Discuss the St. Louis Blues, the NHL, or whatever.
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Understand that......Darkest Day, right?OS wrote:You and I understand that.... average Joe Blow gets pissed when their favorite players get traded.Hollywood wrote:What message does it send? We know we are not going to win this year so we are going to try and do everything we can to win in the future?
1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.
Sure, but who wants to pay to go to the games and see the remnants of a team that just mailed it in? That's what it comes down to plain and simple.Hollywood wrote:Who argued that?Blue Beagle wrote:Wow, I've never seen anyone argue against the saying that winning games puts butts in the seats.
What message does it send? We know we are not going to win this year so we are going to try and do everything we can to win in the future?A firesale after the way this team has turned it around sends the wrong message to the fans, players, prospects, potential UFAs, coaches, casual fans, potential season ticket holders, fans and more fans
Realisticly, the Penguins are going to have a very hard time holding on to what they have now. The truth is you have to have the Stempniaks, McClements, Salvadors, etc.BringBackZezel wrote:1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.
2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.
A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.
Let's be realistic here.
How many tickets do you expect to sell by telling the fans that the team is hoping to return to the mediocrity that it's been stuck in for decades?Blue Beagle wrote:Sure, but who wants to pay to go to the games and see the remnants of a team that just mailed it in? That's what it comes down to plain and simple.Hollywood wrote:Who argued that?Blue Beagle wrote:Wow, I've never seen anyone argue against the saying that winning games puts butts in the seats.
What message does it send? We know we are not going to win this year so we are going to try and do everything we can to win in the future?A firesale after the way this team has turned it around sends the wrong message to the fans, players, prospects, potential UFAs, coaches, casual fans, potential season ticket holders, fans and more fans
With the start of this season and last, you're going to have to show the fans that there's a reason to buy those season tickets next year. How are you going to do that by showing more of the same from the start of the season? JD has to show that he has some credibilty and truly is beginning to turn this team around.
How are you going to do that by sacraficing the now for the future (albeit a future in another city)?
What you're saying is logical. But attendance figures really don't like, now do they?BringBackZezel wrote:How many tickets do you expect to sell by telling the fans that the team is hoping to return to the mediocrity that it's been stuck in for decades?Blue Beagle wrote:Sure, but who wants to pay to go to the games and see the remnants of a team that just mailed it in? That's what it comes down to plain and simple.Hollywood wrote:Who argued that?Blue Beagle wrote:Wow, I've never seen anyone argue against the saying that winning games puts butts in the seats.
What message does it send? We know we are not going to win this year so we are going to try and do everything we can to win in the future?A firesale after the way this team has turned it around sends the wrong message to the fans, players, prospects, potential UFAs, coaches, casual fans, potential season ticket holders, fans and more fans
With the start of this season and last, you're going to have to show the fans that there's a reason to buy those season tickets next year. How are you going to do that by showing more of the same from the start of the season? JD has to show that he has some credibilty and truly is beginning to turn this team around.
How are you going to do that by sacraficing the now for the future (albeit a future in another city)?
Do you really expect to gain credibility by letting assets walk and still not making the playoffs? Then they look just as inept as the Laurie/Sauer/Pleau Blues of the past decade.
Because the Stempniaks, McClements, and Salvadors are known for their leadership and winning ways, right?Blue Beagle wrote:Realisticly, the Penguins are going to have a very hard time holding on to what they have now. The truth is you have to have the Stempniaks, McClements, Salvadors, etc.BringBackZezel wrote:1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.
2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.
A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.
Let's be realistic here.
I'm talking about dollar value, regardless of role. There's a salary cap to work within these days.BringBackZezel wrote:Because the Stempniaks, McClements, and Salvadors are known for their leadership and winning ways, right?Blue Beagle wrote:Realisticly, the Penguins are going to have a very hard time holding on to what they have now. The truth is you have to have the Stempniaks, McClements, Salvadors, etc.BringBackZezel wrote:1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.
2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.
A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.
Let's be realistic here.
Ultimately, Stempniak and McClement are valuable because of their relatively low salary for their production. That production can be replaced on the UFA market.
Pittsburgh can't replace Crosby's production with any single player. He's the best player in the league at 19 year old and won't be a UFA for another 7 years.
You get those type of players by drafting high and drafting often.
You don't get those players by worring about the proper way to coach mid-level replaceable role players.
I'm guessing you meant lie....Blue Beagle wrote:What you're saying is logical. But attendance figures really don't like, now do they?
Obsession.OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...
If that's the case, you have even less of a point. The younger they get (through the draft and trades) the better off they are in terms of the salary cap.Blue Beagle wrote:I'm talking about dollar value, regardless of role. There's a salary cap to work within these days.BringBackZezel wrote:Because the Stempniaks, McClements, and Salvadors are known for their leadership and winning ways, right?Blue Beagle wrote:Realisticly, the Penguins are going to have a very hard time holding on to what they have now. The truth is you have to have the Stempniaks, McClements, Salvadors, etc.BringBackZezel wrote:1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.
