Where did the offense go?

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Where did the offense go?

Postby TheoSqua » Wed May 09, 2012 4:22 pm

Teams left in the playoffs:
New Jersey - 11th in Goals (and the most boring 11th in goals i've ever seen)
NY Rangers - 13th in Goals
Washington - 15th in Goals
Phoenix... - 17th in Goals
Los Angeles- 29th in Goals

Goals Against:
Los Angeles - 2nd in Goals Against
NY Rangers - 3rd in Goals Against
Phoenix - 7th in Goals Against
New Jersey - 8th in Goals Against
Washington - 19th in Goals Against (Who changed their approach mid-season to be more defensive)

Currently it's cheaper to defend than it is to score. Defense takes less skill and less money and throws Rock when offense throws Scissors.

Is this something that will change from market variation (defense is currently undervalued and offense overvalued - with all the defense-first teams making successful playoff runs the price of defensive oriented players will go up and no-defense offense guys will become cheaper in comparison), or is it a result of the salary cap and NHL officiating making developing offense prohibitively expensive in comparison to the success of defense-first teams?

I personally don't see Hockey being successful in a soccer-like environment that pushes defense, but I don't know of any easy ways to push teams to play a more offense-first style game.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby theohall » Wed May 09, 2012 4:59 pm

TheoSqua wrote:I personally don't see Hockey being successful in a soccer-like environment that pushes defense, but I don't know of any easy ways to push teams to play a more offense-first style game.


I know how to fix the offense. Get rid of the ridiculous sized goalie equipment.

Patrick Roy 1985
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Patrick Roy 2003
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Not the enlarged blocker and the leg pads going half-way up the thigh when they were just above the knee.

Even worse is what they have today. Halak:
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leg pads almost to his waist. Blocker which goes beyond his elbow. Monstrous size glove with the cheater added.

Go back to the 1985 goalie pad regulations and I guarantee offense will increase. It's the only thing to change. Everything else can stay the same.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby glen a richter » Wed May 09, 2012 5:13 pm

Hockey will never be as awful as that hideous excuse for a sport they call soccer. At least in hockey they move, take shots and actually attempt to score, and many times do even though the net isn't the size of Florida.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby goon attack » Wed May 09, 2012 9:36 pm

If any of the rationale behind the bloated goalie equipment is goalie safety, enlarging the goal will have the same effect as reducing the size of the equipment.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby STLADOGG » Wed May 09, 2012 11:11 pm

goon attack wrote:If any of the rationale behind the bloated goalie equipment is goalie safety, enlarging the goal will have the same effect as reducing the size of the equipment.

Guys are shooting over 100 MPH with consistency...the goalies need these big pads. Either do what goon says or make only wood sticks legal and reduce the pads.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby cprice12 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:50 pm

STLADOGG wrote:
goon attack wrote:If any of the rationale behind the bloated goalie equipment is goalie safety, enlarging the goal will have the same effect as reducing the size of the equipment.

Guys are shooting over 100 MPH with consistency...the goalies need these big pads. Either do what goon says or make only wood sticks legal and reduce the pads.


Goalies do not need huge equipment today.
Iafrate was shooting over 100mph back in the 80's. You don't need extra wide and extra tall leg pads, oversized gloves and 12" wide blockers to protect yourself.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby STLADOGG » Thu May 10, 2012 8:18 am

cprice12 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:
goon attack wrote:If any of the rationale behind the bloated goalie equipment is goalie safety, enlarging the goal will have the same effect as reducing the size of the equipment.

Guys are shooting over 100 MPH with consistency...the goalies need these big pads. Either do what goon says or make only wood sticks legal and reduce the pads.


Goalies do not need huge equipment today.
Iafrate was shooting over 100mph back in the 80's. You don't need extra wide and extra tall leg pads, oversized gloves and 12" wide blockers to protect yourself.

It seems like the league is really focused on keeping goalie safety a #1 issue. I just don't see them doing something that would increase there chances of having an injury.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby theohall » Thu May 10, 2012 8:46 am

STLADOGG wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:
goon attack wrote:If any of the rationale behind the bloated goalie equipment is goalie safety, enlarging the goal will have the same effect as reducing the size of the equipment.

Guys are shooting over 100 MPH with consistency...the goalies need these big pads. Either do what goon says or make only wood sticks legal and reduce the pads.


Goalies do not need huge equipment today.
Iafrate was shooting over 100mph back in the 80's. You don't need extra wide and extra tall leg pads, oversized gloves and 12" wide blockers to protect yourself.

It seems like the league is really focused on keeping goalie safety a #1 issue. I just don't see them doing something that would increase there chances of having an injury.


