Ok, let me make this clearer. I'm not asking about "any guy". I'm asking about Patrick Kane. Do you think the contract he signed in '09 was an overpay? Was that, specifically, a risky contract in your opinion?Kerfuffle wrote:Yes I believe any guy coming out of his entry level contract and signing for big money is a risk.
Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Armstrong said it was never mentioned explicitly but was clearly an elephant in the room. He's the generational Russian talent and it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that teams would basically give him a blank check.cprice12 wrote:Nope. Armstrong said that neither Tarasenko nor his agent ever played the KHL card...even though it is reported that the KHL offered Tank $33 million for 3 years.Kerfuffle wrote:My thoughts:
3) The KHL was never an option although I'm sure they played that card. The crash of the ruble has the KHL is financial turmoil and explains why all the high dollar guys want to come over to the NHL as their contracts are worth much less in the KHL (think Kovalchuk).
Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Yes I did think it was an overpay back in late 2009 to give that extension and yes it was very risky. But 6 years and 3 cups later I'd say it turned out okay.ecbm wrote:Ok, let me make this clearer. I'm not asking about "any guy". I'm asking about Patrick Kane. Do you think the contract he signed in '09 was an overpay? Was that, specifically, a risky contract in your opinion?Kerfuffle wrote:Yes I believe any guy coming out of his entry level contract and signing for big money is a risk.
Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
That's perfectly fair & consistent then. I guess we can look past that because he's one of few obvious bright spots for the Blues right now. We can revisit it in 2021...Kerfuffle wrote:Yes I did think it was an overpay back in late 2009 to give that extension and yes it was very risky. But 6 years and 3 cups later I'd say it turned out okay.ecbm wrote:Ok, let me make this clearer. I'm not asking about "any guy". I'm asking about Patrick Kane. Do you think the contract he signed in '09 was an overpay? Was that, specifically, a risky contract in your opinion?Kerfuffle wrote:Yes I believe any guy coming out of his entry level contract and signing for big money is a risk.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Tank is by and far the best player on the team outside of Pie and even then. In my mind this would be equivalent of Towes. In this universe there is no question, you pay a man like that top dollar because that's what he is worth, from his abilities on the ice as a player and leader and barring anything else, will be the teams future captain.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Tankecbm wrote:That's perfectly fair & consistent then. I guess we can look past that because he's one of few obvious bright spots for the Blues right now. We can revisit it in 2021...Kerfuffle wrote:Yes I did think it was an overpay back in late 2009 to give that extension and yes it was very risky. But 6 years and 3 cups later I'd say it turned out okay.ecbm wrote:Ok, let me make this clearer. I'm not asking about "any guy". I'm asking about Patrick Kane. Do you think the contract he signed in '09 was an overpay? Was that, specifically, a risky contract in your opinion?Kerfuffle wrote:Yes I believe any guy coming out of his entry level contract and signing for big money is a risk.
Shatty
Pie
Schwartz
Lehtera
Allen
...to name some.
I think you are selling this team's "bright spots" a bit short.
There are a number of them that fans can be excited about.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
I agree with you guys on most of this stuff with Tank. The only part we disagree on is whether you pay someone that kind of money based on a small sample size of NHL experience. I'm not saying I wouldn't do the deal - I would have signed him as well. I just feel more risk here than most - especially for a Russian player coming off a contract year. But I'm more leery of all big signings, even my own players.Oaklandblue wrote:Tank is by and far the best player on the team outside of Pie and even then. In my mind this would be equivalent of Towes. In this universe there is no question, you pay a man like that top dollar because that's what he is worth, from his abilities on the ice as a player and leader and barring anything else, will be the teams future captain.
Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
I've said that before with players that have a relatively small sample size to look at as far as performance goes...so I agree to some degree.Kerfuffle wrote:I agree with you guys on most of this stuff with Tank. The only part we disagree on is whether you pay someone that kind of money based on a small sample size of NHL experience. I'm not saying I wouldn't do the deal - I would have signed him as well. I just feel more risk here than most - especially for a Russian player coming off a contract year. But I'm more leery of all big signings, even my own players.Oaklandblue wrote:Tank is by and far the best player on the team outside of Pie and even then. In my mind this would be equivalent of Towes. In this universe there is no question, you pay a man like that top dollar because that's what he is worth, from his abilities on the ice as a player and leader and barring anything else, will be the teams future captain.
