Tracking the Improbable...

[BringBackZezel]

Now I realize that there are no Crosbys or Ovechkins in this years draft, but wouldn't you like to have a Thornton type player for 7 years than a Guerin for 3?

Thornton was pretty highly regarded when he was drafted. Maybe not Crosby, but pretty darned close to the Ovechkin/Kovalchuk level.

That being said, we're not talking about Thornton for 7 years vs. Guerin for 3 years.

We're talking about a player like Nash for 7 years vs. Guerin for 2 months.

Honestly, there is simply no logic that can say that Guerin for 2 months is better than Nash for 7 years.

Guerin for 2 months???? Most people on here are talking about RE-SIGNING him.

They can re-sign him after getting that 1st round pick for him.

They would only lose him for 2 months.

[BF44]

WHo's going to keep the other team off the scoreboard?

Winning 10-7 is still a win.

That being said, there's enough talent there to completely dominate time of possession and limit opponent scoring chances without having an amazing defense.

Oh -- in that case, why not just pull the goalie and throw Joe Sakic out there too....

I mean, we'll have the puck all the time......

[mdc312]

The chances of the Blues getting a Rick Nash with the pick they trade Guerin for are about the same as the chances of the Blues winning a Cup this season.

[img:268:400]http://www.mielofon.com/actor/jim_breuer/005.jpg[/img]

"So you're sayin theres a chance!!!"

[BringBackZezel]

WHo's going to keep the other team off the scoreboard?

Winning 10-7 is still a win.

That being said, there's enough talent there to completely dominate time of possession and limit opponent scoring chances without having an amazing defense.

Oh -- in that case, why not just pull the goalie and throw Joe Sakic out there too....

I mean, we'll have the puck all the time......

Why would you do that?

No one said that it would cut scoring chances down to zero.

You're being retarded to try and prove a point that has no ground to stand on.

[BF44]

WHo's going to keep the other team off the scoreboard?

Winning 10-7 is still a win.

That being said, there's enough talent there to completely dominate time of possession and limit opponent scoring chances without having an amazing defense.

Oh -- in that case, why not just pull the goalie and throw Joe Sakic out there too....

I mean, we'll have the puck all the time......

Why would you do that?

No one said that it would cut scoring chances down to zero.

You're being retarded to try and prove a point that has no ground to stand on.

I'm not going to be sucked into a petty argument. We just disagree.

[cprice12]

Yeah, that team would be better than .500.
That would be the best offensive team in the history of the league.

Precisely. Would you say that just having, lets say 3 of them on the team would be a pretty damn good team? Maybe a first line of Crosby, Ovechkin, and Thornton?

I'd like to have maybe 2 or 3 of them on the Blues in 2 or 3 years.

Now I realize that there are no Crosbys or Ovechkins in this years draft, but wouldn't you like to have a Thornton type player for 7 years than a Guerin for 3?

Having dominant players would be nice, yes.

But drafting #1 overall numerous years in a row may also get you players like: Chris Phillips('96), Bryan Berard ('95), Ed Jovanovski ('94), Alexandre Daigle ('93), Roman Hamrlik ('92)
Some of those guys are good players, sure. But not worth sucking and being last three straight years for. The best players in those drafts weren't taken first overall.

The NHL draft is way too much of a crap shoot (even to some degree with the early picks) to be placing all of your eggs in one basket by trying to rebuild your team primarily through the draft.

Now, I'm not saying I don't want to draft 1st overall. If we finish last, I'll certainly take the #1 pick. But if I were in charge, I wouldn't necessarily try to get the #1 pick a few years in a row. The franchise might not survive that type of a run, PLUS, if you are drafting guys like are listed above, you won't have a great team like you had hoped. Then what do you do?

If next year there was a can't miss guy like a Crosby or Ovechkin, I wouldn't be as upset with finishing last this year. But can't-miss players like that just don't come around very often. And sometimes elite players don't develop into elite players until they have been in the league a few years, and those guys may have been drafted late in the 1st or 2nd round.

I dunno. I'm not saying that plan won't work, because it's possible you draft three studs three years straight at #1 overall. I just feel it is too much of a gamble, and if it doesn't work out, not only does your team suck and obviously aren't competitive, but you are thin on young talent as well.

[Hollywood]

I wouldn't necessarily try to get the #1 pick a few years in a row.

I have never once condoned TRYING to get the first pick.

[BringBackZezel]

Yeah, that team would be better than .500.
That would be the best offensive team in the history of the league.

Precisely. Would you say that just having, lets say 3 of them on the team would be a pretty damn good team? Maybe a first line of Crosby, Ovechkin, and Thornton?

I'd like to have maybe 2 or 3 of them on the Blues in 2 or 3 years.

Now I realize that there are no Crosbys or Ovechkins in this years draft, but wouldn't you like to have a Thornton type player for 7 years than a Guerin for 3?

Having dominant players would be nice, yes.

But drafting #1 overall numerous years in a row may also get you players like: Chris Phillips('96), Bryan Berard ('95), Ed Jovanovski ('94), Alexandre Daigle ('93), Roman Hamrlik ('92)
Some of those guys are good players, sure. But not worth sucking and being last three straight years for. The best players in those drafts weren't taken first overall.

