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Postby OS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:18 pm

BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...


Obsession.


Why are you so obessed with this idea for sucking to get the next Sidney Crosby but can't tell us how long they should try this strategy? You are teh smart one, please educate us!!!!@!!221!!
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:18 pm

Blue Beagle wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
Blue Beagle wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
Blue Beagle wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
northwest dave wrote:I think that winning games and learning how to beat good team will help this team in the future regardless if they make the playoffs. Guys like Stempy, McClement, Jackman, etc. are learning how to "Murray Hockey" and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring.


1. McClement, Jackman, "Stempy", and "Bass" will all still learn "Murray Hockey" completely independent of making the playoffs and trading away Tkachuk, Guerin, Brewer, Cajanek, Drake, etc....

2. "...and that to me means next year and the years after will be better than any top 5 pick could bring" is one of the most short-sighted posts ever posted here.

A top 5 pick can bring you Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Modano, Pronger, Lemieux or Jagr. The list goes on an on....and what's amazing is that aquiring any of those players are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than the difference between Stempy, McClement, Jackman 5 weeks ago and now.

Let's be realistic here.


Realisticly, the Penguins are going to have a very hard time holding on to what they have now. The truth is you have to have the Stempniaks, McClements, Salvadors, etc.


Because the Stempniaks, McClements, and Salvadors are known for their leadership and winning ways, right?

Ultimately, Stempniak and McClement are valuable because of their relatively low salary for their production. That production can be replaced on the UFA market.

Pittsburgh can't replace Crosby's production with any single player. He's the best player in the league at 19 year old and won't be a UFA for another 7 years.

You get those type of players by drafting high and drafting often.

You don't get those players by worring about the proper way to coach mid-level replaceable role players.

I'm talking about dollar value, regardless of role. There's a salary cap to work within these days.


If that's the case, you have even less of a point. The younger they get (through the draft and trades) the better off they are in terms of the salary cap.

I'm talking about them keeping these players as they mature. Oh wait, you have them winning the cup this year right?


What are you talking about? :lol: :lol: :lol:
[Aode] 10:34 pm: well, if I find cornhole anywhere, I'll try it and let you know
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:18 pm

OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...


Obsession.


Why are you so obessed with this idea for sucking to get the next Sidney Crosby but can't tell us how long they should try this strategy? You are teh smart one, please educate us!!!!@!!221!!


Obsession.
[Aode] 10:34 pm: well, if I find cornhole anywhere, I'll try it and let you know
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Postby OS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:19 pm

BringBackZezel wrote:
Blue Beagle wrote:What you're saying is logical. But attendance figures really don't like, now do they?


I'm guessing you meant lie....

Here is the average att. by month for the blues:

October: 11288
November: 9705
December: 12941
January: 11459

Attendance figures don't lie:

Despite the Blues recent stretch of being the best team in the league over a 10 game span, attendance is not up, and is in fact down since December.


I guess you're ignoring the fact that December had Brett Hull's game averaged into and that January has yet to have a weekend game?

We'll look at these numbers again on Sunday.
Last edited by OS on Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby OS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:20 pm

BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...


Obsession.


Why are you so obessed with this idea for sucking to get the next Sidney Crosby but can't tell us how long they should try this strategy? You are teh smart one, please educate us!!!!@!!221!!


Obsession.


Do you think by saying that word over and over it will prevent everyone from seeing that you're avoiding an easy question? Cause, it's not working. It just makes you look sad. Which is fine by me. :lol:
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:23 pm

OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...


Obsession.


Why are you so obessed with this idea for sucking to get the next Sidney Crosby but can't tell us how long they should try this strategy? You are teh smart one, please educate us!!!!@!!221!!


Obsession.


Do you think by saying that word over and over it will prevent everyone from seeing that you're avoiding an easy question? Cause, it's not working. It just makes you look sad. Which is fine by me. :lol:


I don't see how this adds to the conversation, and as such it should be deleted from this thread.

Thank you for your valuable contribution, though.
[Aode] 10:34 pm: well, if I find cornhole anywhere, I'll try it and let you know
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Postby OS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:27 pm

BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...


Obsession.


Why are you so obessed with this idea for sucking to get the next Sidney Crosby but can't tell us how long they should try this strategy? You are teh smart one, please educate us!!!!@!!221!!


Obsession.


Do you think by saying that word over and over it will prevent everyone from seeing that you're avoiding an easy question? Cause, it's not working. It just makes you look sad. Which is fine by me. :lol:


I don't see how this adds to the conversation, and as such it should be deleted from this thread.

