GDT#48: 1/23/12 > Blues @ Red Wings > 6:30 PM > NBCSN/KMOX

[cprice12]

Saw this posted on a Wings forum...

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Howard has a history of attacking players.

Sure is a brave boy behind his mask that protects his entire face/head and padding on every square inch of his body...and choose to attack players like Crosby, Perron, etc.

Tough guy he is.

[WaukeeBlues]

In regards to the Stewart v. Stuart...

If Stewart basically forced Stuart into a fight that the latter didn't want to be a part of: yes, instigator, absolutely. Anything approaching what happened a la Patrick Roy's kid is definitely an instigator.

True: Stewart skated across ice for no other purpose than to try and get Stuart to drop the gloves. But Stewart did not:
1) Drop the gloves first
2) Not only drop them first but start throwing punches when Stuart either wasn't expecting them or not wanting to fight. You see some guys start throwing punches before the other guy even starts throwing his gloves off and then HAS TO for the sheer fact he has to defend himself. Not what happened here.

There has to be some logical breakdown here. While the NHL may not necessarily want a guy skating across ice to try and start a fight, when the OTHER guy is the first one to drop the gloves and AGREES to go... then f*ck it, they go. For that reason I disagree with the call.

How many times do we see a guy from the other team skate over, get a little rough, they jaw a bit, but no fight happens? All the time. The Blues can make the good faith argument that if Stuart hadn't dropped them first: no fight occurs. For that reason alone, no instigator should have been issued.

[cprice12]

In regards to the Stewart v. Stuart...

If Stewart basically forced Stuart into a fight that the latter didn't want to be a part of: yes, instigator, absolutely. Anything approaching what happened a la Patrick Roy's kid is definitely an instigator.

True: Stewart skated across ice for no other purpose than to try and get Stuart to drop the gloves. But Stewart did not:
1) Drop the gloves first
2) Not only drop them first but start throwing punches when Stuart either wasn't expecting them or not wanting to fight. You see some guys start throwing punches before the other guy even starts throwing his gloves off and then HAS TO for the sheer fact he has to defend himself. Not what happened here.

There has to be some logical breakdown here. While the NHL may not necessarily want a guy skating across ice to try and start a fight, when the OTHER guy is the first one to drop the gloves and AGREES to go... then f*ck it, they go. For that reason I disagree with the call.

How many times do we see a guy from the other team skate over, get a little rough, they jaw a bit, but no fight happens? All the time. The Blues can make the good faith argument that if Stuart hadn't dropped them first: no fight occurs. For that reason alone, no instigator should have been issued.

I think you are preaching to the choir. However...Wings fans will disagree with you...obviously, and not surprisingly.

[cprice12]

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[cprice12]

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[cprice12]

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[theohall]

Next game the Blues need to pound on Lidstrom, even if it mean taking penalties, the way the Wings pounded on Pietrangelo. It's not like the refs are going to call all the penalties anyway, considering they called none when Pietrangelo was clearly interfered with twice and took a shot to the head the way Abdelkator took a shot to the head, but the Wings player won't wind up with the 3-game suspension Cole received.

The league is trying to prevent teams from "protecting their own." Well, if the refs aren't going to protect players when an opponent flat out breaks the rules to hit someone, the team who is getting hit is going to protect their own. Want to know why the NHL has trouble keeping new fans - this game was a fine example. Blatant rules violations directly led to 2 goals against and those non-calls were the difference on the scoreboard.

And if Stewie got 17, why didn't Staubitz get the same thing when the Blues played the Wild? 10-1 Stewart winds up suspended, again, after playing the Wings.

[gaijin]

God, I hate Detroit.

From the AP game recap: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/recap;_ylt= ... 2012012305

“We have such a calm team,” said Jimmy Howard, who made 21 saves for his league-leading 30th win. “Nothing seems to rattle us.”

“It appeared to me that they thought they could be physical with us,” Detroit coach Mike Babcock said.

[cprice12]

God, I hate Detroit.

From the AP game recap: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/recap;_ylt= ... 2012012305

“We have such a calm team,” said Jimmy Howard, who made 21 saves for his league-leading 30th win. “Nothing seems to rattle us.”

“It appeared to me that they thought they could be physical with us,” Detroit coach Mike Babcock said.

More ass talk from Franzen:

"We have to thank the guy who went after Stuie," Franzen said. "It was a good, clean hit, and he decided he wanted to take an instigator. So, thank him, and score a goal."

[northwest dave]

God, I hate Detroit.

From the AP game recap: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/recap;_ylt= ... 2012012305

“We have such a calm team,” said Jimmy Howard, who made 21 saves for his league-leading 30th win. “Nothing seems to rattle us.”

“It appeared to me that they thought they could be physical with us,” Detroit coach Mike Babcock said.

More ass talk from Franzen:

"We have to thank the guy who went after Stuie," Franzen said. "It was a good, clean hit, and he decided he wanted to take an instigator. So, thank him, and score a goal."

That last quote personifies the problem here. It is apparent the NHL wants to eliminate fighting from the game. What Stewart did was the classic "protecting his teammate." Because he got the instigator and the Redwings scored, it gave the Redwings the green light to take borderline runs at Petro.

