Tracking the Improbable...

[Hollywood]

Pronger was our most valuable trade chip coming off of the lockout as well...I'd still rather have him now.

Are you really comparing Pronger to Guerin? C'mon Curt, I know you are grasping for straws here but don't stretch that far.


7 million for a 35 year old center that doesn't score is too much

[cprice12]

Pronger was our most valuable trade chip coming off of the lockout as well...I'd still rather have him now.

Are you really comparing Pronger to Guerin? C'mon Curt, I know you are grasping for straws here but don't stretch that far.


7 million for a 35 year old center that doesn't score is too much

I wasn't comparing Pronger to Guerin.
You said Guerin is our most valuable trade commodity and therfore he should be traded. Coming out of the lockout, Pronger was our most valuable trade commodity and we traded him. That move hasn't worked out like we had hoped and we are a worse team partly because of that move.
Just because a guy is your most valuable trade commodity, doesn't mean you should trade him.

Sometimes players get paid for things other than goals. And Weight does lead the team in assists and is a great leader.
If you are just looking at his goal total, he probably does make a bit too much money...but we aren't even close to the cap, so who cares? His extra million or so a year isn't costing us any players. He showed a lot of loyalty in wanting to come back after being traded. We got free players in the deal. I think it's fine to give him a little extra for that.

[OS]

Yes, because you both know for sure that they would have played at this pace for 60 games.

Dingâ„¢ Dong.

That's the thing though... they wouldn't need to be at this pace all season to be competing. If they were on a pace somewhere between Kitchen and Murray for the first 28 games they'd still be contending this year.

[Hollywood]

Pronger was our most valuable trade chip coming off of the lockout as well...I'd still rather have him now.

Are you really comparing Pronger to Guerin? C'mon Curt, I know you are grasping for straws here but don't stretch that far.


7 million for a 35 year old center that doesn't score is too much

I wasn't comparing Pronger to Guerin.
You said Guerin is our most valuable trade commodity and therfore he should be traded. Coming out of the lockout, Pronger was our most valuable trade commodity and we traded him. That move hasn't worked out like we had hoped and we are a worse team partly because of that move.
Just because a guy is your most valuable trade commodity, doesn't mean you should trade him.

Sometimes players get paid for things other than goals. And Weight does lead the team in assists and is a great leader.
If you are just looking at his goal total, he probably does make a bit too much money...but we aren't even close to the cap, so who cares? His extra million or so a year isn't costing us any players. He showed a lot of loyalty in wanting to come back after being traded. We got free players in the deal. I think it's fine to give him a little extra for that.

Alexander Ovechkin is Washingtons best trade commodity, I would not reccommend them trading him.

There is a difference between a 32 year old best defenseman in the game and a 36 year old power forward that is going to be a UFA at the end of the season.

Sure, Weight brings some intangibles. So does Mayers. I would not want to over pay for either of them. Ok, the Blues are under the cap. Thats great. But when it comes time for free agency time, I'd rather have say 15 million to spend than 12 million to spend. 3 million could be the difference between getting a guy like Drury or Briere and a guy like Dvorak or Rucinsky. So just because they are under the cap now, does not mean that over paying for someone is "no big deal"

[TC]

I'd rather have say 15 million to spend than 12 million to spend. 3 million could be the difference between getting a guy like Drury or Briere and a guy like Dvorak or Rucinsky.

i just threw up in my mouth a little.

[BringBackZezel]

Yes, because you both know for sure that they would have played at this pace for 60 games.

Dingâ„¢ Dong.

That's the thing though... they wouldn't need to be at this pace all season to be competing. If they were on a pace somewhere between Kitchen and Murray for the first 28 games they'd still be contending this year.

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

And if the Blues had traded away Hull, Turgeon, Demitra, Young (1st time around) and others before they walked via free agency, they would have a much better team now, due to the assets that they would have gotten in return.

You can play the if game all you'd like.

[OS]

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

And if the Blues had traded away Hull, Turgeon, Demitra, Young (1st time around) and others before they walked via free agency, they would have a much better team now, due to the assets that they would have gotten in return.

You can play the if game all you'd like.

Are you honestly still trying to claim that the Blues should hvae traded away their UFA's when they were trying to win a Cup? Yea, in hindsight that would have been better for the ROSTER (not necessarily for the franchise as a whole) but considering the fact that you absolute DID NOT say that they should make those trades at that time you have no right to say now that they should have. Get over it.

[BringBackZezel]

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

And if the Blues had traded away Hull, Turgeon, Demitra, Young (1st time around) and others before they walked via free agency, they would have a much better team now, due to the assets that they would have gotten in return.

You can play the if game all you'd like.

Are you honestly still trying to claim that the Blues should hvae traded away their UFA's when they were trying to win a Cup? Yea, in hindsight that would have been better for the ROSTER (not necessarily for the franchise as a whole) but considering the fact that you absolute DID NOT say that they should make those trades at that time you have no right to say now that they should have. Get over it.

Actually, I did say they should have traded them at the time.

Thanks for coming out, though.

[BF44]

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

And if the Blues had traded away Hull, Turgeon, Demitra, Young (1st time around) and others before they walked via free agency, they would have a much better team now, due to the assets that they would have gotten in return.

