The Offseason

[DaDitka]

The Blues have numerous two’s

No, they have 'A' number two in Johnson. A possible #2 in Carlo, but they are letting him walk. I'd be very hard pressed to even call Brewer a #3, and whatever # you would assign to Jackman would have a 1 in front of it.

[JWatt (formerly PMS)]

The Blues have numerous two’s

No, they have 'A' number two in Johnson. A possible #2 in Carlo, but they are letting him walk. I'd be very hard pressed to even call Brewer a #3, and whatever # you would assign to Jackman would have a 1 in front of it.

Carlo is mediocre defensively. He's no more of a #2 than Jackman.

We have a #3 (Johnson), several #4s (Carlo, Jackman (I'm being nice), Polak), and bunch of 5-7s (Weaver, Brewer, Sydor). I think we can count on Johnson to be a #2 next year, but that still leaves us lacking in the top two pairings. We need a player like Paul Martin that is at least a #2-3 guy as well. Let Cola walk, trade/buyout Brewer, sign Martin, call up Petro, and then our defense is at least OKAY.

[DaDitka]

The Blues have numerous two’s

No, they have 'A' number two in Johnson. A possible #2 in Carlo, but they are letting him walk. I'd be very hard pressed to even call Brewer a #3, and whatever # you would assign to Jackman would have a 1 in front of it.

Carlo is mediocre defensively. He's no more of a #2 than Jackman.

We have a #3 (Johnson), several #4s (Carlo, Jackman (I'm being nice), Polak), and bunch of 5-7s (Weaver, Brewer, Sydor). I think we can count on Johnson to be a #2 next year, but that still leaves us lacking in the top two pairings. We need a player like Paul Martin that is at least a #2-3 guy as well. Let Cola walk, trade/buyout Brewer, sign Martin, call up Petro, and then our defense is at least OKAY.

I can't really argue with any of that. But I really wonder if there hadn't been so much hate for Brewer and love for Jackman before, how many would actually admit that Brewer has been far better than Jackman. They've both been terrible, so it's kind of like arguing over who is the tallest midget, but that is how bad Jackman has gotten. He's clearly been the worst f the two since the Olympics. I think the reason it bothers me so much is we know Jackman can play better and it's simply a matter of between the ears (or in the chest), I'm not sure Brewer has ever been a better player then what he's showing so it's more disappointment in management for continuing to back and pay him than actual frustration with his level of Suck.

[SteveO]

I bet both Brewer and Jackman are on the opening day roster.

[fargoblues]

I bet both Brewer and Jackman are on the opening day roster.

Sadly, you will probably win.

[Krigloch the Furious]

I actually think that Brewer has been decent since Murray being gone.
Jackman though, wow he sucks.

[strocklen083]

OK, here's my analysis of what this team needs:

1.) More grit. And I'm not talking about grinders or energy guys. I'm talking about guys like Brewer (obviously), Berglund, Oshie (at times), etc going hard towards the puck to keep it in the offensive zone or to get it out of our zone. Too many times this year I've seen these guys get out worked along the boards. Either in their piss poor attempts to clear the puck or in the lazy way they try to chip the puck into the corner only to see it not get back the first defensemen. It's embarasing and I'm tired of watching it.

2.) Goaltending. Mason ranks in the middle third of the league in the two major goaltending statistics. That's what I would consider mediocre or average goaltending. Sure, he makes some fantastic saves at times. But he also gives a hell of a lot of soft goals. Now I don't know if those goals are just a product of the piss poor defensively play in front of him (I'm looking at you Captain Incompetent!) or just his inability to nut up. Either way we need to find a solid option here and I'm just afraid at the price he costs Mason isn't the guy.

- I also realize we need to put the puck in the net. But I honestly believe we have the talent to do that, it just isn't clicking for what ever reason. Maybe a trade of one of the younger guys is in line, but I'm personally not ready to give up on them yet.

