What do you expect today? (trade deadline day)

[theohall]

Just want to point out one thing....

Given the depth in the draft this season, especially among forwards, would parting with a 2016 1st round draft pick really be the best thing for this team considering the age of some key players??

Steen 32
Backes 31

Those are two forwards who will need to be replaced hopefully with similar skill. That skill is available in this year's 1st round. Parting with it for a rental would've been a mistake, IMO.

I'm surprised at the team's that did give up first round draft picks for rentals.

[cprice12]

Just want to point out one thing....

Given the depth in the draft this season, especially among forwards, would parting with a 2016 1st round draft pick really be the best thing for this team considering the age of some key players??

Steen 32
Backes 31

Those are two forwards who will need to be replaced hopefully with similar skill. That skill is available in this year's 1st round. Parting with it for a rental would've been a mistake, IMO.

I'm surprised at the team's that did give up first round draft picks for rentals.

I wouldn't have given up a 1st rounder for a rental.
But I would have given up a 1st rounder in a package for Drouin. He is likely better than anything we would draft in the 1st round anyway, plus he is NHL ready right now. It would be like drafting him...which I am fine with.

[ecbm]

Picks are just that...picks, they are not proven players.

As much of a gamble as draft picks are, it seems like deadline FA's share the same sort of high risk gamble.

Yep. Ryan Miller was "proven" in 2014. In the same vein:

hell, last year they at least got Michalek and Jokinen

See, like that. Jokinen, ok, got him for Lindstrom. For Michalek we gave up a pretty well-regarded prospect who may yet become something. And for that we got 21 games of "meh". Oh well, at least we got a third coming back.

The Ducks got depth forward Brandon Pirri (who has 24 points in 52 games this year) for a 6th round draft pick. SIXTH round.

Yeah, that was a nice one for the Ducks. I'd probably have done it. But honestly, I could see it causing problems. Who would he displace? Berglund or Pajaarvi? That would only raise the question of why Fabbri hadn't already. Also, would that mean that Fabbri is definitely a 3rd-liner? I wouldn't trust Hitch to make appropriate use of any personnel anyway-see the situation cited above involving Pajaarvi, Jaskin and Rattie.

I am disappointed that Army didn't unload some dead weight for picks to some desperate or overreaching/reacting team.

Also totally agree with that. Again, the problem is the coach. He doesn't agree with us on who is dead weight. See, again: Pajaarvi vs Rattie, Bouwmeester vs Parayko & Berglund vs Fabbri.

[cprice12]

Last summer (and the summer before that) I advocated for bringing Lee Stempniak back into the fold. Welp...
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/704403485857595392

Me too. I thought that he would have been a low risk high reward type guy the last couple years.

Some of this stuff just makes me scratch my head.

[ecbm]

Last summer (and the summer before that) I advocated for bringing Lee Stempniak back into the fold. Welp...
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/704403485857595392

Me too. I thought that he would have been a low risk high reward type guy the last couple years.

Some of this stuff just makes me scratch my head.

I can see this one-but this year he went for a fourth and second. That's nuts. He's scoring but he's also playing 19 minutes a night on the Devils top line with lots of PP time. That wouldn't be the case on any good team.

Honestly, I'd just like to see the young players given a fair go. You don't have to be 25 to play in this league.

[ComradeT]

I think that Armstrong might have deliberately punted this season. I get that once the postseason starts, anything can happen, but the likelihood of anyone competing with Washington this season is slim. That team is light years ahead of everyone else, and it would be nonsensical to make a kneejerk trade in reaction to what everyone else in the division was doing just to have a shot at MAYBE getting to the SCF and promptly being swept out by the Caps. Armstrong recognized that too many teams were getting better around the Blues so getting to the SCF wouldn't be a shoo-in anyway and if they made it there, it would be a longshot to win anyway.

Or, he's just totally incompetent. In either case, he needs to go this offseason.

Yeah, that. The logic behind "we might not make it far and if we do we'll still lose to Caps" is flawed in so many ways.

What I wonder - and this has been discussed and I think we determined that this wasn't the case... What I wonder if whether the money is really there. What if it's not the cap but the $$$. Of course that begs the question what is Ott still doing on the team, so maybe money is not the problem after all.

[dmiles2186]

Last summer (and the summer before that) I advocated for bringing Lee Stempniak back into the fold. Welp...
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/704403485857595392

Me too. I thought that he would have been a low risk high reward type guy the last couple years.

