Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

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Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by dmiles2186 »

So all this talk about a possible scorer, defenseman, or playmaker might be moot.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/p ... b0bfa.html
Stuck in a wait-and-see mode regarding the return of several players from injuries and awaiting increased production from a few of the club's core forwards, Blues general manager Doug Armstrong vows he will be patient and perhaps make no moves leading up to the NHL trading deadline Feb. 27.

Part of that philosophy is predicated on the Blues' restrictive budget as the franchise navigates through a tumultuous ownership change. Another part of it is Armstrong's belief that replacing players who are having off years offensively might not necessarily lead to a finer finish.

The Blues are living healthy in fourth place in the Western Conference going into tonight's game in New Jersey, and despite their scoring issues, the GM says they have the makeup to be a quality club heading down the stretch.

"Our goal is to get healthy and see where we fit in," Armstrong said. "Obviously our team needs to play to the level that they're capable of playing. There are a number of players on our roster that aren't having the season that they had a year ago. But I think it's too easy for everyone involved to look for someone else to come in and fix the problem, when I think the answer is right down there (on the ice). And I'm very comfortable that they think the answer is right down there too. We need players that we know can produce offense to produce offense.

"We started the year saying that we need to find out about these players. Well, there's no better time to find out about a player than a drive into the playoffs. To bring in other players and put guys we want to find out about in different roles, then we're just pushing off the process. The season is going to end the way it's going to end. There's no guarantee that you bring in a player, and all of a sudden you're going to become the high-scoring Detroit Red Wings. Those players aren't out there. We need to see what these players can do when the game is on the line."

The Blues remain hopeful that Andy McDonald and Alex Steen — both recovering from concussions — can rejoin the lineup down the stretch, but neither traveled with the team on its three-game road trip. McDonald appears to be inching closer, but Steen's progress a month after leaving the lineup appears halted. And now the Blues are without Jason Arnott (shoulder) and possibly Matt D'Agostini (concussion symptoms).

Armstrong insists he's not relying on the return of McDonald and Steen — the Blues could be waiting "until the summer" for them, the GM said. Nor is he feeling the pressure to make a move before the deadline in anticipation of filling their key spots in the lineup.

"I think the cart got in front of the horse," Armstrong said. "When we're talking about concussions, I've always tried to tell everybody it's not a day-to-day topic, and unfortunately it became a day-to-day topic with our coach and the media. We've stopped that now.

"You're always looking to see if you can improve your team. But I like this group and I like the depth that we have here. We'll keep our ears open as we get closer to the deadline. But we're like two-thirds of the NHL, we work under a business framework and whatever deals we make have to fit into that plan."

The Blues' payroll entering the season reached $52 million and it's believed the Blues are near their budget ceiling approaching the trading deadline. A transferring of the ownership to the group led by club minority owner Tom Stillman could infuse immediate resources into the organization, but the sale is not expected to be complete until March. Armstrong declined to answer how much flexibility he would have at the deadline under the current ownership, saying, "I'm not going to discuss the internal structure of the Blues. We work under a budget."

He then added, "The ownership has been strong. They increased our budget by 10 percent to start the season. That's helped. That let us bring in the depth of a (Jamie) Langenbrunner, a (Jason) Arnott, (Kent) Huskins, (Scott) Nichol. So, I think ownership has been strong and we understand where we sit."

Trade talks around the NHL have been quiet. However, Armstrong said the league's buyers have been 'starting to give the indications of what they're looking for but some of the sellers aren't there yet. I don't think anyone is at the point yet where they want to start moving players."

A club that is perhaps neither a buyer nor a seller, the Blues aren't ready to part with their forwards who are on pace for diminished offensive numbers. Chris Stewart, who had 28 goals and 25 assists in 2010-11, is on track for 16 goals and 16 assists this season. Patrik Berglund, who had 22 goals and 30 assists last season, is heading for 18 goals and 14 assists. Matt D'Agostini is 18 points off his clip from a year ago and Vladimir Sobotka is also behind last season's pace.