Thank you for your valuable contribution, though.


How is asking you how many years the Blues have to lose before it's okay to try to win the Cup unrelated to this thread? It's a simple question and if it were asked by one of your buddies (most of which ran away when their attempt to get me banned failed miserably) you would answer it. But, because I ask it you turn it into an attack. And I'm the one obsessed? Is your life really that pathetic that you have built up such a grudge with a guy on the internet that you can't answer a simple question?
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:30 pm

OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:I'm still waiting for you to tell us how many years the Blues have to suck before it's okay to try and win a Cup...


Obsession.


Why are you so obessed with this idea for sucking to get the next Sidney Crosby but can't tell us how long they should try this strategy? You are teh smart one, please educate us!!!!@!!221!!


Obsession.


Do you think by saying that word over and over it will prevent everyone from seeing that you're avoiding an easy question? Cause, it's not working. It just makes you look sad. Which is fine by me. :lol:


I don't see how this adds to the conversation, and as such it should be deleted from this thread.

Thank you for your valuable contribution, though.


How is asking you how many years the Blues have to lose before it's okay to try to win the Cup unrelated to this thread? It's a simple question and if it were asked by one of your buddies (most of which ran away when their attempt to get me banned failed miserably) you would answer it. But, because I ask it you turn it into an attack. And I'm the one obsessed? Is your life really that pathetic that you have built up such a grudge with a guy on the internet that you can't answer a simple question?


please refrain from personal attacks.
[Aode] 10:34 pm: well, if I find cornhole anywhere, I'll try it and let you know
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Postby OS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:33 pm

Since BBZ refuses (or is incapable) of answering a simple question....

Those of you who think the Blues should continue to go for #1 picks, how many more seasons should they suck before they should start trying to win the Cup?

(Hmm, I just realized that BBZ might be the only one who is obsessed with this idea, so I might not get any answers. Damn.)
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:35 pm

OS wrote:Since BBZ refuses (or is incapable) of answering a simple question....

Those of you who think the Blues should continue to go for #1 picks, how many more seasons should they suck before they should start trying to win the Cup?

(Hmm, I just realized that BBZ might be the only one who is obsessed with this idea, so I might not get any answers. Damn.)


please refrain from personal attacks.
[Aode] 10:34 pm: well, if I find cornhole anywhere, I'll try it and let you know
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Postby OS » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:36 pm

BringBackZezel wrote:
OS wrote:Since BBZ refuses (or is incapable) of answering a simple question....

Those of you who think the Blues should continue to go for #1 picks, how many more seasons should they suck before they should start trying to win the Cup?

(Hmm, I just realized that BBZ might be the only one who is obsessed with this idea, so I might not get any answers. Damn.)


please refrain from personal attacks.


Fortunatley for me the great moderators here at LGB are smart enough to realize that I didn't attack anyone. But, I'm sure they would appreciate if you stay on topic and quit spamming the threads. K, thanks.
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Postby Guppy » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:55 pm

Jeeze fellas. If the answer does not suit you then leave it at that. Respect what one has to say and move on. No need to keep digging for more than what is said. Leave it at what is said and go from there.

Carry on.....
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Postby cprice12 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:34 pm

Guppy wrote:Jeeze fellas. If the answer does not suit you then leave it at that. Respect what one has to say and move on. No need to keep digging for more than what is said. Leave it at what is said and go from there.

Carry on.....


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Postby ledzeppelinfan1 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:42 pm

BBZ...you're acting like a child...and ruining what was a really good thread.

Thanks for the non-contribution...both in your views on the team and your childish inane attitude.
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Postby deadphish » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:19 am

ledzeppelinfan1 wrote:BBZ...you're acting like a child...and ruining what was a really good thread.

Thanks for the non-contribution...both in your views on the team and your childish inane attitude.

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Postby cprice12 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:27 am

BringBackZezel wrote:
Let's say they don't plan on making the playoffs
-They trade away Guerin, Tkachuk, Brewer, and a couple others at the deadline. They save probably around $3M.

They won't trade all of those players. Not gonna happen.
If they are sellers, they may move a couple guys...but no way to they trade five guys.

-They get a better draft pick, which increases the likelihood that they'll get an NHL regular who will have restricted pay for 5-8 seasons. (Sidney Crosby is the ultimate example. He's making $850K per season. How much would it cost to get like production out of another player? $5M? $7M? That's real savings....)

Sidney Crosby-like players do not come around every year...not even close. I wouldn't bank on a player like that being drafted for quite a while.

It is quite possible, that if the Blues do what you are suggesting for a few years, that they could improve greatly.

