight reels.


You ever watched a Detroit Red Wings game? Or a Vancouver Canucks game? Plenty of flopping there.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:58 pm 
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But soccer is so boring it puts you to sleep. Hockey doesn't.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:46 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
Yeah isn't there a term they use in international soccer for players who dive even if someone just breathes on them? :lol:

It's called flopping right?

I agree Comrade with the shin kicks but that's IF they actually make contact. Too many times they either barely make contact or don't at all and act like they've been SHOT! :lol: In one of the earlier World Cups Rivaldo of Brazil made such an obvious dive it was all over the highlight reels.


I agree with you. I was responding about comments referring to a particular player during a particular part of the game.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:53 pm 
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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
But soccer is so boring it puts you to sleep. Hockey doesn't.


I know plenty of people who would rather watch baseball than hockey because they don't understand hockey as well as they do baseball, since they have watched baseball since they were little and weren't exposed to hockey at all. I think everything is based on how well you understand a certain sport. If you spend time studying hockey, you will appreciate it beyond the fights and the hits, which alone are really not enough to attract a meaningful audience. Soccer is much the same way. If you understand it, you can follow the game along the pitch and appreciate both offensive and defensive plays, the slow build-up or a quick counterattack. You reaction is as natural as that of a guy on the edge of his seat the entire 90 minutes of a 0-0 draw because a goal can decide a championship. I can't watch golf for example and there are many guys at work that would watch it, analyze it, pick up technique tips or learn something new about golf courses, golfers, etc. Some people like watching poker. To each is own.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:23 pm 
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ComradeT wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
But soccer is so boring it puts you to sleep. Hockey doesn't.


I know plenty of people who would rather watch baseball than hockey because they don't understand hockey as well as they do baseball, since they have watched baseball since they were little and weren't exposed to hockey at all. I think everything is based on how well you understand a certain sport. If you spend time studying hockey, you will appreciate it beyond the fights and the hits, which alone are really not enough to attract a meaningful audience. Soccer is much the same way. If you understand it, you can follow the game along the pitch and appreciate both offensive and defensive plays, the slow build-up or a quick counterattack. You reaction is as natural as that of a guy on the edge of his seat the entire 90 minutes of a 0-0 draw because a goal can decide a championship. I can't watch golf for example and there are many guys at work that would watch it, analyze it, pick up technique tips or learn something new about golf courses, golfers, etc. Some people like watching poker. To each is own.


I agree with all of this. Jesusain'treal, you say hockey doesn't put you to sleep, but I know several people who think hockey is boring, simply because (as Comrade states), they don't understand it.

I was watching an MLS match this afternoon, and it sort of occurred to me how it differs from the top American sports. You look at a sport like basketball or football, and realize that every play is like a 45 second Youtube clip. Short, sometimes memorable, sometimes not. But because it is so short and adds up as you watch other clips, it cures that part of us that needs instant satisfaction.

Soccer is like a book or a movie. Sometimes it starts slow and flourishes at the end. Sometimes it's pretty slow paced throughout, but a few memorable 'scenes' that you remember. Either way, there are story lines throughout that you can follow as you watch (i.e. a team playing a man down, one team getting loads of set pieces, one team hitting the woodwork X number of times, etc.). It's all part of a greater whole. You can jump in at any time, but it's better to understand how all the threads are playing out to understand the ebb and flow.

It goes back to Comrade's point about understanding what you are watching. Some people appreciate this. Others just want the quick, instant satisfaction over and over and over and over.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:06 pm 
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dmiles2186 wrote:
ComradeT wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
But soccer is so boring it puts you to sleep. Hockey doesn't.


I know plenty of people who would rather watch baseball than hockey because they don't understand hockey as well as they do baseball, since they have watched baseball since they were little and weren't exposed to hockey at all. I think everything is based on how well you understand a certain sport. If you spend time studying hockey, you will appreciate it beyond the fights and the hits, which alone are really not enough to attract a meaningful audience. Soccer is much the same way. If you understand it, you can follow the game along the pitch and appreciate both offensive and defensive plays, the slow build-up or a quick counterattack. You reaction is as natural as that of a guy on the edge of his seat the entire 90 minutes of a 0-0 draw because a goal can decide a championship. I can't watch golf for example and there are many guys at work that would watch it, analyze it, pick up technique tips or learn something new about golf courses, golfers, etc. Some people like watching poker. To each is own.


I agree with all of this. Jesusain'treal, you say hockey doesn't put you to sleep, but I know several people who think hockey is boring, simply because (as Comrade states), they don't understand it.

I was watching an MLS match this afternoon, and it sort of occurred to me how it differs from the top American sports. You look at a sport like basketball or football, and realize that every play is like a 45 second Youtube clip. Short, sometimes memorable, sometimes not. But because it is so short and adds up as you watch other clips, it cures that part of us that needs instant satisfaction.

Soccer is like a book or a movie. Sometimes it starts slow and flourishes at the end. Sometimes it's pretty slow paced throughout, but a few memorable 'scenes' that you remember. Either way, there are story lines throughout that you can follow as you watch (i.e. a team playing a man down, one team getting loads of set pieces, one team hitting the woodwork X number of times, etc.). It's all part of a greater whole. You can jump in at any time, but it's better to understand how all the threads are playing out to understand the ebb and flow.

It goes back to Comrade's point about understanding what you are watching. Some people appreciate this. Others just want the quick, instant satisfaction over and over and over and over.


Dude, so weird. I didn't put the words down but I was definitely thinking all of the same analogies.

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