Cory Schneider???

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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:52 am

glen a richter wrote:In order of priority on who I'd re-sign to a long term contract, regarding ONLY the guys we've drafted, I'd rank Berglund towards the bottom.

Johnson #1, Backes #2, Perron #3 & Oshie #4 (though those two are damned close), Polak #5, Berglund #6

Beyond that, we'll see what guys like Pietrangelo, Cole and Eller, etc.... all do. As it is now, these would be my priorities if I was making the call.

I just see Berglund as expendable.


Why do you think Backes is so important? He's never going to score more than 60 points in a season. If a good 3rd liner/average 2nd liner is our 2nd most important player going forward, then we have major problems.

Remember, Berglund scored 20 goals at age 21. Backes didn't score over 20 goals in a season until age 24. Backes scored 13 goals as a 23 year-old. Right now you are comparing apples and oranges. Just wait two more years, and you'll see who is going to be the better player.

Besides, I don't think Backes will be with the Blues after next year. I bet he tests free agency and some GM like Mike Gillis throws him another ridiculously overpriced contract relative to what he's done thus far. I know he's had a good season this year, but think along the lines of Tampa and Ryan Malone.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby glen a richter » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:11 am

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
glen a richter wrote:In order of priority on who I'd re-sign to a long term contract, regarding ONLY the guys we've drafted, I'd rank Berglund towards the bottom.

Johnson #1, Backes #2, Perron #3 & Oshie #4 (though those two are damned close), Polak #5, Berglund #6

Beyond that, we'll see what guys like Pietrangelo, Cole and Eller, etc.... all do. As it is now, these would be my priorities if I was making the call.

I just see Berglund as expendable.


Why do you think Backes is so important? He's never going to score more than 60 points in a season. If a good 3rd liner/average 2nd liner is our 2nd most important player going forward, then we have major problems.

Remember, Berglund scored 20 goals at age 21. Backes didn't score over 20 goals in a season until age 24. Backes scored 13 goals as a 23 year-old. Right now you are comparing apples and oranges. Just wait two more years, and you'll see who is going to be the better player.

Besides, I don't think Backes will be with the Blues after next year. I bet he tests free agency and some GM like Mike Gillis throws him another ridiculously overpriced contract relative to what he's done thus far. I know he's had a good season this year, but think along the lines of Tampa and Ryan Malone.


At the risk of sounding like Goon, what do you want on this team? A bunch of pansies with no one to protect them? Backes is just the type of player this team needs. He has offensive talent and chippiness, he can get the meaningful PIM's and he can contribute to shutting down an opposing line.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby section319 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:13 am

I like Backes, but I agree with JWATT completely. I also don't know why people are throwing out names like Berglund and Backes for this guy, goaltending isn't our problem right now it is scoring. People are wanting a superstar, goal scorer but then they want to give up either a 30 goal scorer last year or a huge prospect for us. I am starting to think anyone the Blues are rumored to be in trade talks with everyone just wants us to get them whether it makes sense or not. I understand we just can't find a goalie for shit, but I am also not sure this is the right trade for the Blues to be making, especially this season.

And Schneider is more unproven in the NHL than Berglund, at least Berglund put up 20 goals last season. Yeah, Schneider is awesome in the AHL and I am pretty sure Berglund would do pretty good down there too, maybe not with his current confidence level.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:21 am

glen a richter wrote:At the risk of sounding like Goon, what do you want on this team? A bunch of pansies with no one to protect them? Backes is just the type of player this team needs. He has offensive talent and chippiness, he can get the meaningful PIM's and he can contribute to shutting down an opposing line.


Backes is NOT skilled enough offensively to be on the 1st line and get the powerplay time he gets. He is NOT what we need. We have other players that have size and are chippy.

Do I want to get rid of Backes? No, I'd like to have him on the 3rd line when the Blues get good. However, I don't think he'll be around by the time the Blues are Cup contenders. He's a UFA after next season. He's previously refused to sign an extension with the Blues and signed with Vancouver as an RFA for more money. What makes you think he'll sign an extension with the Blues this time? I think he'll test UFA unless the Blues overpay to keep him around. I don't think he's worth overpaying to keep around. Guys with size that hit are just the type of players that NHL GMs stupidly overpay for. Ryan Malone (although he's having a good year this year) got a 7 year, $31.5MM contract. Would you give that to Backes? I wouldn't. I think next year is his last year in the note and maybe even this year if he refuses to sign an extension this offseason.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:25 am

section319 wrote:I like Backes, but I agree with JWATT completely. I also don't know why people are throwing out names like Berglund and Backes for this guy, goaltending isn't our problem right now it is scoring. People are wanting a superstar, goal scorer but then they want to give up either a 30 goal scorer last year or a huge prospect for us. I am starting to think anyone the Blues are rumored to be in trade talks with everyone just wants us to get them whether it makes sense or not. I understand we just can't find a goalie for shit, but I am also not sure this is the right trade for the Blues to be making, especially this season.

