Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

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Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby Nyghtewynd » Sun May 06, 2012 3:52 pm

Let's get on with it.

Gone: Stewart, Dags, Nichol, Arnott, Cola.

Tough Call: Elliott, (might be a "sell high" opportunity); Jackman (looked completely done the entire series, wouldn't miss).

New owners: If you're not going to spend money on scoring, don't buy the team.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby gaijin » Sun May 06, 2012 4:02 pm

I think that's a little bit of an overreaction 5 minutes after they were eliminated. Re-evaluate some guys finishing out their contracts, sure, but there was no single goat in this series- the entire team had no hunger. That, combined with every deflected puck ending up on the stick of a Kings player in the offensive zone...

Keep Elliott. Dude is one of the reasons we made the playoffs at all. Both goalies seriously picked up the slack when the other one would hit a rough patch.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun May 06, 2012 4:06 pm

gaijin wrote:I think that's a little bit of an overreaction 5 minutes after they were eliminated. Re-evaluate some guys finishing out their contracts, sure, but there was no single goat in this series- the entire team had no hunger. That, combined with every deflected puck ending up on the stick of a Kings player in the offensive zone...

Keep Elliott. Dude is one of the reasons we made the playoffs at all. Both goalies seriously picked up the slack when the other one would hit a rough patch.


It wasn't just hunger, we were getting out-played. Bad turnovers that were capitalized on, completely unable to handle their 2-1-2 forecheck (at times almost looking like a 3-1-1) and we faced a red-hot goalie. No amount "effort" fixes those problems. It's playing smarter, not harder.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Sun May 06, 2012 4:28 pm

A lot of the forwards looked slow all series. Jackman looked way slow as well.

I would dump dags, stewart, and crombeen. I would also get rid of Jackman or put him way down the depth chart.

I would package one of oshie or perron for a scoring wing. They are nice parts, but we don't have two second lines so one of them needs to go.

We need a top line cause we ain't got one.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby Winning Unlimited » Sun May 06, 2012 4:45 pm

not_a_wings_fan wrote:I would package one of oshie or perron for a scoring wing.

Nyghtewynd wrote:Elliott, (might be a "sell high" opportunity);

Disagree with these two. No reason to give up on any of them after this season.

Players we could let go: Usual suspects of Arnott, Langebrunner, Nichol, Jackman.

Incoming young players: Tarasenko, Schwartz

The best free agent for us is Parise, and NJD will find a way to keep him.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby Nyghtewynd » Sun May 06, 2012 4:47 pm

There's a difference between "giving up on someone" and "getting overpaid for an one-season-flash-goalie-who-won't-be-the-starter".

I like Elliott, but he might be worth more as a couple of other players.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby goon attack » Sun May 06, 2012 6:08 pm

I say keep Stewart if you can find a way to make him play like he cares. Otherwise, jettison his ass.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Sun May 06, 2012 6:11 pm

Oshie has played 262 regular season games over four years and never scored more than 20 goals. He plays on the second line. He is what he is. This "kids" label is bullshit. He's moving into mid career here - and he disappeared in the playoffs.

Perron's numbers are almost identical in parts of 5 seasons. Again, not a "kid." These are veteran pros. Perron had a better year, scoring 20 in 57 games this season. He may have taken a step but needs better linemates to flourish. He may be the more valuable asset.

As far as "giving up" on them - I am clearly viewing them as an asset because I want to trade them in a package for a better player. When you look at this roster, we don't really have many assets we can trade because they either (a) suck/too old/broken or (b) are too necessary to the core of the team. I don't see TJ in either of those categories.

We need scoring - who would you put on the block for it? "Oh, if we given them nichol and arnott they will give us Malkin, I just know it."

Of course, knowing the blues, we will prolly keep oshie and just sign teh dug waitz.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby Nyghtewynd » Sun May 06, 2012 6:17 pm

I have a sneaking suspicion either Oshie or Perron is gone. I'm not sure which, but it just seems like something the Blues would do.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Sun May 06, 2012 6:19 pm

Nyghtewynd wrote:I have a sneaking suspicion either Oshie or Perron is gone. I'm not sure which, but it just seems like something the Blues would do.

Total agree. They are really the only chips we would bargain with that would return anything we actually need.