[DaDitka]

I actually think that Brewer has been decent since Murray being gone.

Wow, someone that will actually admit that.

I can't tell you how many Jackman diehards that apparently don't watch hockey will probably crucify you for that post.

Of course, that said, I wonder if my 'satisfaction' with Brewer's play of late is because my expectations are so low or because I'm comparing him to Jackman. I don't think he's playing 4.5 million dollar good, but he hasn't been as terrible and I think some of that has to do with the fact that they haven't been over exposing him buy taking him off the PP and stuff like that.

[gaijin]

So we have opinions ranging from better offense, to better defense, to better goaltending, to better coaching, to more grit, to better luck. Is it safe to say we just want a better team?

I'm all for offense, offense, and more offense. We may lose some games due to defense and goaltending, but at least it will be more entertaining to watch.

[BoxCar]

I don't like Jackman, I don't think he is an elite player nor will he ever be. But I also don't like failing to give credit where credit is due. I've said this before and I have all the proof I need to back it up:

1) Jackman does more for this team than Brewer and Coliacovo. His turnovers are horrible, but he scores as much as they do and Jackman is suppose to be a defensive defenseman.
2) Jackman plays more PK minutes than any other defenseman on this team and is in the top 10 in the league, that PK that he heads is top 5 in the league (best on the road).
3) Jackman plays rougher than Brewer and Coliacovo combined (if you could quantify it that way).
4) His +/- is decent given he plays a large prt of games on the PK.

Jackman is a NHL defenseman on every NHL team. He clearly isn't a 1 or 2, but he cracks most team's 2nd pairing, and is as solid a 5th d-man as can be had.

Brewer is the only defenseman I'd demand off the team due to play. The others would be NICE to replace, but aren't necessary to replace.

Also, if you don't agree that Weaver has consistently been rock solid out there you clearly haven't been watching.

[DaDitka]

Also, if you don't agree that Weaver has consistently been rock solid out there you clearly haven't been watching.

Couldn't agree with you more on the Weaves, but you're completely missing the boat on Jackman. It's not just the turnovers, he's out of position more then Mason (and that's saying something).

Since the break (and perhaps as far back on the coaching change) Brewer has been better then Jackman PERIOD. With the puck, without the puck, offensively, defensively, even physically. Sure I've seen Jackman get in a guys face after a play, but he's not even winning battles on the boards.

That said, I don't want either of them back at 4 mill.

So I don't want to argue with anyone over which one has to go, undoubtedly the team is better off without either of them then to have either of them at their current salary.

[TheoSqua]

Jackman and Mason have been the difference defensively from last season and this season. Last season Jackman was terrific through last 20 games or so, especially considering the amount of time he was getting due to injuries. This season, not so much. Last season Mason was on fire to end the season, this season.....not so much.

[BoxCar]

No doubt I'd love to replace both, and Jackman hasn't been as good down the stretch as last year, but we don't have a bounty of realistic replacement options. I am simply saying that Jackman has value over replacements. Jackman on this team isn't the problem, as you've pointed out jackman's contract and position as a top 3 dman IS the problem.

Fix scoring first, pls. Getting rid of Brewer would hopefully produce an increase in scoring.

[DaDitka]

Jackman on this team isn't the problem,

I completely disagree.

Only Sydor is worse at this point.

If Jackman is you #5 or #6 defenseman and those ahead of him are very solid, you could survive. But in all seriousness, I would rather have Tyson Strachan out there even if all things (contract) we even. I'm not kidding at all. He's been THAT BAD the last month.

[JWatt (formerly PMS)]

Jackman and Mason have been the difference defensively from last season and this season. Last season Jackman was terrific through last 20 games or so, especially considering the amount of time he was getting due to injuries. This season, not so much. Last season Mason was on fire to end the season, this season.....not so much.