Al MacInnis was also shooting in the 100s throughout the 80s and they didn't need the monster equipment then. Over-sized goalie equipment is why save percentages are now consistently north of .920 for top 10 goaltenders. That was not even close to being true most of my life time (which started in 1965). Probably going to dig up all the Vezina winners just to show the change in statistics over the years. Need some time for that, though.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby cprice12 » Thu May 10, 2012 8:48 am

STLADOGG wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:
goon attack wrote:If any of the rationale behind the bloated goalie equipment is goalie safety, enlarging the goal will have the same effect as reducing the size of the equipment.

Guys are shooting over 100 MPH with consistency...the goalies need these big pads. Either do what goon says or make only wood sticks legal and reduce the pads.


Goalies do not need huge equipment today.
Iafrate was shooting over 100mph back in the 80's. You don't need extra wide and extra tall leg pads, oversized gloves and 12" wide blockers to protect yourself.

It seems like the league is really focused on keeping goalie safety a #1 issue. I just don't see them doing something that would increase there chances of having an injury.


Again, you don't need a 12" wide blocker and oversized trapper for protection. You don't need extra wide pads for protection. The increase in the size of most goalie equipment has nothing to do with protection and everything to do with stopping the puck. Maybe you could make an argument for the chest & arm protectors, but that's about it...and honestly, even those are bigger than they need to be.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby theohall » Thu May 10, 2012 10:57 am

  • 1984 Tom Barasso .893
  • 1985 Pelle Lindbergh .899
  • 1986 John Vanbiesbrouck .887
  • 1987 Ron Hextall .902
  • 1988 Grant Fuhr .881
  • 1989 Patrick Roy .908
  • 1990 Patrick Roy .912
  • 1991 Ed Belfour .910
  • 1992 Patrick Roy .914
  • 1993 Ed Belfour .906
  • 1994 Dominik Hasek .930
  • 1995 Dominik Hasek .930
  • 1996 Jim Carey .906
  • 1997 Dominik Hasek .930
  • 1998 Dominik Hasek .932
  • 1999 Dominik Hasek .937
  • 2000 Olaf Kolzig .917
  • 2001 Dominik Hasek .915
  • 2002 Jose Theodore .931
  • 2003 Martin Brodeur .914
  • 2004 Martin Brodeur .917
  • 2006 Mikka Kiprusoff .923
  • 2007 Martin Brodeur .922
  • 2008 Martin Brodeur .920
  • 2009 Tim Thomas .933
  • 2010 Ryan Miller .929
  • 2011 Tim Thomas .938

1994 is when everything changed in favor of goalies, it seems.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby northwest dave » Thu May 10, 2012 11:25 am

Step back from the goalies and look at the defensive systems now in place. Maybe things changed after '94 because that's when New Jersey really got going with the trap.

Sure goalie equipment is bigger, but it sure seems to take forever to get a decent shot on net.

To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby DaDitka » Thu May 10, 2012 12:04 pm

WOW...from 84 - 08 only two of them posted .930 or better....and Hasek did it 5 out of 6 years......SICK!
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby TheoSqua » Thu May 10, 2012 12:10 pm

And hasek's equipment from then seems tiny today:

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I remember thinking Hasek having a .930 save percentage was insane and just blew my mind. I remember having a .880 save percentage in roller hockey and thinking I wasn't too terrible.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby kodos » Thu May 10, 2012 2:12 pm

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I think one of the main reasons offense is way down is because it's much harder to make the playoffs now.

Back when there were 21 teams, and 16 of them made the playoffs, what was the point of running rigid defensive schemes in the regular season? Why not run and gun and pad your stats? Why not take chances?

The games didn't matter for squat in the grand scheme of things so the players were playing for pride and fun more than anything.

These days, 2 or 3 wins is sometimes the only thing separating a 6th seed and a 9th seed. Every game matters. Every point matters and it's no guarantee that anyone is going to make the playoffs.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby glen a richter » Thu May 10, 2012 5:45 pm

Make rinks olympic sized, shrink goalie pads
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby ViPeRx007 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:00 am

Make the puck smaller.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby Portland Blues » Fri May 11, 2012 8:17 am

Add some sort of "free throw" as a result of penalties. :wink:
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby DaDitka » Fri May 11, 2012 8:21 am

Add some colored circles that very the value of a score..a 'two point' circle.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby STLADOGG » Fri May 11, 2012 8:25 am

Whenever a player passes another player call a penalty on them.
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Re: Where did the offense go?

Postby thedoc » Fri May 11, 2012 8:46 am

The quickest and cheapest option is to make the net bigger by a 18 inches. 15 inches wider 3 inches taller.
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