It is also quite possible that if the Blues don't try and improve much over the next few years, if they suck and have a top 5 or 10 pick each of those years, that a good number of those guys may never pan out. (Gasp! in the NHL draft you say! Shut your mouth!) The NHL draft is usually a crap shoot after the first few picks...and quite often players drafted later in the first round turn out to be just as good as some of the other high picks.

I just don't trust the NHL draft. And to put all of my eggs in that basket and wanting this team to suck for a few years to gather those eggs, may not pan out...and then what do you have? You might have a team with little future, and still sucks.

-They'll pick up additional draft picks/prospects from the deals, and all of those players will have restricted pay for 5-8 seasons.

The additional draft picks and prospects would be nice...I'll give you that. That is more appealing than wanting to finish near the bottom of the league, just to get a high draft pick and select a guy who may never play in the NHL.
But no way do I get rid of all of the veterans at the deadline in an attempt to do this. Maybe move two or three tops if you get the right deals.

-They'll be closer to building a team who can actually compete in the playoffs, meaning they could host as many as 16 playoff games per season, as opposed to the 3 they can hope for at most this season.

For that to happen...the draft picks would have to pan out and actually become good/great NHL players.

When you account for everything, there's much more money to be made (saved) by not making the playoffs.

Only if all of the chips fall in the right places.

That plan may work...but it could flop as well because of the wild uncertainty that is the NHL draft.

If you were to look into your crystal ball and tell me that the Blues over the next three years would get a #1 pick, a #2 pick, and a#3 pick...I'd be in favor of attempting to get those picks because the odds of those picks being good players are decent. But if you told me they would be drafting #7, #8 & #9...I'd say forget it. You are sacrificing multiple seasons for a much lesser chance at good players. I'd take my chances later in the 1st round. You may get just as good a player, or maybe better...you never know.
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Postby Tezmyster » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:36 am

OS wrote:Those of you who think the Blues should continue to go for #1 picks, how many more seasons should they suck before they should start trying to win the Cup?

Look at the Pens now, last 4 seasons they've had 2 #1 draft picks and 2 #2, currently sitting 13th in the Eastern with a 3-5-2 performance in their last 10. They are a prime example of how draft picks don't guarantee success, and the sad truth for them is that most likely before they start having any major success they'll have probably have lost one or more of those draft pick players.
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Postby FloPoErich » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:51 pm

Guppy wrote:Jeeze fellas. If the answer does not suit you then leave it at that. Respect what one has to say and move on. No need to keep digging for more than what is said. Leave it at what is said and go from there.

Carry on.....

:plusplus:
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Postby Hollywood » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:59 pm

OS wrote:Since BBZ refuses (or is incapable) of answering a simple question....

Those of you who think the Blues should continue to go for #1 picks, how many more seasons should they suck before they should start trying to win the Cup?

(Hmm, I just realized that BBZ might be the only one who is obsessed with this idea, so I might not get any answers. Damn.)


If it was as cut and dry as you are making it out to be, everyone would have a cup by now. There is no concrete answer to that. Things we do know.......

1- The Blues will not make the playoffs this year.
2- The Blues do not have enough talent to win the cup right now.

If we take these two things as fact (which they are) then you must also assume that....

1- Keeping the same team they have now will not enable them to win the cup in the future.
2- If you want to improve your team, you get assets to help do so

Now, you have 2 ways to get those assetts.....

1- The draft
2- Trading away assets that are not going to enable you to win, but may help others.

With the draft, obviously the best players go early. If you have 2 choices, Miss the playoffs and pick 3rd or miss the playoffs and pick 15th...which do you choose?

With trading players....you can let a player like Billy Guerin
-walk for nothing
-resign and continue to lose
-trade and get value to win in the future

The Blues do not have enough talent right now for a player like Bill Guerin, Kieth Tkachuk, Doug Weight, or Martin Rucinsky to help them. The best thing for the Blues is to trade those players and get assetts for them that will enable them to acquire enough talent to win in the future.

With a good draft this year and a good off season this year, maybe next year you become buyers. Maybe that is "long enough to suck" before trying to win. Maybe not. We won't know until it happens. If not, then you do it all again and it takes another year.

What we do know is this is not the year.

[/u]
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Postby Hollywood » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:01 pm

ledzeppelinfan1 wrote:BBZ...you're acting like a child...and ruining what was a really good thread.

Thanks for the non-contribution...both in your views on the team and your childish inane attitude.



Hey David Duke, BBZ has contributed more to the board in this lone thread than you have in the entire board over the last few years.
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