"You can't every time a player has a bad stretch, move them and think that's going to solve your problems because sometimes good players have bad years," Armstrong said. "To become a team, you have to go through the good and the bad times with players to gain their trust … and that's how they gain their teammates' trust, working through these things.

"I've never been a big proponent of a lot of change. If you see something that needs to be addressed, you address it. But … take Jaro (Halak) for example. At the start of the year, there was an outcry about Jaro. Well, he then ripped off (a stretch of 11-0-3). This isn't (the video game) NHL EA Sports where you just move guys back and forth and a week later you say, 'I'll take that trade back now.' You have to be patient and you have to give players the opportunity to work through tough times."

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/p ... z1ltM9Xf00
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by ibldbl »

With this news and the injuries racking up, we may see more Rivermen here in the near future. :(
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by kodos »

Two things...

1.) They will say this regardless of their intentions. They want to bargain from a position of strength.

2.) They probably should not make a big trade, unless something amazing falls in their lap.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by DaDitka »

Chris Stewart, who had 28 goals and 25 assists in 2010-11, is on track for 16 goals and 16 assists this season. Patrik Berglund, who had 22 goals and 30 assists last season, is heading for 18 goals and 14 assists. Matt D'Agostini is 18 points off his clip from a year ago and Vladimir Sobotka is also behind last season's pace.
This further points to my belief that much of the reduced scoring is a result of the new system and defensive responsibility as much it is personnel. For the most part this is the same team that finished 10th in scoring last year.

Three of the four named above have been some of our hardest working players on the team and Stewie has picked up his effort of late as well.

I do think the lack of a play maker like McD is hindering us somewhat, but I think it's more a product of the system as it is the personnel.

Another thing I'd like to see a too is for the guys to slow it down a little. Look at Oshie, he's playing all out.....out of control.....I love how hard he's playing, but his aggression is leading to a lot of turnovers and a lot of time on his azz. I've seen a lot of us going for long outlet passes as well that we're not connecting on.

What where not seeing is sustained offensive attacks with positioning. What we are seeing is a bunch of wingers coming down the boards taking poor angle shots creating juicy rebounds that no one is home to bury. The only time our shots from the point seem to be making it through traffic is when there is a three foot alley and the goalie has a good look at it.

To me...and again, this is not a trained eye....our forwards appear too concerned with getting the line change and/or getting back for their defensive responsibilities to set up shop in the offensive end and sustain pressure. The Blues do lead all teams in shortest average shift time (at least that's what they said last week) and I think that does help make my argument somewhat.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by Carl Racki »

The system does play into the lack of scoring to a degree...as does the positioning on the ice. How many Blues centering passes end up traveling all the way to the blue line or the sideboards because they seemingly never have anyone in the slot? I don't know if that is the players' lack of offensive ability or the system, but it is irritating to the point of distraction.

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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by glen a richter »

Translation: Sorry, Blues fans... we're not interested in winning the cup this year.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by cprice12 »

Getting McDonald and Steen back will help quite a bit...
I can buy that angle.

The ownership issue not allowing an increase in payroll to help the offense...
I can buy that angle as well.

However...
Saying that "so and so is just going to have to play better"...
Nope, that isn't what fans want to hear.
The organization has said been saying that for a long time near the trade deadline...and personally, I'm sick of it.

When Steen was healthy earlier this year, it was obvious we still needed help on offense.
When McDonald was healthy last year, it was obvious we still needed help on offense.

Stewart was supposed to be the guy to help...that hasn't been the case.
Berglund was supposed to break out this year...that hasn't been the case.
So something else needs to be tried to increase scoring and not waste this season and the stellar goaltending we are getting.

I'll be very disappointed if they don't at least try to improve the offense with something other than guys coming back from injury.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by DaDitka »

cprice12 wrote: I'll be very disappointed if they don't at least try to improve the offense with something other than guys coming back from injury.
JD was just on with Bernie and made no bones about it....they will not make a move because of the budget unless "someone comes in like it's Christmas and throws a bunch of money in our lap".

