Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby #1ELPBluzFan » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:49 pm

If you had a chance to catch the Blues Live tonight pre-game show...they had a snipet of the "Round Table" with Brett Hull and several others. Anyway, Darren Pang asked Brett about the whole "Bringing Gretzky to STL" deal:
a. Brett told him NOT to come to STL
b. after about 10 days, Gretz told Hull, "he should have listened"
c. I don't think ANY amount of $$$ would have been enough to put up with the likes of "Iron Mike"

:facepalm:
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby section319 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:33 pm

:lol:

Yeah, I saw that, I thought it was pretty funny.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby Carl Racki » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:58 am

cprice12 wrote:He only scored 9 goals in his last season. There is no guarantee he would have gotten 6 goals had he played another year.

Imagine being accustomed to scoring 40-50-60-70+ goals in a season, and only scoring 9 when you are nearing the end of your career.
I'm sure he felt it was time to go since he wasn't performing at a level he would have liked or was used to.

The game was also changing. Gretzky was ahead of his time, but time and the skill level around him caught up and the game had started to focus a lot more on defense. It was tougher to score. There was a lot less room on the ice, goaltending was getting much better, the game was speeding up, the players were getting bigger...and he was getting older.

And retiring in '99 was kind of cool I guess.



He's still a douche for turning down a 3 year, $15 million contract from us and signing a 2-year, $8 million contract with the Rangers. He was a proven playoff performer...the best of all time, and that is something the Blues lacked in the late 90's.

First of all, I am not diminishing anything Gretzky did...he was and is, the best player ever. He was ridiculous. However, if you watch anything on him from the 80's, or even early 90's, defensive zone coverage and goalkeeping was just ridiculously bad when compared to today's standards. The upgrades in goalie equipment and defensive schemes now compared to then are hard to deny. All that being said, Gretzky's dominance probably had a lot to do with all the defensive adjustments, which is even more proof of Gretzky's dominance and legacy. Still the best thing I have ever seen live when he was announced as the starting center vs. the Panthers at his first home game. Bone chilling. Hell, even Calhoun's voice broke.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:23 am

#1ELPBluzFan wrote:If you had a chance to catch the Blues Live tonight pre-game show...they had a snipet of the "Round Table" with Brett Hull and several others. Anyway, Darren Pang asked Brett about the whole "Bringing Gretzky to STL" deal:
a. Brett told him NOT to come to STL
b. after about 10 days, Gretz told Hull, "he should have listened"
c. I don't think ANY amount of $$$ would have been enough to put up with the likes of "Iron Mike"

:facepalm:


Not to mention several of his Edmonton butt-buddies were with the Rangers. I felt that was the biggest reason more than anything else. Chance to play with Messier again.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby goon attack » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:51 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
#1ELPBluzFan wrote:If you had a chance to catch the Blues Live tonight pre-game show...they had a snipet of the "Round Table" with Brett Hull and several others. Anyway, Darren Pang asked Brett about the whole "Bringing Gretzky to STL" deal:
a. Brett told him NOT to come to STL
b. after about 10 days, Gretz told Hull, "he should have listened"
c. I don't think ANY amount of $$$ would have been enough to put up with the likes of "Iron Mike"

:facepalm:


Not to mention several of his Edmonton butt-buddies were with the Rangers. I felt that was the biggest reason more than anything else. Chance to play with Messier again.


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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby BF44 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:59 pm

Carl Racki wrote:
cprice12 wrote:He only scored 9 goals in his last season. There is no guarantee he would have gotten 6 goals had he played another year.

Imagine being accustomed to scoring 40-50-60-70+ goals in a season, and only scoring 9 when you are nearing the end of your career.
I'm sure he felt it was time to go since he wasn't performing at a level he would have liked or was used to.

The game was also changing. Gretzky was ahead of his time, but time and the skill level around him caught up and the game had started to focus a lot more on defense. It was tougher to score. There was a lot less room on the ice, goaltending was getting much better, the game was speeding up, the players were getting bigger...and he was getting older.

And retiring in '99 was kind of cool I guess.



He's still a douche for turning down a 3 year, $15 million contract from us and signing a 2-year, $8 million contract with the Rangers. He was a proven playoff performer...the best of all time, and that is something the Blues lacked in the late 90's.