But that kind of analysis on a player really has to be on a case by case basis.
And Tarasenko is quite the exception. This organization has had some outstanding players play here and I think Tank is already the most dynamic of the bunch. More dynamic than Hull, Pronger, MacInnis, Shanahan, Turgeon, etc.
Players like this do not come along often...and if you can lock him up for 8 years early in his career (which will include all of his prime years) at what looks to be a bargain of a salary, you do it. And if you don't have the cap room, you make room.
Watching Tarasenko play every game since he has come up...you just know he is the real deal. You can see it. He has the drive, the energy, the talent and the balls. He has scored some of the most impressive goals I have ever seen a Blues player score, and he's only 23. He creates stuff all on his own...he doesn't need someone to create things for him...he doesn't rely on that. The fact that he can do it himself and often will is a very good indicator that he is the real deal and isn't a flukey byproduct of the system or his particular linemates.
A bridge contract would almost certainly have cost the Blues a LOT more money in the long run which in turn would have cost us other players to make room for Tank's salary...so while yes, this is a gamble, it's a very smart gamble on a player that easily seems to be the read deal.
If this were one of those 12 or 15 year contracts...then I wouldn't be as high on it because of how it may play out at the end. And while 8 years is a long contract, especially for the Blues, I think with Tank's age, it is a pretty damn good length. And when the top players in the game are already making over $10 million per right now (who knows what the top players will be making in 5 or 6 years), a $7.5 yearly cap hit for Tank throughout the contract looks like a pretty damn good deal right now.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised at Tank's comments after he signed the contract. He's saying the right things, but it's the way he is saying them. He is thanking the Blues for "trusting" him...which was just nice to hear. And the first thing he said to Army during negotiations wasn't about dollar figures, it was: "What are we going to do to win the cup?". And Tank has made it very clear that first and foremost he wants to win a cup here, that's all that is on his mind...which everyone says everywhere they go and you expect that kind of company line. But there is something about Tank's comments that seem very genuine for some reason...so that's really cool to hear.
The fact that he turned down a reported 3 year $33 million deal from the KHL is pretty significant. Yes, the total amount of the contract is almost double what the total amount of the KHL deal was, and he has the long term security here...but he comes off as very loyal, and he has said he wants to play with and against the best. He had made comments like that when he first came over from Russia. He said it was his dream to play in the NHL and that's what he wanted to do.
I couldn't be happier about the contract structure for Tank. Well, I guess I would be happier if it was a $6 million cap hit, but you get what I mean. I'm pleased with the deal and it shouldn't handicap this franchise in any way in the future...unless of course he regresses, but like I said...that just doesn't seem likely based on what I've seen from him.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
8 years is the limit on NHL contract lengths now. It was part of the latest CBA after the nonsense the Wild pulled just prior to the lockout.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Any contract you sign to a guy anywhere at any time is a gamble based on the team's hope of future performance. This is blended with the individual's desire for monetary security and attaining top dollar. It's really that simple.
The market and other salaries come into play but it ultimately boils down to what you believe a certain player can achieve based on what you've seen so far. There's always an element of risk.
Erik "golf cart" Johnson
Joe "snowblower" Sakic
Rory "soccer ball" McIlroy...
The list goes on and on. There's ALWAYS a chance you get screwed. But the Blues (and I believe most fans) have seen that Tank is going to be a legitimate star in this league, his talent is off the charts, and for the term and price, I love this contract. All things considered.
The market and other salaries come into play but it ultimately boils down to what you believe a certain player can achieve based on what you've seen so far. There's always an element of risk.
Erik "golf cart" Johnson
Joe "snowblower" Sakic
Rory "soccer ball" McIlroy...
The list goes on and on. There's ALWAYS a chance you get screwed. But the Blues (and I believe most fans) have seen that Tank is going to be a legitimate star in this league, his talent is off the charts, and for the term and price, I love this contract. All things considered.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
No, no-I don't mean it that way. This team is still very talented. I just meant the signing of Tarasenko is pretty much the only positive thing that has happened at this club since the end of the regular season. Easily the most positive.cprice12 wrote:I think you are selling this team's "bright spots" a bit short.