And Schneider is more unproven in the NHL than Berglund, at least Berglund put up 20 goals last season. Yeah, Schneider is awesome in the AHL and I am pretty sure Berglund would do pretty good down there too, maybe not with his current confidence level.


Honestly, I think trading for a guy like Schneider would help getting a scorer. Schneider is an RFA, but he will only command about $1MM next year having never been a starter in the NHL. Conklin only makes $1.1MM/yr. Strickland has been reporting that Mason has been asking for $4+MM/yr for an extension. If we can solidify our goaltending situation for cheap (until Schneider is a UFA in a couple seasons), that would give us more cap room to go out and get a UFA scorer.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby DaDitka » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:35 am

We need Backes, he will eventually have the C.

That said, Bergie's ceiling may be higher than any of the kids and he's still only 21 and I wouldn't give up on him at this point.

Besides, if you feel the organization was wrong when they said Bergie was a 'can't miss', why do you trust them when they say Schneider is a 'can't miss'?

I agree that goaltending is not our problem right now, but I don’t believe they will be bringing Mason back (unless he really stands on his head the rest of the season), so I have no problem with them looking towards the future considering I think we all agree Bishop is not going to be the guy. That said, our biggest weakness is, has , and will be goal scoring and while Bergie isn’t putting the puck in the net now, he has the ability and projects as a better goal scorer then Backes, Tj, and probably even Perron so that’s a tough pill to swallow.

Our depth is on the blueline throughout the organization and that is what we should be dealing form if we are looking to make a deal.


Not that they would take him, but I'd much rather deal a guy like Boyes. He's has to be the laziest player on our roster.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:45 am

DaDitka wrote:We need Backes, he will eventually have the C.


Why are you so sure he'll be back? He refused to sign a contract extension with us and tested restricted free agency where he signed an offer sheet with another team for more money. Don't you think he'll leave for more money after next season? The Blues can't keep him from leaving after next year.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby DaDitka » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:11 am

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
DaDitka wrote:We need Backes, he will eventually have the C.


Why are you so sure he'll be back? He refused to sign a contract extension with us and tested restricted free agency where he signed an offer sheet with another team for more money. Don't you think he'll leave for more money after next season? The Blues can't keep him from leaving after next year.



Because last year was an aberration in his goal production and after he proves that in two straight seasons his contract demands will become much more reasonable.

Furthermore, after listening to JD on Bernie’s show after the Murray firing I believe they will give Backes the C in the offseason and according to the kind of guy they say he is that will weigh heavily in his decision of whether or not to walk out on his team.

He would have had to be an idiot to sign an extension last offseason. I’m sure the Blues low balled him (as they should have trying to catch a deal) and he knew if he could repeat last season’s production he’d get paid handsomely, and if he did not he risked nothing and could probably get a quite similar deal anyways. You don’t see young guys in a hurry to jump into long term contracts simply for the security in case they are hurt in the future the way you do in football because there are just far less major injuries in hockey.

Often in football you can get a kid to sign a cheaper deal early just for the security. In hockey the kid simply isn’t risking much and it’s not as if David is making chump change right now.


And if you don't think you will get him signed at this time next year, trade him then.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:01 pm

There is a 0% chance Backes gets named captain next season if he doesn't sign a contract extension.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby section319 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:32 pm

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
section319 wrote:I like Backes, but I agree with JWATT completely. I also don't know why people are throwing out names like Berglund and Backes for this guy, goaltending isn't our problem right now it is scoring. People are wanting a superstar, goal scorer but then they want to give up either a 30 goal scorer last year or a huge prospect for us. I am starting to think anyone the Blues are rumored to be in trade talks with everyone just wants us to get them whether it makes sense or not. I understand we just can't find a goalie for shit, but I am also not sure this is the right trade for the Blues to be making, especially this season.

And Schneider is more unproven in the NHL than Berglund, at least Berglund put up 20 goals last season. Yeah, Schneider is awesome in the AHL and I am pretty sure Berglund would do pretty good down there too, maybe not with his current confidence level.


Honestly, I think trading for a guy like Schneider would help getting a scorer. Schneider is an RFA, but he will only command about $1MM next year having never been a starter in the NHL. Conklin only makes $1.1MM/yr. Strickland has been reporting that Mason has been asking for $4+MM/yr for an extension. If we can solidify our goaltending situation for cheap (until Schneider is a UFA in a couple seasons), that would give us more cap room to go out and get a UFA scorer.



That's a good point, I didn't really think about it that way. 4 mill coming off for Mason, 6 for Kariya and then whatever happens with Tkacuk, could definitely help out with a UFA this off season, if anyone worth it is available.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby philco_3 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:32 pm

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:There is a 0% chance Backes gets named captain next season if he doesn't sign a contract extension.