That tells me that they do want to make a move. That tells me that they do think there are positions that we can up grade. That also tells me they are not going to do anything about it.

That said, part of me thinks we could actually do better....by subtraction.......if you simply take Oshie, DP, and Russell off the powerplay we may actually get some sustained pressure. No knock to TJs effort or DPs skill.....but they are over-complicating things and it's leading to a lot of turnovers. Russell simply is incapable of keeping the puck in.

With the kind of defense we are playing and the goaltending we are getting, I think we can get by on our 5 on 5 scoring. What we HAVE to fix is our powerplay.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by kodos »

Adding a 20 goal guy to this team won't really be a big deal. We already have a ton of those guys... (Backes, Oshie, Steen, McDonald, Perron, Stewart, Berglund, D'Agostini and maybe Arnott). What difference is one more going to make? Who do you get rid of to add him?

Unless you add a Parise or Getzlaf or something I don't see the point.

If you can flip two of them out for one star level player, then maybe, but that is expensive, and the team is broke and going through an ownership transition.

This team isn't to the level yet of flipping out good prospects and picks for short term help. They need to keep looking more long term. For no anyway.

I don't think this is the time to make a big move.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by illownyou »

Thank you, Kudos, for saying something that makes sense.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by theohall »

Blues are not the only team with a scoring problem. Tuesday night, the Atlantic division played. They scored three goals combined, yet earned 6 points. Systems and improved goaltending are here to stay and are a huge reason for decreased scoring. Just look at what the Blues do to must of their opponents. Short shifts, rolling 5 man units, 5 man defensive system, with excellent goaltending. Decreased scoring against. It also, however, will impact the offense, which primarily looks for odd man breaks and rebound opportunities.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by illownyou »

Not only that Theo, but what is also a contributor is that 'scoring forward' doesn't mean what it used to...

these days an elite scoring forward averages 35 goals per season. He'll score 45 goals, then 32, then 36, and so on. In addition, ad nauseum, these players are often not available for obvious reasons.

Furthermore, most of our players are still young...some are having decent years, some are still struggling to find some consistensy. That's OK, too.

Unless something surprises Armstrong and he can't pass it up, AND it makes sense, don't have any expectations for D-day.

It's just not happening this year, because it shouldn't.

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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by kodos »

No, an elite goal scorer is more like a guy who scores 40 for two years, gets a massive contract and then goes on to score in the low 30s for a few years before falling off.

I remember a time when you had to score 50 to be considered a real goal scorer. You would see a dozen guys hit 50 every year.

30 is the new 50. Crazy but true. The game is just different now.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by dmiles2186 »

I like the fact that the Blues have a gaggle of 20 to 30 goal scorers. There is a depth on this Blues that not many teams have. Anytime you rely on one or two guys or one line for scoring, you are bound to get burned by slumps and/or injuries. We've seen with all of these injuries that the Blues are still winning games. So what if our leading goal scorer only has 16 (or whatever it is)? The Blues are near the top of the Western Conference. That's the important thing.

I'm okay with the Blues not making a deal. If they were to upgrade on D, I'd be okay with that, but the D has been the steady spot so far this year. This team has the framework of a team that can last awhile. They don't have any stupid contracts, a lot of youth coming into their prime, a bona fide captain, and a solid goaltending tandem.

Now, if the Blues pull off another steal like they did in getting Shattenkirk and Stewart? Be my guest. But those don't come along every day.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by AlsWoodenStick »

DaDitka wrote:
cprice12 wrote: I'll be very disappointed if they don't at least try to improve the offense with something other than guys coming back from injury.
JD was just on with Bernie and made no bones about it....they will not make a move because of the budget unless "someone comes in like it's Christmas and throws a bunch of money in our lap".

That tells me that they do want to make a move. That tells me that they do think there are positions that we can up grade. That also tells me they are not going to do anything about it.