Sign and trade for Parise, anyone?
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby philco_3 » Sun May 06, 2012 8:57 pm

Stewart, Beaner I would get rid of. We all know the Blues won't sign/trade for any scorer in the league. I mean come on they could have done that to have gotten this off season and before the trade deadline, but they sat on their hands and did nothing.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby theohall » Sun May 06, 2012 9:04 pm

If the one playoff game in 9 wonder, #25, is still on this roster next season, I have serious concerns about the Blues front office decisions, although they have been very good for the most part since Davidson took over as President.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby cardsfan04 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:25 pm

I don't want to see much turnover. We have a very solid core. Tweaking is all we need.

I strongly disagree with getting rid of Oshie, Perron or Elliott.

Elliott- He was sick during the regular season. Bad 2nd round (w/ some bad play in front of him too), but that's just 4 games. Most importantly, he and Halak push each other. I fear that Halak would regress without Elliott.

Perron- Had 42 points in 57 games. That projects to 60 points in 82 which is more than anybody got for us this year. It doesn't make much sense to me to lose one of our best offensive players when we struggle to score as is. He was pretty terrible in the playoffs though, so I'd listen on offers for him, but I wouldn't actively shop him.

Oshie- He does a lot more than score for us. He's a physical presence and a key member of both our PP and PK. Unless he wants to break the bank, I would re-sign him as one of our top priorities.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby beat2life » Sun May 06, 2012 11:04 pm

cardsfan04 wrote:I don't want to see much turnover. We have a very solid core. Tweaking is all we need.

I strongly disagree with getting rid of Oshie, Perron or Elliott.

Elliott- He was sick during the regular season. Bad 2nd round (w/ some bad play in front of him too), but that's just 4 games. Most importantly, he and Halak push each other. I fear that Halak would regress without Elliott.

Perron- Had 42 points in 57 games. That projects to 60 points in 82 which is more than anybody got for us this year. It doesn't make much sense to me to lose one of our best offensive players when we struggle to score as is. He was pretty terrible in the playoffs though, so I'd listen on offers for him, but I wouldn't actively shop him.

Oshie- He does a lot more than score for us. He's a physical presence and a key member of both our PP and PK. Unless he wants to break the bank, I would re-sign him as one of our top priorities.


came to post pretty much this. Oshie, Steen, and Backes seemed to be the only people playing with any sense of urgency out there. drop: Jack n Cola, "human punching bag" Crombeen, I'm on the fence about Dags and Stewart, and indifferent about any other obvious choices. Yeah, I know Stewart has been god awful, but he tricks you by giving you that glimmer of hope. I'd say keep him, and see how he performs during the first portion of the season. But then again everyone said that about Bergland.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby Krigloch the Furious » Sun May 06, 2012 11:10 pm

a goal scorer and a big strong bastard on the back end.

Will Ian Cole be a full timer next year?
Bergs and Perron have to put up numbers next year.
Oshie is a do it all kinda guy similar to Backes and I dont expect over 60pts from those dudes.
WTF happened to Chris Stewart?
Pie and Shatty will only get better. Would like to see both of them get stronger.

Cant wait to see Schwartz. Tarasenko would be nice, but it's the Blues...
Elliott and Halak should be on this team for years to come. And they are both young.
Not sure how I feel about Jackman.
A healthy Alex Steen will be good.
Same with Andy Macdonald.

This team will be fighting for the presidents trophy again next year.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby Gaijin Flyer » Mon May 07, 2012 8:12 am

UFA:
Arnott
Langenbrunner
Nichol
Porter

Colaiacovo
Huskins
Jackman

RFA:
Oshie
Perron
Stewart

I think Oshie and Perron will be ~$2.75M-3.0M to sign. Keep them both. Couldn't get better value anywhere.
Offer Arnott another year. Much better for the team than Langenbrunner, more versatile at his age.
Offer Jackman a big pay cut or let him go. Still can't believe we paid him nearly $4M/year.
See if someone wants to sign and trade for Stewart or see if we can get compensation from an RFA sign away.
I'm on the fence on Colaiacovo. He just seems to make so many mistakes in his own end. Don't know if it's bad communication or effort.
We might sign better on the market with him and Jax gone.


source: http://nhlnumbers.com/teams/STL?year=2012
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby cprice12 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:41 am

A lot of what we do depends on if Tarasenko is coming over or not and how they feel about Schwartz.

In general, moving Oshie, Perron or Elliott would be a mistake...of course, it would depend on who we get in return. But I'd just as soon they stay.