I with JWatt on this issuse. I would love nothing more than to see Backes named captain, but unless he resigns for a 4-5 year contract I don't for see it happening. Why give him the C for a few months, when it could go to someone who will stick around with the organization for years to come.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby DaDitka » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:28 pm

philco_3 wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:There is a 0% chance Backes gets named captain next season if he doesn't sign a contract extension.


I with JWatt on this issuse. I would love nothing more than to see Backes named captain, but unless he resigns for a 4-5 year contract I don't for see it happening. Why give him the C for a few months, when it could go to someone who will stick around with the organization for years to come.



Agreed, I think the ywould only make the move if they believed he would stay.

I just know they've talked about him having the C and JD admitted to it.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby Prison Bull » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:19 am

The Canucks aren't interested in any defense men. The only player Vancouver is talking about is:

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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby SteveO » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:29 pm

DaDitka wrote:I just know they've talked about him having the C and JD admitted to it.


I thought he said on 101 that there was no way they'd give it to him at this point?

I swore someone quoted it... maybe it was in a recap over at the Asylum.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby DaDitka » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:56 pm

Prngr44 wrote:
DaDitka wrote:I just know they've talked about him having the C and JD admitted to it.


I thought he said on 101 that there was no way they'd give it to him at this point?

I swore someone quoted it... maybe it was in a recap over at the Asylum.




He stated that they had talked about it and yes, they thought it was too much for him at the time (last offseason) but that he would be a great candidate as a future Caption. Of course much of it could be contingent on dealing Brewer because it’s always tough to take the C away from one player and give it to another (unless Brewer isn’t that comfortable with it to begin with)
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby glen a richter » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:14 pm

DaDitka wrote:
Prngr44 wrote:
DaDitka wrote:I just know they've talked about him having the C and JD admitted to it.


I thought he said on 101 that there was no way they'd give it to him at this point?

I swore someone quoted it... maybe it was in a recap over at the Asylum.




He stated that they had talked about it and yes, they thought it was too much for him at the time (last offseason) but that he would be a great candidate as a future Caption. Of course much of it could be contingent on dealing Brewer because it’s always tough to take the C away from one player and give it to another (unless Brewer isn’t that comfortable with it to begin with)


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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby DaDitka » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:27 pm

glen a richter wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
Prngr44 wrote:
DaDitka wrote:I just know they've talked about him having the C and JD admitted to it.


I thought he said on 101 that there was no way they'd give it to him at this point?

I swore someone quoted it... maybe it was in a recap over at the Asylum.




He stated that they had talked about it and yes, they thought it was too much for him at the time (last offseason) but that he would be a great candidate as a future Caption. Of course much of it could be contingent on dealing Brewer because it’s always tough to take the C away from one player and give it to another (unless Brewer isn’t that comfortable with it to begin with)


Every young hockey player dreams of one day being a Caption.


And why wouldn't they? :facepalm:

I guess they'd get the little 'caption' bubble on their chest instead of a C.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:00 am

I wouldn't trade Backes for what's being offered... an AHL goalie.

The team just doesn't look sharp when he's not in the lineup. He's a very physical player with respectable hands. No, he's not a top line winger, but he reminds a great deal of the role Dallas Drake (with better hands) played on this team when he first arrived - a one man wrecking crew that chips in a goal here and there while clearing space for his line mates.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby ProngerBlues44 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:22 pm

Schneider is a helluva goalie (from what I've heard and read), but I don't know if trading away Backes straight up would be smart. If we could package Backes and like Sydor for Schneider and Michael Grabner or Jordan Schroeder, that would be something worth considering. I just doubt that Vancouver would go for something like that.

I don't want to trade a proven NHL player for a NHL-hopeful.
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Re: Cory Schneider???

Postby Prison Bull » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:50 pm

ProngerBlues44 wrote:Schneider is a helluva goalie (from what I've heard and read), but I don't know if trading away Backes straight up would be smart. If we could package Backes and like Sydor for Schneider and Michael Grabner or Jordan Schroeder, that would be something worth considering. I just doubt that Vancouver would go for something like that.

I don't want to trade a proven NHL player for a NHL-hopeful.


Like I said, Vancouver doesn't need any D-men. Bieksa/Mitchell/Salo should be available for the playoffs and the three fill-ins Lukowich/Rome/Baumgartner have been solid with very few mistakes. The team is rolling with what they have now. Schneider packaged with Schroeder/Hansen/Shirokov/Rodin/or pick(s) for Backes should be realistic. The Blues aren't likely getting to the playoffs this year and inexpensive players freeing up cap space would certainly help your team. I don't think Grabner gets added to any deal without Vancouver wanting more.

Schneider is an excellent goalie. In following him he appears to take half a season to adjust to the league then catches fire. He was the AHL Goalie of the year last year and is having a solid season this year. If it were not for Luongo, he would certainly would have been playing on the Canucks last year and would have likely been our starter this year. His cap hit of 1.084M and substantial lack of playing time behind Luongo is why he is playing in the AHL.
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