Some of this stuff just makes me scratch my head.

I can see this one-but this year he went for a fourth and second. That's nuts. He's scoring but he's also playing 19 minutes a night on the Devils top line with lots of PP time. That wouldn't be the case on any good team.

Honestly, I'd just like to see the young players given a fair go. You don't have to be 25 to play in this league.

We've give young guys a chance. Some have been not-so-great (Jaskin, Paajarvi). Others have been fantastic but Hitch isn't giving them time (Fabbri, Rattie).

My thing with Stempniak is this team lacks scoring. He's a proven scorer. No, he's not going to net you 30 goals. I've never asked for a top tier scorer in this entire process because those guys aren't easy to acquire without giving up an arm and a leg, then another arm and another leg. I've been wanting a guy who would slot in on the 3rd line, give you scoring punch there, then in case of injury (which there's been plenty to go around) you could bump him up a line or two and give him more PP duties. Stempniak fits that description to a T. And I'm not saying this in hindsight. I've posted here the last two summers hoping Stempy would be back. This is the type of depth I've wanted all along, not just Olli Jokinen.

[dmiles2186]

Also, there is this....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... soc_trk=tw

[theohall]

My thing with Stempniak is this team lacks scoring. He's a proven scorer. No, he's not going to net you 30 goals. I've never asked for a top tier scorer in this entire process because those guys aren't easy to acquire without giving up an arm and a leg, then another arm and another leg. I've been wanting a guy who would slot in on the 3rd line, give you scoring punch there, then in case of injury (which there's been plenty to go around) you could bump him up a line or two and give him more PP duties. Stempniak fits that description to a T. And I'm not saying this in hindsight. I've posted here the last two summers hoping Stempy would be back. This is the type of depth I've wanted all along, not just Olli Jokinen.

Agreed on Stempniak. He's the kind of depth that is capable of stepping up if a Steen or Schwartz are injured while providing full-time punch as a 3rd line forward.

[theohall]

Also, there is this....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... soc_trk=tw

Couple of nitpicks in the article.

1) He's blaming Armstrong for not giving Hitchcock firepower. Well, Hitchcock won't play the damn firepower - See Rattie vs Jaskin/Paajarvi. This is where the GM should just send Paajarvi and Jaskin down to force Hitchock to play Rattie, but these two work too closely and, IMO, he's giving Hitchcock what he prefers instead of forcing him to play the talent in the organization. Sometimes the GM needs to kick the coach in the butt, but that won't happen here. That's where Armstrong is not succeeding.

2) He showed the Blues scoring for the season - that meager 2.45 goals / game. Said this yesterday and I'll repeat it. What is the Blues scoring when the top 9 forwards are healthy? It's 4+ goals per game. Yes, it's a gamble not adding depth and counting on those players to be healthy. At the same time this season's draft class is so deep, teams were demanding high picks for rentals which is nuts! And team's were giving up the picks.

3) Comparing to Chicago is a mistake. The Blackhawks have a young, superstar core - Kane and Toews are both 27. The Blues are a mix of older players and a few young stars. The Blues need the draft picks to improve. The Hawks don't right now.

Aside from the article, how in the hell would Drouin help, knowing he is already a head case, when Hitchcock won't even play Rattie over lesser talent?? The problem is the head coach being too involved in player personnel decisions. It's like Hitch is the GM and Armstrong does whatever Hitch tells him in terms of current roster.

[ecbm]

So we want to get Stempniak-for a second rounder and a fourth rounder (cap not an issue with him; he makes $850K this year and could have been fit without moving anyone)-to enable Hitch to continue to underuse Rattie and Fabbri? To let him continue to Keenan-ize the squad?

I would see this as a huge reach. I would rather straightforwardly punt on this season and start over under someone other than Hitchcock.

My thing with Stempniak is this team lacks scoring. He's a proven scorer.

He's topped 40 points this year for the first time in six seasons. He's playing nearly 19 minutes a night and he's on NJ's top PP unit. The production wouldn't translate here.

Agreed on Stempniak. He's the kind of depth that is capable of stepping up if a Steen or Schwartz are injured while providing full-time punch as a 3rd line forward.

If someone in the top 6 gets hurt, it should automatically be Fabbri going there with Rattie filling the spot vacated by the former. No need to give up a couple picks including valuable second rounder for a guy who will be gone next season.

[dmiles2186]

So we want to get Stempniak-for a second rounder and a fourth rounder (cap not an issue with him; he makes $850K this year and could have been fit without moving anyone)-to enable Hitch to continue to underuse Rattie and Fabbri? To let him continue to Keenan-ize the squad?