Elliott and Halak feed off each other and push each other. Halak has ALWAYS played better when he has had someone pushing him for the starting job and the 2nd round seemed to show the same for Elliott. Until Allen is ready to be a force in net, Elliott stays...otherwise, I think our goaltending regresses next year...and that would be disastrous. If we did move him, we had better get something great in return...otherwise, it's best he stays here. He had an outstanding season and he is only on the books for $1.7 million next year.

I don't get the desire to move Oshie. He's not a 30 goal scorer...he's a 20-ish goal guy (he scored 19 this year...it's one goal off from 20, saying he isn't a 20-goal guys is being nitpicky). He led the team in points this year and he is a dynamic player who playes in all situations, plus he hits like a truck. If you are looking for goals in the box score to evaluate how good Oshie is, you aren't paying attention.

They won't move Peron. He has injury concerns and they wouldn't get full value. I'm sure they want to see what he can do in hopefully a full season next year. We need scoring, and Perron is a scorer. He's worth more to this team than what we could get for him in a trade right now. He can be a 30-goal guy next year.

Dags is under contract next year. Unless he is traded, he'll be here...and I don't think he'd fetch much in a trade. He's a good depth forward who can score...and John Kelly will remind you every other game that he has the hardest wrist shot on the team.

Stewart is an RFA and made $3.25 million this year. I don't want him back unless Tarasenko isn't coming over and we can't sign a replacement via free agency. I don't want him back at $2 million either. I'd be shocked if he comes back. When a player like him has a season like he had AND is a healthy scratch for playoff games, that's the writing on the wall. How can they bring him back? Porter can do more than Stewart and he can do it for less $$.

Why do some of you want to let Nichol go? He is severely underrated. They could resign him for $750k or so...he is well worth that money.

I wouldn't mind seeing Langenbrunner come back...but I think Arnott is gone...maybe Langenbrunner too, to make way for Tarasenko, Schwartz and or any free agents.

I dunno about Carlo. He's a free agent and made $2.5 million last year. I'm on the fence. He looked really bad in the playoffs, but he had an ok season. My concern with him is his offensive production has been on the steady decline for the past 3 seasons now. He needs to contribute more offensively, otherwise he is expendable.

Notable available free agents:
Semin ($6.7 million)
Parise ($6 million)
Doan ($4.5 million....I can't see him leaving PHX...but if they are looking for guys to get it done in the playoffs, this is the guy)
Weber ($7.5 million ...RFA)

What they should do:
- Sign either Weber or Parise (new ownership needs to make a splash right off the bat).
- Bring in Tarasenko & Schwartz.
- Sign Langenbrunner.
- Let Arnott, Huskins, Stewart, Porter & Carlo go.
- Sign Jackman.
- Sign Oshie & Perron.

What they will do:
- Bring in Tarasenko & Schwartz.
- Let Langenbrunner, Arnott, Huskins, & Stewart go.
- Sign Jackman.
- Sign Porter.
- Sign Oshie & Perron.
- Sign Carlo.
- Sign a value forward & defenseman in the $1.5 - $2 million range each.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby thedoc » Mon May 07, 2012 8:45 am

1) We will most likely shop one of the goalies. That doesn't mean we move them but we will entertain offers.

2) If Stewart will re-sign for 2 or 2.1 million on a one year deal I say go ahead.

3) I think Perron has run his course for us. He has made it clear he want to play for Montreal. If you can't make a deal with them then I think he will want to go somewhere in Canada. So as cardsfan said his point total is impressive for what he played this year so I think he should have some value.

4) This is our most important need BTW. A big stay at home crease clearing Defensive D-Man. If we are going to have 2 up and coming offensive minded D-Man like Pie and Shat then we need someone to compliment them. Cole is going to be that guy I think now we need another.
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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby TheoSqua » Mon May 07, 2012 10:26 am

I think the Blues need to stick to the concept of big strong forwards with solid fore-check and defense-first attitude. Small players that play-big like McDonald,Oshie,Perron, etc. are great in the regular season. They just can't keep up over the course of a long-season when they're all you have for offense. Players like Backes, Berglund, and Stewart are who have to win playoff games.

So i'd try to stack up on a couple big scorers, depending on if Tarasenko comes over, and another quality defenseman. I'd sign someone like Dustin Penner (he's overpriced and underperforms, but the sort of players you need in the Playoffs. And have something like this:

McDonald - Backes - Tarasenko/Schwartz
Perron - Berglund - Steen
Stewart - Oshie - Penner
Reaves/Crombeen - Sobotka - Nichol

Then you have six physical forwards in your top 9 in Backes/Tarasenko/Berlung/Stewart/Oshie/Penner. No one line is spectacular but can compliment Hitchcock's short shift full tenacity mentality.

