What do you think about Afinogenov?

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What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby vinnieblues » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:13 pm

Just curious on why we havent tried for him.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby richtedm » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:26 pm

Because Afinogenov is like a box of chocolates.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:38 pm

richtedm wrote:Because Afinogenov is like a box of chocolates.


:lol: :lol: :plusplus:
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:09 am

Yeah, talk about inconsistent...

But you know, the consistently good guys are always "out of our price range".

When we have an important spot to fill, these are usually our options:

- Sign an over the hill guy hoping he has another year or two in him.
- Sign a value player and hope he plays over his head.
- Tell our current guys, "you just have to play better".
- Bring up a youngster and hope he can contribute.
- Put a package together and make a trade for someone.

Unless we were resigning one of our own players, we have NEVER, EVER signed an expensive big name free agent stud in his prime, coming from another team...NEVER.
Paul Kariya was our biggest free agent signing ever...and he was over the hill and we vastly overpaid.

Blues fans should be hella pissed that we have never, not once, signed a big name free agent in his prime.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby Winning Unlimited » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:40 am

Our time is coming. :letsgoblues:
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby JCShutout » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:36 am

cprice12 wrote:Yeah, talk about inconsistent...

But you know, the consistently good guys are always "out of our price range".

When we have an important spot to fill, these are usually our options:

- Sign an over the hill guy hoping he has another year or two in him.
- Sign a value player and hope he plays over his head.
- Tell our current guys, "you just have to play better".
- Bring up a youngster and hope he can contribute.
- Put a package together and make a trade for someone.

Unless we were resigning one of our own players, we have NEVER, EVER signed an expensive big name free agent stud in his prime, coming from another team...NEVER.
Paul Kariya was our biggest free agent signing ever...and he was over the hill and we vastly overpaid.

Blues fans should be hella pissed that we have never, not once, signed a big name free agent in his prime.


Hey now, Dallas Drake, Sean Hill, Scott Young, Rich Pilon... wait...
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby Leedog » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:40 am

Scott Stevens? Shanahan? Nedved (was supposed to be)? Courtnall?
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby bluesfan115 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:46 am

cprice12 wrote:Yeah, talk about inconsistent...

But you know, the consistently good guys are always "out of our price range".

When we have an important spot to fill, these are usually our options:

- Sign an over the hill guy hoping he has another year or two in him.
- Sign a value player and hope he plays over his head.
- Tell our current guys, "you just have to play better".
- Bring up a youngster and hope he can contribute.
- Put a package together and make a trade for someone.

Unless we were resigning one of our own players, we have NEVER, EVER signed an expensive big name free agent stud in his prime, coming from another team...NEVER.
Paul Kariya was our biggest free agent signing ever...and he was over the hill and we vastly overpaid.

Blues fans should be hella pissed that we have never, not once, signed a big name free agent in his prime.


Uh, Keith Tkachuk and Doug Weight, were signed by the Blues, as the top UFA's in their class in 2000/2001, and 2001/2002 repectively...both were under 30, and both were captains at their former teams...
The Problem , as I see it ,with gaining a big name UFA is that they have to be able to play your team's style of play, which we haven't really found yet...You can spend all the money in the world, and bring in guys like Kovulchuk, only to see that money wasted, because he doesn't play into the team's strengths. Armstrong inferred as much earlier this week, when he said that although Kovulchuk is a tremendous player, he doesn't fit into our plans.

I think that what is happening with the organization right now, can/will reap tremendous benefits for all us fans in the future.

1) The organization has has shored up the goalie position for the forseeable future, with the signing of Halak

2) Our defense is going to be something special with Johnson and Petro back there.

3) Our offense , with the likes of Amac, Boyes, Perron, Bergy, Oshie, and Steen, is actually a pretty stellar top 6...

4) I honestly believe that a whole year with Payne, will pay dividens with our transition game, and will ultimately result in a huge amount of goals this year..

I may be drinking blues Koolaid, but damn it tastes so good

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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby Leedog » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:53 am

Both Tkachuk and Weight were acquired via trade for a significant amount of the teams assets, then given UFA money to keep them. The equal (almost) of giving up Perron, Berglund, Oshie and Cole for Spezza and Semin, and paying them Kovalchuk money to keep them.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby BSNoseblunt » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:56 am

bluesfan115 wrote:
3) Our offense , with the likes of Amac, Boyes, Perron, Bergy, Oshie, and Steen, is actually a pretty stellar top 6...



In comparison to a Brentwood men's league team?

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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby DaDitka » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:00 am

BSNoseblunt wrote:
bluesfan115 wrote:
3) Our offense , with the likes of Amac, Boyes, Perron, Bergy, Oshie, and Steen, is actually a pretty stellar top 6...



In comparison to a Brentwood men's league team?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:15 am

Leedog wrote:Scott Stevens? Shanahan? Nedved (was supposed to be)? Courtnall?

I was referring to UFA's.
Stevens, Shanahan, Nedved were all RFA's and by signing them they ultimately cost us a total of 7 first round draft picks (five to Washington for signing Stevens to an offer sheet and two to New Jersey for tampering with Stevens), Craig Janney (for signing Nedved) and Scott Stevens (for signing Shanny).
Was Nedved an "elite" player? Eh. Maybe for a year or two after he left St. Louis...but he's not really the type of player I'm talking about.
And I don't consider Courtnall an "elite" player either. He was a great grinder who could score some goals (valuable asset), but he wasn't really "elite" either.

But even if you do consider Courtnall as being elite...that's the best we've ever done UFA-wise? No offense against Courts, but that's weak.

Blues fans should demand better.
The biggest names that have come through town have almost exclusively been through trades or RFA signings, which have cost us dearly in players/picks/assets.