I would see this as a huge reach. I would rather straightforwardly punt on this season and start over under someone other than Hitchcock.

My thing with Stempniak is this team lacks scoring. He's a proven scorer.

He's topped 40 points this year for the first time in six seasons. He's playing nearly 19 minutes a night and he's on NJ's top PP unit. The production wouldn't translate here.

Agreed on Stempniak. He's the kind of depth that is capable of stepping up if a Steen or Schwartz are injured while providing full-time punch as a 3rd line forward.

If someone in the top 6 gets hurt, it should automatically be Fabbri going there with Rattie filling the spot vacated by the former. No need to give up a couple picks including valuable second rounder for a guy who will be gone next season.

You missed my point: I wanted Stempniak in the summer and posted as such here. I did the same thing in the summer of 2014 as well. I brought him up because of the 'cap problems' that Army is using to make excuses for not doing anything. Stempy could have been had for 850k last summer.

Who would you rather have on your 3rd line right now? Stempniak or Jaskin/Paajarvi?

[ecbm]

Also, there is this....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... soc_trk=tw

I can't say I put much stock by the opinions of a guy who sees it as a positive that Minnesota added "a body" and asserts that the Blues should have given up futures since every other contender in the west did, which he bolsters with the astute and mature observation that if the Blues didn't, it's cuz they're skeeeered! I guess he makes it clear: Wyshinski was looking for boldness and, you know, something to write about. I just want a good squad that's well coached.

I'm not sure exactly how he squares his position on futures with his own mention of the Blues getting Parayko in the 3rd round. Yep, no value in futures. Better to give up some picks and prospects for Daniel Winnik, John-Michael Liles or Teddy Purcell.

[ecbm]

You missed my point: I wanted Stempniak in the summer and posted as such here. I did the same thing in the summer of 2014 as well. I brought him up because of the 'cap problems' that Army is using to make excuses for not doing anything. Stempy could have been had for 850k last summer. Who would you rather have on your 3rd line right now? Stempniak or Jaskin/Paajarvi?

Fair enough. Again, though-I think this gets at a problem that maybe even Army has come around to realizing can not be solved with acquisitions. Neither Jaskin nor Pajaarvi should be in this squad on any line at this point. With everyone healthy they should be odd men out. But they aren't. Berglund has no business on the second line when Fabbri looks likely to get 20 goals with minimal TOI. Rattie should displace one of the dreck players as well. But he doesn't.

I have to say, of the Blues FO moves of the last couple days, I'm much more scandalized by Rattie being sent down than no trade being made.

[dmiles2186]

You missed my point: I wanted Stempniak in the summer and posted as such here. I did the same thing in the summer of 2014 as well. I brought him up because of the 'cap problems' that Army is using to make excuses for not doing anything. Stempy could have been had for 850k last summer. Who would you rather have on your 3rd line right now? Stempniak or Jaskin/Paajarvi?

Fair enough. Again, though-I think this gets at a problem that maybe even Army has come around to realizing can not be solved with acquisitions. Neither Jaskin nor Pajaarvi should be in this squad on any line at this point. With everyone healthy they should be odd men out. But they aren't. Berglund has no business on the second line when Fabbri looks likely to get 20 goals with minimal TOI. Rattie should displace one of the dreck players as well. But he doesn't.

I have to say, of the Blues FO moves of the last couple days, I'm much more scandalized by Rattie being sent down than no trade being made.

We completely agree on these points. Thing about Rattie that I read, but not 100% on, is that sending him down was to beat the deadline that would allow him to be eligible for the AHL playoffs. Even still, who cares about that? He's been killing it up here.

[glen a richter]

The thing that aggravates me to no end is that the prospects and general youth we have in this system are amazing. They'll form an incredible team when you look at a defensive corp of Parayko, Shatty, Dunn, Schmaltz, Vannelli, Walman and Pie where you have to decide which one to relegate to #7 or more likely which one to trade for a haul, that defense can be a complete offensive catalyst on every single shift. Factor in Tarasenko and Schwartz, Fabbri, Rattie, Blais, Gawdin, complemented by veteran offensive talent, then throw in Husso in net, I mean this team could be completely stacked top to bottom in the next couple of years and the inactivity by Armstrong tells me that he's not prepared to mortgage that future for a possible, but unlikely deep playoff run this year. Yet at the same time, all of that talent will be wasted if Hitch stays on, and there's little reason to believe Hitch won't stay on. If he stayed on last season, he'll stay on next season and the season after. The decision on coaching, as long as Armstrong is GM, rests solely on whether or not Hitch wants to stay employed. What I'd like to know, then, is why Stillman isn't stepping in? How can he not see the situation? This team has the personnel to be unstoppable, and the only man in the world who can stop them is their coach. Hitch is the only reason I'm pessimistic about the future. Change coaches to someone who will promote a more dynamic system and the players will do the rest.