That said, part of me thinks we could actually do better....by subtraction.......if you simply take Oshie, DP, and Russell off the powerplay we may actually get some sustained pressure. No knock to TJs effort or DPs skill.....but they are over-complicating things and it's leading to a lot of turnovers. Russell simply is incapable of keeping the puck in.

With the kind of defense we are playing and the goaltending we are getting, I think we can get by on our 5 on 5 scoring. What we HAVE to fix is our powerplay.
Besides bashing players, any idea on how you would improve the PP instead of just saying that it's not working right now?
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by BSNoseblunt »

dmiles2186 wrote:I like the fact that the Blues have a gaggle of 20 to 30 goal scorers. There is a depth on this Blues that not many teams have. Anytime you rely on one or two guys or one line for scoring, you are bound to get burned by slumps and/or injuries. We've seen with all of these injuries that the Blues are still winning games. So what if our leading goal scorer only has 16 (or whatever it is)? The Blues are near the top of the Western Conference. That's the important thing.

I'm okay with the Blues not making a deal. If they were to upgrade on D, I'd be okay with that, but the D has been the steady spot so far this year. This team has the framework of a team that can last awhile. They don't have any stupid contracts, a lot of youth coming into their prime, a bona fide captain, and a solid goaltending tandem.

Now, if the Blues pull off another steal like they did in getting Shattenkirk and Stewart? Be my guest. But those don't come along every day.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by DaDitka »

AlsWoodenStick wrote:Besides bashing players, any idea on how you would improve the PP instead of just saying that it's not working right now?

That is not bashing players what so ever, and even JD said himself yesterday that Oshie is trying to do too much.

And excuse me if I think maintaining possession would help our powerplay. How many times this year have you seen our powerplay keep the puck in the offensive end for 40 seconds or more? Very - Very little. That is my point. Even when we manage to register three or four shots on a PP they are often each on individual trips into the zone.

I was not looking to bash any player...the fact of the matter is those three have surrendered the puck to the other team on the powerplay the most of late...that's all I'm saying.

When a goalie is having a hard time, what do you do? You yank him. He'll get another shot, he just doesn't have it at this point. That's what I'm suggesting with the other three.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by cprice12 »

I get that we have a lot of 20 goal type guys.
I get that scoring is down around the league.
I get that.
But I'll still be disappointed if we don't acquire a true scoring threat, aka a legit 30 goal guy.
We've struggled to score goals for the last few years...except last year we finished strong and ended up in the top 10 in goals scored.
I agree we don't need another 20 goal guy necessarily...unless he also puts up 70 assists.

I don't think we will trade for a 30 goal scorer, but I can still be disappointed if we don't get one.
The organization can spin it any way they like...but we need more offense than we have, even with Steen and Andy Mac back.
We're not just trying to make the playoffs...this team is one of the best in the league and an elite goal scorer could make us a legit cup contender against the likes of Detroit, Vancouver, etc.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by not_a_wings_fan »

I agree that the collection of 20 goal guys isn't going to cut it deep in the playoffs.

But, I think an elite, playmaking center might work as well to move a couple of our 20 goal guys into the 30-40 goal range.

Just something else to consider.

I agree with the group that says they don't think the blues are going to do much of anything at the trade deadline. It would have to be an amazing deal for them to jump because I am pretty sure they aren't looking to move talent out of their top 9, and idk what you give up to get a top line forward without doing that.
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Re: Blues Not Convinced They Need To Make Trades

Post by cardsfan04 »

I have mixed feelings on making a trade. We definitely could use something to spark our offense (whether it be a legit sniper or a playmaker). But, I think it's important to remember that we are just entering our window of opportunity. We're a very young team that should be very competitive for years to come. I would be very hesitant to make a trade that makes us better this year at the expense of the next few years.

Young guys that we can hopefully lock up to long term deals are who I would target if we make a trade. Otherwise, I don't want to give up much.
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