The NHL draft is way too much of a crap shoot (even to some degree with the early picks) to be placing all of your eggs in one basket by trying to rebuild your team primarily through the draft.

Now, I'm not saying I don't want to draft 1st overall. If we finish last, I'll certainly take the #1 pick. But if I were in charge, I wouldn't necessarily try to get the #1 pick a few years in a row. The franchise might not survive that type of a run, PLUS, if you are drafting guys like are listed above, you won't have a great team like you had hoped. Then what do you do?

If next year there was a can't miss guy like a Crosby or Ovechkin, I wouldn't be as upset with finishing last this year. But can't-miss players like that just don't come around very often. And sometimes elite players don't develop into elite players until they have been in the league a few years, and those guys may have been drafted late in the 1st or 2nd round.

I dunno. I'm not saying that plan won't work, because it's possible you draft three studs three years straight at #1 overall. I just feel it is too much of a gamble, and if it doesn't work out, not only does your team suck and obviously aren't competitive, but you are thin on young talent as well.

There's a flaw in your arguement:

The players you list were drafted a decade ago, and you fail to acknowledge that more recent #1 overalls have been much better:
Joe Thornton, Vincent Lecavalier, Patrik Stefan, Rick DiPietro, Ilya Kovalchuk, Rick Nash, Marc-Andre Fleury, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Erik Johnson.

Of those in the NHL, only the goalies and Stefan aren't all-world caliber players.

Question: Who on that list would you not take in exchange for Guerin?

I'm not saying it's an exact science. I'm simply saying that more recently there has been GREAT success with drafting #1 overall...and it's very hipocritical to stand on try and make a claim that the Blues first 30 games don't matter because they're playing so well right now, then use drafts from 1993 to make a case against high draft picks.

[OS]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

[OS]

If you fail in your run for the cup this season, you have nothing to show for it.

If you fail in landing a Rick Nash, you have a lesser player (may very well still be an all-star caliber player) for the next 7 years.

Again, there is no logic in keeping a player like Guerin when his contract is up after this season.

It's nice how you conveniently ignore the impact on the fan base and the ability to sign free agents that a "failed cup run" could have...

[BringBackZezel]

If you fail in your run for the cup this season, you have nothing to show for it.

If you fail in landing a Rick Nash, you have a lesser player (may very well still be an all-star caliber player) for the next 7 years.

Again, there is no logic in keeping a player like Guerin when his contract is up after this season.

It's nice how you conveniently ignore the impact on the fan base and the ability to sign free agents that a "failed cup run" could have...

Why do you care more about wooing free agents and happy fans then Stanley Cups?

I would rather they win the Stanley Cup. Why don't you want the Blues to win the Stanley Cup?

[TC]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

[Hollywood]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

If you guys can't follow along with this discussion, I suggest you find Aode and start a new thread. Maybe you could talk about his roller hockey team. That might be a little more your speed.

[ksbluesfan]

If the Blues make the playoffs and are mostly healthy, they will win the Cup this year.

[TC]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

If you guys can't follow along with this discussion, I suggest you find Aode and start a new thread. Maybe you could talk about his roller hockey team. That might be a little more your speed.

find me someone that can somehow get the first overall pick before the trade deadline and would trade it for BG and i'd absolutely do it.

[Hollywood]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

If you guys can't follow along with this discussion, I suggest you find Aode and start a new thread. Maybe you could talk about his roller hockey team. That might be a little more your speed.

find me someone that can somehow get the first overall pick before the trade deadline and would trade it for BG and i'd absolutely do it.

Only OS said anything about trading Guerin for the first over all pick. No one else said anything similar.

[TC]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

If you guys can't follow along with this discussion, I suggest you find Aode and start a new thread. Maybe you could talk about his roller hockey team. That might be a little more your speed.

find me someone that can somehow get the first overall pick before the trade deadline and would trade it for BG and i'd absolutely do it.

Only OS said anything about trading Guerin for the first over all pick. No one else said anything similar.

so then - again - why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to BG?

[OS]

No one else said anything similar.

O Rly?

The players you list were drafted a decade ago, and you fail to acknowledge that more recent #1 overalls have been much better:
Joe Thornton, Vincent Lecavalier, Patrik Stefan, Rick DiPietro, Ilya Kovalchuk, Rick Nash, Marc-Andre Fleury, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Erik Johnson.

Of those in the NHL, only the goalies and Stefan aren't all-world caliber players.

Question: Who on that list would you not take in exchange for Guerin?

[SIU LAW]

Why don't you want the Blues to win the Stanley Cup?

You should be a politician.

[flgtr96]

Why are we talking about a 1st overall pick in relation to Bill Guerin?

If you guys can't follow along with this discussion, I suggest you find Aode and start a new thread. Maybe you could talk about his roller hockey team. That might be a little more your speed.

find me someone that can somehow get the first overall pick before the trade deadline and would trade it for BG and i'd absolutely do it.

Only OS said anything about trading Guerin for the first over all pick. No one else said anything similar.

If one of you is responsible for getting Guerin traded...You owe me a (Franking) jersey...