First of all, I am not diminishing anything Gretzky did...he was and is, the best player ever. He was ridiculous. However, if you watch anything on him from the 80's, or even early 90's, defensive zone coverage and goalkeeping was just ridiculously bad when compared to today's standards. The upgrades in goalie equipment and defensive schemes now compared to then are hard to deny. All that being said, Gretzky's dominance probably had a lot to do with all the defensive adjustments, which is even more proof of Gretzky's dominance and legacy. Still the best thing I have ever seen live when he was announced as the starting center vs. the Panthers at his first home game. Bone chilling. Hell, even Calhoun's voice broke.


Seeing 99 in a Blues sweater was sorta surreal.... and yeah, he only stayed for 18 games, but that's 18 games more than fans in 27 other cities saw him lace 'em up for the home side. And if not for Nick Kypreos and a bad goal by Casey, we may well win the Cup that year......
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:24 pm

goon attack wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
#1ELPBluzFan wrote:If you had a chance to catch the Blues Live tonight pre-game show...they had a snipet of the "Round Table" with Brett Hull and several others. Anyway, Darren Pang asked Brett about the whole "Bringing Gretzky to STL" deal:
a. Brett told him NOT to come to STL
b. after about 10 days, Gretz told Hull, "he should have listened"
c. I don't think ANY amount of $$$ would have been enough to put up with the likes of "Iron Mike"

:facepalm:


Not to mention several of his Edmonton butt-buddies were with the Rangers. I felt that was the biggest reason more than anything else. Chance to play with Messier again.


Why are you such a homophobe?


:roll: Love you too Goon.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:09 am

BF44 wrote:
Carl Racki wrote:
cprice12 wrote:He only scored 9 goals in his last season. There is no guarantee he would have gotten 6 goals had he played another year.

Imagine being accustomed to scoring 40-50-60-70+ goals in a season, and only scoring 9 when you are nearing the end of your career.
I'm sure he felt it was time to go since he wasn't performing at a level he would have liked or was used to.

The game was also changing. Gretzky was ahead of his time, but time and the skill level around him caught up and the game had started to focus a lot more on defense. It was tougher to score. There was a lot less room on the ice, goaltending was getting much better, the game was speeding up, the players were getting bigger...and he was getting older.

And retiring in '99 was kind of cool I guess.



He's still a douche for turning down a 3 year, $15 million contract from us and signing a 2-year, $8 million contract with the Rangers. He was a proven playoff performer...the best of all time, and that is something the Blues lacked in the late 90's.

First of all, I am not diminishing anything Gretzky did...he was and is, the best player ever. He was ridiculous. However, if you watch anything on him from the 80's, or even early 90's, defensive zone coverage and goalkeeping was just ridiculously bad when compared to today's standards. The upgrades in goalie equipment and defensive schemes now compared to then are hard to deny. All that being said, Gretzky's dominance probably had a lot to do with all the defensive adjustments, which is even more proof of Gretzky's dominance and legacy. Still the best thing I have ever seen live when he was announced as the starting center vs. the Panthers at his first home game. Bone chilling. Hell, even Calhoun's voice broke.


Seeing 99 in a Blues sweater was sorta surreal.... and yeah, he only stayed for 18 games, but that's 18 games more than fans in 27 other cities saw him lace 'em up for the home side. And if not for Nick Kypreos and a bad goal by Casey, we may well win the Cup that year......


I find it hard to believe that Fuhr would have played better than Casey did against Detroit.

I'm still bitter at Corson for hitting the post on an open net in OT in game 7. :evil:
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:10 am

Carl Racki wrote:
cprice12 wrote:He only scored 9 goals in his last season. There is no guarantee he would have gotten 6 goals had he played another year.

Imagine being accustomed to scoring 40-50-60-70+ goals in a season, and only scoring 9 when you are nearing the end of your career.
I'm sure he felt it was time to go since he wasn't performing at a level he would have liked or was used to.

The game was also changing. Gretzky was ahead of his time, but time and the skill level around him caught up and the game had started to focus a lot more on defense. It was tougher to score. There was a lot less room on the ice, goaltending was getting much better, the game was speeding up, the players were getting bigger...and he was getting older.

And retiring in '99 was kind of cool I guess.



He's still a douche for turning down a 3 year, $15 million contract from us and signing a 2-year, $8 million contract with the Rangers. He was a proven playoff performer...the best of all time, and that is something the Blues lacked in the late 90's.

First of all, I am not diminishing anything Gretzky did...he was and is, the best player ever. He was ridiculous. However, if you watch anything on him from the 80's, or even early 90's, defensive zone coverage and goalkeeping was just ridiculously bad when compared to today's standards. The upgrades in goalie equipment and defensive schemes now compared to then are hard to deny. All that being said, Gretzky's dominance probably had a lot to do with all the defensive adjustments, which is even more proof of Gretzky's dominance and legacy. Still the best thing I have ever seen live when he was announced as the starting center vs. the Panthers at his first home game. Bone chilling. Hell, even Calhoun's voice broke.