You can play the if game all you'd like.

Are you honestly still trying to claim that the Blues should hvae traded away their UFA's when they were trying to win a Cup? Yea, in hindsight that would have been better for the ROSTER (not necessarily for the franchise as a whole) but considering the fact that you absolute DID NOT say that they should make those trades at that time you have no right to say now that they should have. Get over it.

Actually, I did say they should have traded them at the time.

Thanks for coming out, though.

[OS]

Actually, I did say they should have traded them at the time.

Thanks for coming out, though.

No, you did not.

Nice try, though.

[BringBackZezel]

Actually, I did say they should have traded them at the time.

Thanks for coming out, though.

No, you did not.

Nice try, though.

Yes I did.

Thanks for coming out, though.

[cprice12]

Pronger was our most valuable trade chip coming off of the lockout as well...I'd still rather have him now.

Are you really comparing Pronger to Guerin? C'mon Curt, I know you are grasping for straws here but don't stretch that far.


7 million for a 35 year old center that doesn't score is too much

I wasn't comparing Pronger to Guerin.
You said Guerin is our most valuable trade commodity and therfore he should be traded. Coming out of the lockout, Pronger was our most valuable trade commodity and we traded him. That move hasn't worked out like we had hoped and we are a worse team partly because of that move.
Just because a guy is your most valuable trade commodity, doesn't mean you should trade him.

Sometimes players get paid for things other than goals. And Weight does lead the team in assists and is a great leader.
If you are just looking at his goal total, he probably does make a bit too much money...but we aren't even close to the cap, so who cares? His extra million or so a year isn't costing us any players. He showed a lot of loyalty in wanting to come back after being traded. We got free players in the deal. I think it's fine to give him a little extra for that.

Alexander Ovechkin is Washingtons best trade commodity, I would not reccommend them trading him.

Good. Then we agree.

There is a difference between a 32 year old best defenseman in the game and a 36 year old power forward that is going to be a UFA at the end of the season.

Good players are good players.
Guerin has made this team better and is a big reason why they are playing so well.
If you want to trade a guy who will bring back a nice return, trade Brewer. We need to move a defenseman anyway...and one could argue that he is our biggest trading chip because of his age.

Sure, Weight brings some intangibles. So does Mayers. I would not want to over pay for either of them.

There is a difference between a guy who has scored 121 pts. in his career, and a guy who has 917 pts. over his career.
If I am going to overpay for one, I am going to overpay for the guy who is approaching 1000 pts. in his career.
You can't get bargains on everyone. Some players are going to be overpaid...that's the nature of professional sports.

Ok, the Blues are under the cap. Thats great. But when it comes time for free agency time, I'd rather have say 15 million to spend than 12 million to spend. 3 million could be the difference between getting a guy like Drury or Briere and a guy like Dvorak or Rucinsky. So just because they are under the cap now, does not mean that over paying for someone is "no big deal"

That is the difference between you and me. You have given up on this season and are looking towards the offseason already....which is fine. There is nothing wrong with looking to the future. I am just not a fan of ignoring what this team has done under new leadership. If they keep it up, they can get into the playoffs and they would be in a position to do some damage because they'd be one of the hottest teams in the NHL over the last 50 games.

If the Blues weren't playing extremely well or were just .500 over their last 15 games or so and weren't within reach of the playoffs, I'd be on board with getting rid of a handfull of UFA's.

I don't know what the Blues are going to do the rest of the way...no friggin' clue. But in my mind they have earned the chance to keep the majority of the team together. I know that doesn't fly with the build for the future plan, and maybe I'll be pissed in the offseason, but it would be a crime to break up this team if they are still on a roll come deadline time.

[SIU LAW]

And if the Blues had traded away Hull, Turgeon, Demitra, Young (1st time around) and others before they walked via free agency, they would have a much better team now, due to the assets that they would have gotten in return.

Just to address your past examples of letting UFAs, isn’t a bit unrealistic for a team going into the playoffs to trade off their top talent?

One example you cited was Turgeon…he was the Blues #1 center the year the Blues went to the WCF. Yes it was a walk year for him, but the Blues really were not in a position to trade him off for future talent at that point. While that may not be ideal in an academic sense, that is just not how business is usually conducted. The Blues are not the only team to do this. See the Devils with Niedermayer. See the Devils and Gomez this year. Those are just a couple of examples.

Now I am not opposed to the Blues shipping off UFAs this year, but those past instances you cited are a bit questionable and unrealistic.

[Hollywood]

But in my mind they have earned the chance to keep the majority of the team together. I know that doesn't fly with the build for the future plan, and maybe I'll be pissed in the offseason, but it would be a crime to break up this team if they are still on a roll come deadline time.

That is the difference between the two of us. If you are satisfied with short-term limited success as opposed to long term future success, so be it. Was the playoff streak a big deal for you too? I would rather they compete year after year for the Cup then try for a Cinderella dream season this year.

[BringBackZezel]

And if the Blues had traded away Hull, Turgeon, Demitra, Young (1st time around) and others before they walked via free agency, they would have a much better team now, due to the assets that they would have gotten in return.

