What do you think about Afinogenov?

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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:31 pm

ProngerBlues44 wrote:
bluesfan115 wrote:2) Our defense is going to be something special with Johnson and Petro back there.


I'm just going to call it right now from what I am seeing from this organization: we will never see Pietrangelo as a full-time Blue.

We will keep him off the main active roster and he will demand a trade. For whatever reason, management has a huge boner for our current defense.


This.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby DaDitka » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:41 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
ProngerBlues44 wrote:
bluesfan115 wrote:2) Our defense is going to be something special with Johnson and Petro back there.


I'm just going to call it right now from what I am seeing from this organization: we will never see Pietrangelo as a full-time Blue.

We will keep him off the main active roster and he will demand a trade. For whatever reason, management has a huge boner for our current defense.


This.



I question a lot of what this organization does with its kids and it existing defense, but Pietrangelo should not have been up here before now and if he hasn't gotten infinity better defensively in the offseason, he still doesn't belong here. Many like to talk about all the points he racked up at the world juniors, but no one talks about the fact that he was benched at one point even though his team was already short a defenseman because he was regularly getting walked around by 17 year old kids.

It's not a matter of how much someone like Brewer/Jackman or how highly the organization has tauted Pietrangelo, it's a matter of whether or not he's ready to play at this level. Clearly, up until this point, he has not been ready.

Many will say "Well, he couldn't be any worse" and they may very well be right, but is that the best way for him to get better? I don't know, but it is a valid question.

Personally, the kid I saw last year was a long - long - long way from playing defense in the NHL.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:30 pm

kodos wrote:Paul Kariya was a big name UFA signing and it was only a few years ago.

Yeah, he was a little past his prime, and it didn't work out well... but he was a big name free agent signing. It doesn't NEVER happen.


What I said was, an elite UFA in his prime.
Kariya was no longer "elite" and was well past his prime.
Yes, everyone was excited about it because of his name.
His numbers with us were the worst of his career. We missed out on Kariya in his prime by a few years.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby ProngerBlues44 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:48 pm

DaDitka wrote:I question a lot of what this organization does with its kids and it existing defense, but Pietrangelo should not have been up here before now and if he hasn't gotten infinity better defensively in the offseason, he still doesn't belong here. Many like to talk about all the points he racked up at the world juniors, but no one talks about the fact that he was benched at one point even though his team was already short a defenseman because he was regularly getting walked around by 17 year old kids.

It's not a matter of how much someone like Brewer/Jackman or how highly the organization has tauted Pietrangelo, it's a matter of whether or not he's ready to play at this level. Clearly, up until this point, he has not been ready.

Many will say "Well, he couldn't be any worse" and they may very well be right, but is that the best way for him to get better? I don't know, but it is a valid question.

Personally, the kid I saw last year was a long - long - long way from playing defense in the NHL.


Well what I saw from Petro was his ability to play 100x better than Darryl Sydor. I would rather take a chance on a kid than have that old hack in the lineup half the season.

I don't even want to hear about Sydor's "experience." All we hear from the organization is how Sydor, Jackman, Brewer, etc. have the experience we need to contend. They take this into account way too much. Petro can skate circles around these guys and would also be gaining the experience he needs to be considered an experienced player. How else will this kid mold into a NHL defenseman? Sitting in the press box and playing 15 years of Juniors isn't going to make him any better.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:49 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
ProngerBlues44 wrote:
bluesfan115 wrote:2) Our defense is going to be something special with Johnson and Petro back there.


I'm just going to call it right now from what I am seeing from this organization: we will never see Pietrangelo as a full-time Blue.

We will keep him off the main active roster and he will demand a trade. For whatever reason, management has a huge boner for our current defense.


This.


To be fair to current management...Petro has shown no signs of being anywhere close to being ready for the NHL.
Did you watch the World Junior Championship? He was horrible defensively against 17 year olds.
He's got a long way to go yet.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:51 pm

ProngerBlues44 wrote:
DaDitka wrote:I question a lot of what this organization does with its kids and it existing defense, but Pietrangelo should not have been up here before now and if he hasn't gotten infinity better defensively in the offseason, he still doesn't belong here. Many like to talk about all the points he racked up at the world juniors, but no one talks about the fact that he was benched at one point even though his team was already short a defenseman because he was regularly getting walked around by 17 year old kids.