Yeah, I know...that's what I said. :wink:
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby goon attack » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:09 pm

I think Gretzky, in this day and age... fair skater, not physical at all... elite skills... otherworldly hockey sense...

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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby STLADOGG » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:17 pm

Brett Farve......thts y
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby -C- » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:21 pm

xbleed83bluex wrote:Gretzky retired at only 38 in perfect healthy condition.


That's the thing, he wasn't in perfect health. He played in a lot of pain those last few years from arthritis in his neck, a result of the injury he sustained with the Blues.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby -C- » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:25 pm

cprice12 wrote:See:
Federov, Sergei
Mogilny, Alexander
Bure, Pavel

They all just kind of fell off the table all of a sudden.


Bure had bad knee problems that ended his career early. Same with Mogilny, IIRC. Federov just got old.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby -C- » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:27 pm

goon attack wrote:I think Gretzky, in this day and age... fair skater, not physical at all... elite skills... otherworldly hockey sense...

120 points per season, TOPS, injured often.


Hard to make that comparison because if Gretzky played today, he would have the same superior ice surface, equipment and training that current players enjoy. And considering the watered down talent because of expansion, he might have scored even more had he started his career today.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:41 pm

-C- wrote:
goon attack wrote:I think Gretzky, in this day and age... fair skater, not physical at all... elite skills... otherworldly hockey sense...

120 points per season, TOPS, injured often.


Hard to make that comparison because if Gretzky played today, he would have the same superior ice surface, equipment and training that current players enjoy. And considering the watered down talent because of expansion, he might have scored even more had he started his career today.


Yea but in the same breath one could argue that the talent pool has increased enough that the expansion has only "kept up" with the amazing growth of the sport that, to a large degree, Gretzky himself helped to facilitate
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby ViPeRx007 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:16 am

I think this amount of dipshitedness has roots far deeper than simply being a dipshit for retiring early. Gretzky was a dipshit long before he retired; one might even say he always was one. Some people are just born dipshits and there isn't anything you or I can do about it but continue to live our own existences to the best of our ability despite of it.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby goon attack » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:27 am

I disagree with your assessment, -C-. Gretz had Semenko then McSorley to protect him. That kind of thing is largely gone now. With goalies being so much better and more head injuries occurring nowadays, I think the Wayner would have been injured often and no more prolific than a guy like Crosby. His physical limitations would have been like Demitra's but his hockey sense would have allowed him to score 120-130.

I think his mediocre skating would have been his biggest problem in this NHL.
But hey, you might be right. Wtf do I know? 8)
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby -C- » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:30 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:Yea but in the same breath one could argue that the talent pool has increased enough that the expansion has only "kept up" with the amazing growth of the sport that, to a large degree, Gretzky himself helped to facilitate


No way has the talent pool kept up, IMO. The hockey played in the NHL today pales in comparison to the mid 1980s to mid 1990s when both Gretzky and Lemieux were in their primes.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby -C- » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:34 pm

goon attack wrote:Gretz had Semenko then McSorley to protect him.


I know that was the story but I didn't believe it back then either. Those guys may have kept Gretzky free from cheapshots but plenty of players tried to hit him and missed. Gretzky just played the game on a higher plane, he was always 2 steps ahead of everyone else on the ice.
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Re: Is Gretzky a dipshit for retiring so early?

Postby goon attack » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:18 pm

you're right that gretz was good at avoiding hits, but Dave Semenko was one of the top feared guys in the league at that time. It was like having Twist out there. I don't remember Demitra ever getting run while Twist was out there.

But there were plenty of other guys on those Oiler teams that would fight too and the Whinyer basically got to ice dance around his whole career. I saw him play many times and NOBODY took runs at him. I don't think that would happen nowadays. I think people would be looking to take him out.

I just don't think Gretz could have avoided all the physical stuff like he used to. Add in the fact that everybody wears a shield now and well, WHY NOT pummel Gretzky? All you gotta do is turtle if a goon comes after you.

This sums up Gretzky's career:



IMMEDIATE retaliation for knocking Gretz on his ass. No questions asked: you hit Gretzky, you're going to answer to somebody, period.

And with that flimsy helmet he wore, he'd be jellobrained in a few seasons in today's NHL.
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