What were you watching? Jackman was awful the last month last year after he got injured in the San Jose game. He was -5 from March on (with us basically winning 8 out of every 10 games and every other defenseman being +5 or better during that stretch, save for Polak), and he was on the ice for 8 of the 10 goals scored on us (not including empty net) during the playoff series. He was so bad once his knee was hurt, he was hurting the team by still playing.

Jackman has at least been OKAY this season, and I'm one of his biggest critics. His problem is that he'll be solid for a couple games or for most of the game against some top lines and on the penalty kill, but then he'll do two of the stupidest things you could possibly imagine to stick out and draw the fans ire. I will say, for as many mistakes as he makes, he gets away with a lot of them, whether it be Polak bailing him out on a 2-on-1 or the goalie making a save on a breakaway. Most of his most boneheaded plays have gone unpunished.

Jackman is okay as a #4-5 defenseman making $2.5MM/yr, but not as a top paring defenseman making $3.625MM/yr.

Brewer isn't even that good, and the numbers don't lie. As bad as Jackman has been, he's +6, not -19 like Brewer. I know Brewer has been playing better, but I don't think that Brewer is anything more than a pressbox defenseman at this point in his career.

[TheoSqua]

Looking back, I guess it wasn't the last 20 games I was thinking of, but more the 20 games prior. I was just making a similar point to this:

Yes, Jackman's play has something to do with our recent success. When Jackman doesn't play like @ss, we have a chance to win. When he does play like @ss, not even Mason can bail his @ss out. We're not basing this on one game. Jackman has probably played about 15-20 $hitty games this year.

[northwest dave]

Jackman on this team isn't the problem,

I completely disagree.

Only Sydor is worse at this point.

If Jackman is you #5 or #6 defenseman and those ahead of him are very solid, you could survive. But in all seriousness, I would rather have Tyson Strachan out there even if all things (contract) we even. I'm not kidding at all. He's been THAT BAD the last month.

Strachan...

[not_a_wings_fan]

So now what?
The playoffs are all but out of reach now.

What do you guys want to see happen?

Who do we resign?
Who do we let walk?
What free agents do we target?
What will the goaltending look like next season?
Will Payne be retained as head coach?

List of available free agents...a lot of interesting names out there right now:
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php

The Blues UFA's and RFA's:
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php? ... eason=0910

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27786&st=0&sk=t&sd=a I still think you should have locked this thread/never started it because you are only about 30 days late to the party.



Ok, now that everyone understands that it isn't going to happen...

I fully expect that one of oshie/berglund/perron is going to be dealt this offseason, as well as other consideration, to get a #1 center for this team.

If we don't find a way to pick up a playmaker - or a scorer if we don't get a play maker - then you might as well write off any cup hopes for next year right now.

Additionally, I think our defensive problems are much harder to fix. EJ had a good season and progressed very well. I expect him to continue to improve, but we still need more on defense. Pie isn't going to fix anything in his own zone, but adds some offense. There are lots of guys that we want to dump, but who replaces them and how do we get them?

[Nyghtewynd]

No advancement of younger players. No games to figure out what to do next year. Expensive vets continually costing the team points. And a bad draft pick.

Ladies and gentlemen, the 2009-2010 Blues couldn't have done any worse. I can't see how keeping the status quo, either by players or front office folks, is acceptable.

[DaDitka]

No advancement of younger players. No games to figure out what to do next year. Expensive vets continually costing the team points. And a bad draft pick.

Ladies and gentlemen, the 2009-2010 Blues couldn't have done any worse. I can't see how keeping the status quo, either by players or front office folks, is acceptable.

Totally agree, but their answer to you will be that Armstrong is replacing Larry.

JD has to find a solid answer in the pipes, he has to unload either Jackman or Brewer (or both), and he has to get some help from a draft pick (existing 'prospect', not a pick in this years draft). I give him about a 40% chance of accomplishing even one of these things, but I truly hope I'm wrong.

At least it sounds as though they know how pissed the fans are, but now they not only have to act on it, they have to make the right moves.