Just to address your past examples of letting UFAs, isn’t a bit unrealistic for a team going into the playoffs to trade off their top talent?

One example you cited was Turgeon…he was the Blues #1 center the year the Blues went to the WCF. Yes it was a walk year for him, but the Blues really were not in a position to trade him off for future talent at that point. While that may not be ideal in an academic sense, that is just not how business is usually conducted. The Blues are not the only team to do this. See the Devils with Niedermayer. See the Devils and Gomez this year. Those are just a couple of examples.

Now I am not opposed to the Blues shipping off UFAs this year, but those past instances you cited are a bit questionable and unrealistic.

questionable, yes.

unrealistic, no.

I've always disagreed with the concept of letting FAs walk. If they're worth keeping, they're worth re-signing. If they're not, trade them for someone who is.

The biggest difference between the Devils and the Blues is a guy with 3 Cups, 2 Vezinas and a big #30 on his back. When you have that guy between the pipes, you have a legit chance to win the cup every year.

The Blues had Roman Turek in net in Turgeon's walk year.

That aside, I 100% guarantee you that the Devils would like to have the assets they could have gotten from trading away Niedermeyer instead of letting him walk.

Is it the way that business is usually conducted? For legit contenders, no. For playoff teams, usually no. For playoff hopefuls, sometimes yes.

Should it be the way business is conducted at all times? Yes.

Quite simply: if he's good enough to keep, he's good enough to re-sign now.

[TC]

so wait... OS is out of the closet?? boy is his wife going to be surprised....

[cprice12]

But in my mind they have earned the chance to keep the majority of the team together. I know that doesn't fly with the build for the future plan, and maybe I'll be pissed in the offseason, but it would be a crime to break up this team if they are still on a roll come deadline time.

That is the difference between the two of us. If you are satisfied with short-term limited success as opposed to long term future success, so be it.

You are assuming the Blues will only have short term and only limited success if they don't have a firesale.

Was the playoff streak a big deal for you too?

The playoffs are a big deal to me, as I am sure it is a big deal to all Blues fans. "The Streak" didn't mean much except for the fact I got to see lots of playoff hockey.

I would rather they compete year after year for the Cup then try for a Cinderella dream season this year.

So if I look into my crystal ball and say that the Blues will make the playoffs and win the cup this year...you'd rather break it up at the deadline and take your shot in future seasons?

I understand what you are saying...but I still contend that you can't break up a team that has been dominant with a new coach and new system over this many games and against the caliber of teams they've faced. You have to ride it out....especially since having a firesale doesn't guarantee years and years of being a cup contender.

[BoxCar]

But in my mind they have earned the chance to keep the majority of the team together. I know that doesn't fly with the build for the future plan, and maybe I'll be pissed in the offseason, but it would be a crime to break up this team if they are still on a roll come deadline time.

That is the difference between the two of us. If you are satisfied with short-term limited success as opposed to long term future success, so be it.

You are assuming the Blues will only have short term and only limited success if they don't have a firesale.

Was the playoff streak a big deal for you too?

The playoffs are a big deal to me, as I am sure it is a big deal to all Blues fans. "The Streak" didn't mean much except for the fact I got to see lots of playoff hockey.

I would rather they compete year after year for the Cup then try for a Cinderella dream season this year.

So if I look into my crystal ball and say that the Blues will make the playoffs and win the cup this year...you'd rather break it up at the deadline and take your shot in future seasons?

I understand what you are saying...but I still contend that you can't break up a team that has been dominant with a new coach and new system over this many games and against the caliber of teams they've faced. You have to ride it out....especially since having a firesale doesn't guarantee years and years of being a cup contender.

I have to disagree with the bolded statement. Watching the Cardinals make their Cinderella run was the most fun I have had watching sports in a long time. Does their run make them any less of contenders down the raod? Not really. What you are saying is you are willing to trade off the possibility of winning now for a better/multiple draft picks (or for players that could possibly be good and then could possibly create a better team). I am rooting for good hockey to be played. If the Blues lose and get a better pick, so be it! !t was fun to watch and the bonus is the better draft pick. If they play well and make the playoffs I will have a blast regardless of how they do because according to EVERYTHING they shouldn't be there competing against these teams. If they by chance win the cup it would be the ultimate story and does that mean they immediately sink to the bottom again next year? I think they could be even better.

That being said if a great offer comes in while they are still playoff hopefulls then pull the trigger, but hasn't the inspiring play of Brewer, Legace, Stempniak given anyone a reason to love watching this team? To examine the possibility that Legace was a good signing or that Brewer is finally reaching his potential? Screw tanking this or any season! Let the chips fall where they may and do the best with what you get.

[Misc. Blues]

I find it odd for some to say no to a cup if there is a chance...no playoffs means zero chance...so if they make the playoffs I'll take the Cinderella story over no cup every time or a cup next year...40 years is long enough...The Blues still have a lot to do...these games coming up against Detoilet are key to being buyers or sellers (no not Peter Sellers)...

[OS]

so wait... OS is out of the closet?? boy is his wife going to be surprised....

What?