Malkin? Ovechkin? Once they're here, there's not any particular risk.Kerfuffle wrote:especially for a Russian player
The "contract year" stuff only matters in context. And Tank is either very, very into his hockey or he's an enormous bullshitter. I guess it could be the latter but I mean, the kid still talks about advice he gets from his grandpa all the time. He seems pretty ingenuous. Joking aside, he's never had the character questions that floated over Kane as a prospect.
This isn't Semin getting a stupid deal in a bad market. Unless something goes seriously wrong this deal will be one of the best values in the league in a few years. Maybe sooner. We'll see.
Gotta remember the tax structure there. What'll he get of that $60M here? About $45 or so? Maybe more like $40?cprice12 wrote:The fact that he turned down a reported 3 year $33 million deal from the KHL is pretty significant. Yes, the total amount of the contract is almost double what the total amount of the KHL deal was
Can't mention that without a shoutout to the Flyers and their 14-year offer sheet with Webber. Positively Milburesque.theohall wrote:8 years is the limit on NHL contract lengths now. It was part of the latest CBA after the nonsense the Wild pulled just prior to the lockout.
Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Good point...forgot about that.theohall wrote:8 years is the limit on NHL contract lengths now. It was part of the latest CBA after the nonsense the Wild pulled just prior to the lockout.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Gotta worry about fireworks too, apparently.WaukeeBlues wrote:Erik "golf cart"
JohnsonJoe "snowblower" Sakic
Rory "soccer ball" McIlroy...
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
I did toocprice12 wrote:Good point...forgot about that.theohall wrote:8 years is the limit on NHL contract lengths now. It was part of the latest CBA after the nonsense the Wild pulled just prior to the lockout.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Of course it's risky. He could suck from here on out and never score 20 goals again.
But you sign him anyway since he looks great right now.
But you sign him anyway since he looks great right now.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Good god, what was Pierre-Paul thinking? Obvious answer to my own question: he wasn't.ecbm wrote:Gotta worry about fireworks too, apparently.WaukeeBlues wrote:Erik "golf cart"
JohnsonJoe "snowblower" Sakic
Rory "soccer ball" McIlroy...
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Of course this could backfire. Any big contract can... but this is the kind of guy you take a risk to sign. I thought the same about Petro. Franchise caliber type guys.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
Yeah it was much needed. It's 8 years max if you resign your own guys - but it's 7 max if you sign someone from another team - gives the home team an edge which I think is good.theohall wrote:8 years is the limit on NHL contract lengths now. It was part of the latest CBA after the nonsense the Wild pulled just prior to the lockout.
Many abused the old CBA but you had to in order to get the guys you wanted and keep up. We did with Keith and Hossa, Detroit did it with Zetterberg, Kings with Quick. My favorite is the Islanders with a 15 year deal to DiPietro and we all know how that worked out.
Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
I agree with the rest of your post but I cut it down in length here to respond to this piece. You really feel Tank is more dynamic than Hull? I look at the numbers for Hull that he put up for you guys and it's just mouthwatering - I don't think Tank or anyone dethrones Hull - I still see him as the best Blues player in history. I don't remember the backstory on how or why he left but I do remember being shocked that he wasn't a Blues for life.cprice12 wrote:This organization has had some outstanding players play here and I think Tank is already the most dynamic of the bunch. More dynamic than Hull, Pronger, MacInnis, Shanahan, Turgeon, etc.
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Re: Tarasenko Signed!!!! 8/$60MM
I'm just curious what the hell happened. Even when you're hammered it's a really simple processglen a richter wrote:Good god, what was Pierre-Paul thinking? Obvious answer to my own question: he wasn't.ecbm wrote:Gotta worry about fireworks too, apparently.WaukeeBlues wrote:Erik "golf cart"
JohnsonJoe "snowblower" Sakic
Rory "soccer ball" McIlroy...
1) Mortar pointing the right way?
2) Light fuse
3) Scamper away
Unless he was holding a cake or something I have no idea how the hell you screw that up...
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