[theohall]

Thing about Rattie that I read, but not 100% on, is that sending him down was to beat the deadline that would allow him to be eligible for the AHL playoffs. Even still, who cares about that? He's been killing it up here.

They sent Jaskin and Edmundson down also, yet immediately recalled them. They could have left Jaskin down and done the send down/recall thing with Rattie, who is producing. They could have sent Paajarvi down, left him there, and done the send down and recall thing with Rattie.

More goals in fewer games with lesser ice time per game than 3 players combined. It boggles the mind when the team lacks scoring that Rattie is the one who stays in the minors.

So, unfortunately, that excuse points out the failures by the organization - meaning Hitchcock and Armstrong - to actually keep the guys capable of scoring where they belong.

[glen a richter]

Thing about Rattie that I read, but not 100% on, is that sending him down was to beat the deadline that would allow him to be eligible for the AHL playoffs. Even still, who cares about that? He's been killing it up here.

They sent Jaskin and Edmundson down also, yet immediately recalled them. They could have left Jaskin down and done the send down/recall thing with Rattie, who is producing. They could have sent Paajarvi down, left him there, and done the send down and recall thing with Rattie.

More goals in fewer games with lesser ice time per game than 3 players combined. It boggles the mind when the team lacks scoring that Rattie is the one who stays in the minors.

So, unfortunately, that excuse points out the failures by the organization - meaning Hitchcock and Armstrong - to actually keep the guys capable of scoring where they belong.

I'll repeat: When does Stillman step in and say enough is enough? The man owns the flipping team! Surely he can override any decision made by anyone beneath him pertaining to who the GM is, who the coach is, and which players stay and which ones go back to the AHL.

I wish we had an owner like Mark Cuban. He's invested in the success of his team, he's down there courtside all the time, he's visible and he cares about how the team performs. What's Stillman doing?

[dmiles2186]

Thing about Rattie that I read, but not 100% on, is that sending him down was to beat the deadline that would allow him to be eligible for the AHL playoffs. Even still, who cares about that? He's been killing it up here.

They sent Jaskin and Edmundson down also, yet immediately recalled them. They could have left Jaskin down and done the send down/recall thing with Rattie, who is producing. They could have sent Paajarvi down, left him there, and done the send down and recall thing with Rattie.

More goals in fewer games with lesser ice time per game than 3 players combined. It boggles the mind when the team lacks scoring that Rattie is the one who stays in the minors.

So, unfortunately, that excuse points out the failures by the organization - meaning Hitchcock and Armstrong - to actually keep the guys capable of scoring where they belong.

I'll repeat: When does Stillman step in and say enough is enough? The man owns the flipping team! Surely he can override any decision made by anyone beneath him pertaining to who the GM is, who the coach is, and which players stay and which ones go back to the AHL.

I wish we had an owner like Mark Cuban. He's invested in the success of his team, he's down there courtside all the time, he's visible and he cares about how the team performs. What's Stillman doing?

I find it funny that you bring up Cuban because, honestly, Stillman is visible, he's invested in the success of the team (he's spending near the cap and allowed Army the resources he needed), and as a fan he obviously cares about the team. Cuban wasn't a Mavs fan UNTIL he became their owner. Stillman was a fan of the Blues already prior to becoming an owner. I think the difference is that Cuban is much more public and vocal about his thought process and maneuvers. Who is to say that Stillman hasn't had conversations with Army? We don't know because doing this in the media doesn't appear to be Stillman's style.

But I do agree with your point in that when will Stillman say enough is enough? Last year he was public that the losses hurt and he wanted changes. I don't think he'll sit idly by if it happens again, but obviously that's a pure guess on my part.

[cprice12]

If we bow out in Rd. 1 again... at the very least, Hitchcock is gone. Stillman isn't stupid. He wants to win. And losing in the first round every year after having great regular seasons isn't going to cut it.
And they don't have to fire him...they just don't have to renew his contract.