It's not a matter of how much someone like Brewer/Jackman or how highly the organization has tauted Pietrangelo, it's a matter of whether or not he's ready to play at this level. Clearly, up until this point, he has not been ready.

Many will say "Well, he couldn't be any worse" and they may very well be right, but is that the best way for him to get better? I don't know, but it is a valid question.

Personally, the kid I saw last year was a long - long - long way from playing defense in the NHL.


Well what I saw from Petro was his ability to play 100x better than Darryl Sydor. I would rather take a chance on a kid than have that old hack in the lineup half the season.

I don't even want to hear about Sydor's "experience." All we hear from the organization is how Sydor, Jackman, Brewer, etc. have the experience we need to contend. They take this into account way too much. Petro can skate circles around these guys and would also be gaining the experience he needs to be considered an experienced player. How else will this kid mold into a NHL defenseman? Sitting in the press box and playing 15 years of Juniors isn't going to make him any better.


Petro is only 20 years old. Give the kid a break.
He's just not ready yet.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby DaDitka » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:59 pm

cprice12 wrote:He's just not ready yet.

:plusplus:
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby ProngerBlues44 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:24 pm

DaDitka wrote:
cprice12 wrote:He's just not ready yet.

:plusplus:


That's where we differ. I think he looks like a young defenseman who has had some slip-ups. I saw a lot of games played by Zach Bogosian on an internet feed when he was young and I'll tell ya, he was slow-footed and was walked all the time. Now he's pretty much the top-guy in Atlanta.

But in case you are right, let's relive another defenseman we all know that "wasn't ready."

This kid came into the league after being drafted very high, but the Hartford Whalers were not expecting him to make the lineup right away; the kid seemed to have anger issues and did not answer well to authority. They brought him in the next season anyway, due to a weak defense. He played his first season brilliantly for a young defenseman; 30 points and only a -3. But he still faced troubles and was traded, due to bar fights and so on. He comes to St. Louis and is hated instantly; fans are booing him. Head Coach Mike Keenan even asks him, "Do you know what I traded for you?" and benches him. The kid picks himself up, earns captaincy a few short seasons later and is now pretty much a slam dunk HOFer.

My point being, Pronger was not supposed to make the jump to the NHL instantly. But he was put in two different rough situations, persevered and has become a great player, partly because of it.

I would be willing to say that Pietrangelo could come through the same adversity and be a strong d-man. I'm not saying to throw him in against the top pairings in the league; let him play with Carlo and go about 14-15 min. a game. I'll state my point again from earlier; what purpose is Sydor or Brewer serving that Petro can't?
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby glen a richter » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:00 pm

What about Cole? Is he anywhere near ahead of Petro in terms of development?
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby DaDitka » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:53 am

ProngerBlues44 wrote:
I would be willing to say that Pietrangelo could come through the same adversity and be a strong d-man. I'm not saying to throw him in against the top pairings in the league; let him play with Carlo and go about 14-15 min. a game. I'll state my point again from earlier; what purpose is Sydor or Brewer serving that Petro can't?


If Petro has a strong mental make-up you're dead right.

That's one thing we don't know. Is he mentally capable of the handling the struggles that come along with learning these lessons at this level. There are tons of stories for all sports of kids becoming even better players because of how these experiences hardened them. There are just as many stories of players being ruined forever because their confidence never recovers. I don't pretend to have any idea of this kids mental make-up. I just want the team to make a decision and stick with it. He's either good enough (and mentally ready) to play up here or he's not. The one thing when can all agree on is he's not going to get any better watching 3 out of every 4 games from the box.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby ProngerBlues44 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:50 am

The real question in this thread is: What does Aode think of this off-season?
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:56 am

ProngerBlues44 wrote:The real question in this thread is: What does Aode think of this off-season?


He's just agreeing with everybody :P
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby Krigloch the Furious » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:33 pm

agreed. I dont see Brewer or Jackman going anywhere. It's like being kicked in the nuts by Ryu and Ken.
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Re: What do you think about Afinogenov?

Postby Winning Unlimited » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:12 am

Krigloch the Furious wrote:agreed. I dont see Brewer or Jackman going anywhere. It's like being kicked in the nuts by Ryu and Ken.

with skates on? during the tornado whirlwind kick?
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