2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.
A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.
Let's be realistic here.
Ultimately, Stempniak and McClement are valuable because of their relatively low salary for their production. That production can be replaced on the UFA market.
Pittsburgh can't replace Crosby's production with any single player. He's the best player in the league at 19 year old and won't be a UFA for another 7 years.
You get those type of players by drafting high and drafting often.
You don't get those players by worring about the proper way to coach mid-level replaceable role players.
Agreed. I think they should trade away most of those guys unless a deal can be worked out prior to the deadline. The Blues are not in a position to risk losing another UFA.BringBackZezel wrote: 1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....
Cool...I made the EVAAAR list.BringBackZezel wrote: 2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.
I am. You can can't expect this team to purposely lose. Winning is a state of mind and it should start now.BringBackZezel wrote: A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.
Let's be realistic here.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. It's inevitable that they will have to trade away their vets and make the franchise better.execwrite wrote:If there was no talent in the system I think you'd have a stronger argument for tanking this season and getting picks. The Blues have young players on the way, although of course they always need more.
Since the trade deadline is so early, it seems inevitable that they will have to hang on to their vets and risk them walking for nothing next year.
That's life - the idea is to win. As someone else pointed out, if they want to spend money on free agents next year, it doesn't have to be their own free agents. There will be others available.
So about 1200 a game is your target? Might want to raise ticket prices to make that work. Keep trying.BringBackZezel wrote:I'm guessing you meant lie....Blue Beagle wrote:What you're saying is logical. But attendance figures really don't like, now do they?
Here is the average att. by month for the blues:
October: 11288
November: 9705
December: 12941
January: 11459
Attendance figures don't lie:
Despite the Blues recent stretch of being the best team in the league over a 10 game span, attendance is not up, and is in fact down since December.
No one is saying that they should purposely lose. They shouldn't.northwest dave wrote: I am. You can can't expect this team to purposely lose. Winning is a state of mind and it should start now.
Ottawa's best players drafted while they were the worst team in the league did not happen with their top 5 picks. Deroit consistently drafts well. Drafting in the top 5 is not the only way to build a winning team. Playing good hockey with good players is. Installing that winning atmospere is what needs to happen...not hoping for the next Joe Murphy or Daigle to appear.
I'm talking about them keeping these players as they mature. Oh wait, you have them winning the cup this year right?BringBackZezel wrote:If that's the case, you have even less of a point. The younger they get (through the draft and trades) the better off they are in terms of the salary cap.Blue Beagle wrote:I'm talking about dollar value, regardless of role. There's a salary cap to work within these days.BringBackZezel wrote:Because the Stempniaks, McClements, and Salvadors are known for their leadership and winning ways, right?Blue Beagle wrote:Realisticly, the Penguins are going to have a very hard time holding on to what they have now. The truth is you have to have the Stempniaks, McClements, Salvadors, etc.BringBackZezel wrote:1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.
2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.
A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.
Let's be realistic here.
Ultimately, Stempniak and McClement are valuable because of their relatively low salary for their production. That production can be replaced on the UFA market.
Pittsburgh can't replace Crosby's production with any single player. He's the best player in the league at 19 year old and won't be a UFA for another 7 years.
You get those type of players by drafting high and drafting often.
You don't get those players by worring about the proper way to coach mid-level replaceable role players.
Why would you want target 1200 a game? Do you really want the Blues to fail that bad?Blue Beagle wrote:So about 1200 a game is your target? Might want to raise ticket prices to make that work. Keep trying.BringBackZezel wrote:I'm guessing you meant lie....Blue Beagle wrote:What you're saying is logical. But attendance figures really don't like, now do they?
Here is the average att. by month for the blues:
October: 11288
November: 9705
December: 12941
January: 11459
Attendance figures don't lie:
Despite the Blues recent stretch of being the best team in the league over a 10 game span, attendance is not up, and is in fact down since December.
And suck harder for the 2nd straight season helps that how?BringBackZezel wrote:Why would you want target 1200 a game? Do you really want the Blues to fail that bad?Blue Beagle wrote:So about 1200 a game is your target? Might want to raise ticket prices to make that work. Keep trying.BringBackZezel wrote:I'm guessing you meant lie....Blue Beagle wrote:What you're saying is logical. But attendance figures really don't like, now do they?
Here is the average att. by month for the blues:
October: 11288
November: 9705
December: 12941
January: 11459
Attendance figures don't lie:
Despite the Blues recent stretch of being the best team in the league over a 10 game span, attendance is not up, and is in fact down since December.