If you sign an UFA, it doesn't cost anything except money, so you're not thinning the talent in the organization.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:26 am

bluesfan115 wrote:
cprice12 wrote:Yeah, talk about inconsistent...

But you know, the consistently good guys are always "out of our price range".

When we have an important spot to fill, these are usually our options:

- Sign an over the hill guy hoping he has another year or two in him.
- Sign a value player and hope he plays over his head.
- Tell our current guys, "you just have to play better".
- Bring up a youngster and hope he can contribute.
- Put a package together and make a trade for someone.

Unless we were resigning one of our own players, we have NEVER, EVER signed an expensive big name free agent stud in his prime, coming from another team...NEVER.
Paul Kariya was our biggest free agent signing ever...and he was over the hill and we vastly overpaid.

Blues fans should be hella pissed that we have never, not once, signed a big name free agent in his prime.


Uh, Keith Tkachuk and Doug Weight, were signed by the Blues, as the top UFA's in their class in 2000/2001, and 2001/2002 repectively...both were under 30, and both were captains at their former teams...
The Problem , as I see it ,with gaining a big name UFA is that they have to be able to play your team's style of play, which we haven't really found yet...You can spend all the money in the world, and bring in guys like Kovulchuk, only to see that money wasted, because he doesn't play into the team's strengths. Armstrong inferred as much earlier this week, when he said that although Kovulchuk is a tremendous player, he doesn't fit into our plans.


Uh, Weight and Tkachuk were acquired via trades. I'm not talking about us re-signing our own UFA's...I'm talking about going out and getting someone else's UFA's. Not only would be be making our team much better without losing any assets, but we'd be taking a top asset from a team we are competing against.

We've never done that, and that's a big reason why we've never been able to get over the hump.

Unless we get extremely lucky through the draft or in a lopsided trade or two, we will eventually need to sign someone else's elite UFA if we want to win a cup and remain good for a number of years.

Saying Kovalchuk doesn't fit into our plans, is a bland way of saying "we don't want to pay that much money".
So when exactly will a young 40 goal scorer fit into our plans? It's the one glaring need on the team that we desperately need. We don't have an elite scorer...one was available...we said no thanks.
Sorry, but that's a big fat....FAIL. You've got to at least make him a fair offer.
With the young talent we have on this team, Kovalchuk would have fit in great.

I bleed blue, do you>>??


This is a dumb question. :lol:
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:28 am

Leedog wrote:Scott Stevens? Shanahan? Nedved (was supposed to be)? Courtnall?


Ohh Scott Stevens :facepalm:
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby strocklen083 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:39 am

cprice12 wrote:If you sign an UFA, it doesn't cost anything except money

Something this organization doesn't have a whole lot of right now. At least in terms of discretionary spending. They're spending to keep their own FA players. But beyond that, there isn't a whole lot of jack to go around for the time being. Hopefully once Checketts finds his new 75% investor, they'll plug some cash into the payroll budget. But as much as we'd like to go out and spend on high prices UFAs, the reality is we don't have the resources to do so.

2-3 years from now? I hope so. But for right now, you'll just have to hold steady with what you got.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby Leedog » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:48 am

Hopefully this Mason thing sinks home for the Blues. For years, they have been over-evaluating their own assets to keep them for walking. They were willing to give him about double what he was able to get on the open market.
And, Curt, you are preaching to the choir, here. I have long critized Lar for spending assets and UFA $$ for DW and KT. You didn't specify UFA, and the Stevens, Shanahan, and Nedved deals were news making, sexy signings. Misguided, but news making and sexy.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:15 am

Leedog wrote:Hopefully this Mason thing sinks home for the Blues. For years, they have been over-evaluating their own assets to keep them for walking. They were willing to give him about double what he was able to get on the open market.
And, Curt, you are preaching to the choir, here. I have long critized Lar for spending assets and UFA $$ for DW and KT. You didn't specify UFA, and the Stevens, Shanahan, and Nedved deals were news making, sexy signings. Misguided, but news making and sexy.


I'm not against signing RFA's or making trades, but every once in a while you need to sign an elite UFA.
Considering we've NEVER done it, is frustrating to say the least.

I understand the money situations now and how it's not in the budget...I can live with that for a while.
But back in the day when we were spending a LOT of money and had a top 5 payroll in the league...to not sign a single elite UFA is embarrassing. Had we signed just one, it may have been enough to keep a few more assets and add that elite player, and maybe have won a cup.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby strocklen083 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:19 am

Leedog wrote:the Stevens, Shanahan, and Nedved deals were news making, sexy signings. Misguided, but news making and sexy.

They weren't what I would classify as "misguided". The whole free agent system adopted by the league at the time was ass backwards right down to the compensation judgements. The ONLY reason we lost so many draft picks was because the league wanted to make an example out of us in order to keep salaries down and keep player's rights restrained.

We were one of the few teams out there spending money. Unfortunately it just wasn't during the right era. Now I realize all signings were RFAs and the brass at the time knew it was going to cost them something. But for Christ's sake, could you blame them for wanting to sign (or re-sign) a guy who WANTED to be here? It was just a shitty set of circumstances that ended up handcuffing the team for a decade, unjustifiably. But you can't say Shanahan, Quinn, Caron, and Co didn't try!
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby kodos » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:29 am

Paul Kariya was a big name UFA signing and it was only a few years ago.

Yeah, he was a little past his prime, and it didn't work out well... but he was a big name free agent signing. It doesn't NEVER happen.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby ProngerBlues44 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:59 am

bluesfan115 wrote:2) Our defense is going to be something special with Johnson and Petro back there.


I'm just going to call it right now from what I am seeing from this organization: we will never see Pietrangelo as a full-time Blue.

We will keep him off the main active roster and he will demand a trade. For whatever reason, management has a huge boner for our current defense.
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