To further the frustration...The Redwings do not fight. They had what...5 fighting majors last year? For a town that glorifies "Mr. Hockey", how embarrassing. But now the game is how far you can punish the other team with borderline hits and slashes (a Detroit specialty), without having to 'answer the bell'. I'm not sure what happened first....the NHL changed the game and Detroit adopted or Detroit changed the NHL game. Now we know why Scott Mellanby and team jumped the wingers a few years ago. They don't fight, but instigate the need.

Either way, the Blues were playing well before that Stewart penalty extra penalty. The game is changing to cater the wingers style of play.

[goon attack]

Who gives a shit? This obessession with Detroit has simply got to stop. They are kicking total ass at home and won a game in January. Big franking deal. Stewart beating that fucker's ass was worth losing the game.

we are 2-3 against them this year. hardly a failure.

I am pissed that we didn't kick more ass at the end of the game though.

Oh well, next time.

[kodos]

Did you know...

Skating up to someone, challenging them to a fight and then having them fight you is worth 17 minutes of penalties and an instigator.

But, if you are goalie, lose your shit, start wildly punching anyone within your reach without removing your mask*... well, that is what we call "roughing"

Not instigating, but roughing.

(*should be an automatic misconduct for initiating a fight with a face shield.)

[kodos]

46.11 Instigator - An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria: distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.
A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting and a ten-minute misconduct.
If the same player or goalkeeper is deemed to be the instigator of a second altercation in the same game, he shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.
When a player receives his third instigator penalty in one Regular season, he is automatically given a game misconduct following that third violation.
A player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game misconduct penalty (aggressor).

Okay, according to the rules, the Stewart play is textbook instigation. That's fine. I get that. The problem is that every single fight starts this way and you only see 2-3 instigator penalties called all year. It's wildly inconsistent. If you call it according to the letter of the law, there should be an instigator called on every single fight, and instead, you only see it about one time out of twenty. Was this incident, in this game, worthy of being that one in twenty? No.


Okay, fine, you want to call it by the book... how many of these rules did Howard violate when he blew his precious little lid...

46.2 Aggressor – The aggressor in an altercation shall be the player who continues to throw punches in an attempt to inflict punishment on his opponent who is in a defenseless position or who is an unwilling combatant.
A player must be deemed the aggressor when he has clearly won the fight but he continues throwing and landing punches in a further attempt to inflict punishment and/or injury on his opponent who is no longer in a position to defend himself.
A player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation shall be assessed a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.
A player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation will have this recorded as an aggressor of an altercation for statistical and suspension purposes.
A player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game misconduct penalty (aggressor).

VIOLATION!

46.5 Continuing or Attempting to Continue a Fight - Any player who persists in continuing or attempting to continue a fight or altercation after he has been ordered by the Referee to stop, or who resists a Linesman in the discharge of his duties shall, at the discretion of the Referee, incur a misconduct or game misconduct penalty in addition to any penalties imposed.

VIOLATION!

46.6 Face Protection - If a player penalized as an instigator of an altercation is wearing a face shield (including a goalkeeper), he shall be assessed an additional unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
Should the player (including a goalkeeper) who instigates the fight be wearing a face shield, but removes it before instigating the altercation, the additional unsportsmanlike conduct penalty shall not apply.

VIOLATION!

[kodos]

They need to run Howard in the next game. Just straight up plow his ass over. Take the penalties. Take the suspension. It's worth it.

We're going to lose the game anyway. They know it, we know, the refs know it, so who cares.

If they want to see what actual penalties look like, we can show them.

[northwest dave]

They need to run Howard in the next game. Just straight up plow his ass over. Take the penalties. Take the suspension. It's worth it.

We're going to lose the game anyway. They know it, we know, the refs know it, so who cares.

If they want to see what actual penalties look like, we can show them.

We need to do a little Tkachuk to Hasek action.

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I will always give Tkachuk props for doing what everyone Blues' fan wanted to do.

[kodos]

Except that Tkachuk completely missed him on that play.

[northwest dave]

Except that Tkachuk completely missed him on that play.

He got him enough, plus he scared the sh*t out of him while trying to play the puck.

[ComradeT]

They had two chances to take out Howard. First, Backes decides to be a gentleman and run into the goal instead of Howard, then I forget who gently bumps him from behind when they could really drop him since he was playing the puck behind the goal. Next time, they should just bury him. There's no sense in playing clean against Detroit. If you're gonna get shit calls, might as well justify them by actually doing something worth a penalty.

[gaijin]

They had two chances to take out Howard. First, Backes decides to be a gentleman and run into the goal instead of Howard, then I forget who gently bumps him from behind when they could really drop him since he was playing the puck behind the goal. Next time, they should just bury him. There's no sense in playing clean against Detroit. If you're gonna get shit calls, might as well justify them by actually doing something worth a penalty.

Winnar.

[ZigZagBluesFan]

Stewie probably deserved the penalties he got but damn it was worth it to see a Wing get absolutely pummeled like that.

A comment on HockeyFights says it all:

that reminded me of Sonny Corleone beating the crap out of his brother in law for beating his sister. The only thing he didn't hit him with was the bench or a trash can lid. No, that was NOT a clean hit..with elbows up...he should have drawn a penalty for that crap. Well, he did actually...a bumps and bruises penalty...worst ass whipping of the year. I am surprised he did'nt take the other guy's skate off and beat him over the head with it. Major domination of a biblical proportions.

That about sums it up. (Frank) the Wings.

That said, Coliacovo is an idiot.