I'd prefer to find a left handed defenseman to stick with Pietrangelo that is better than Jackman. I just don't see any available d-men that are better. Maybe we can trade Schwartz for Runblad :-P

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Re: Off Season Roster Change Suggestions

Postby tjk002 » Mon May 07, 2012 11:54 am

cprice12 wrote:A lot of what we do depends on if Tarasenko is coming over or not and how they feel about Schwartz.

In general, moving Oshie, Perron or Elliott would be a mistake...of course, it would depend on who we get in return. But I'd just as soon they stay.

Elliott and Halak feed off each other and push each other. Halak has ALWAYS played better when he has had someone pushing him for the starting job and the 2nd round seemed to show the same for Elliott. Until Allen is ready to be a force in net, Elliott stays...otherwise, I think our goaltending regresses next year...and that would be disastrous. If we did move him, we had better get something great in return...otherwise, it's best he stays here. He had an outstanding season and he is only on the books for $1.7 million next year.

I don't get the desire to move Oshie. He's not a 30 goal scorer...he's a 20-ish goal guy (he scored 19 this year...it's one goal off from 20, saying he isn't a 20-goal guys is being nitpicky). He led the team in points this year and he is a dynamic player who playes in all situations, plus he hits like a truck. If you are looking for goals in the box score to evaluate how good Oshie is, you aren't paying attention.

They won't move Peron. He has injury concerns and they wouldn't get full value. I'm sure they want to see what he can do in hopefully a full season next year. We need scoring, and Perron is a scorer. He's worth more to this team than what we could get for him in a trade right now. He can be a 30-goal guy next year.

Dags is under contract next year. Unless he is traded, he'll be here...and I don't think he'd fetch much in a trade. He's a good depth forward who can score...and John Kelly will remind you every other game that he has the hardest wrist shot on the team.

Stewart is an RFA and made $3.25 million this year. I don't want him back unless Tarasenko isn't coming over and we can't sign a replacement via free agency. I don't want him back at $2 million either. I'd be shocked if he comes back. When a player like him has a season like he had AND is a healthy scratch for playoff games, that's the writing on the wall. How can they bring him back? Porter can do more than Stewart and he can do it for less $$.

Why do some of you want to let Nichol go? He is severely underrated. They could resign him for $750k or so...he is well worth that money.

I wouldn't mind seeing Langenbrunner come back...but I think Arnott is gone...maybe Langenbrunner too, to make way for Tarasenko, Schwartz and or any free agents.

I dunno about Carlo. He's a free agent and made $2.5 million last year. I'm on the fence. He looked really bad in the playoffs, but he had an ok season. My concern with him is his offensive production has been on the steady decline for the past 3 seasons now. He needs to contribute more offensively, otherwise he is expendable.

Notable available free agents:
Semin ($6.7 million)
Parise ($6 million)
Doan ($4.5 million....I can't see him leaving PHX...but if they are looking for guys to get it done in the playoffs, this is the guy)
Weber ($7.5 million ...RFA)

What they should do:
- Sign either Weber or Parise (new ownership needs to make a splash right off the bat).
- Bring in Tarasenko & Schwartz.
- Sign Langenbrunner.
- Let Arnott, Huskins, Stewart, Porter & Carlo go.
- Sign Jackman.
- Sign Oshie & Perron.

What they will do:
- Bring in Tarasenko & Schwartz.
- Let Langenbrunner, Arnott, Huskins, & Stewart go.
- Sign Jackman.
- Sign Porter.
- Sign Oshie & Perron.
- Sign Carlo.
- Sign a value forward & defenseman in the $1.5 - $2 million range each.


Sign Jackman? How much? You can't pay him over 1 million a year. He's just not worth it, I'd much rather see Carlo at 2 to 2.5 million. They both sucked in the playoffs, but at least Carlo has a decent shot. Carlo's worst game of the playoffs is where I believe he was playing on wrong side since Pie was out and I will admit he looked lost. Just by letting Jackman walk, you save $4 million a year and use that towards Parise (maybe Backes has some pull with him from their Olympic team days). If you could keep Stewart cheap, I'd keep him. I'd also lean towards keeping Langenbrunner for another year. Doesn't sound good about Tarasenko coming over either.
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