Second verse same as the first

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Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:42 pm

Posted last year
flyingnote38 wrote:Unlike last season when the Kings basically dominated the Blues, you could argue the Blues for the most part outplayed the Kings in this series. But they converted our defensive lapses into goals; and we could not reciprocate.

Frankly, the Blues lack first line offensive talent. They have three lines that are legitimately second line caliber and a very functional fourth line. They even have players who could be secondary talents on a legitimate first line, but they have no elite scorers; no player you would build an #1 line around. The only 'St Louis' that appears among the league scoring leaders plays for Tampa.

Had this been a normal season, this team would have been assumed to have made the playoffs and contended for the division title and would have been judged solely on how far they made it in the playoffs. But the lockout, shortened western conference only schedule, and injuries especially in goal made making the playoffs and gaining home ice seem like an accomplishment.

Keith Jones suggested tonight that this series represents 'progress' for the Blues, because it was harder for the Kings to eliminate us this year than last. What this series really represents is a need to recognize that this core is simply not good enough to win the Cup. A first round exit for this team does not constitute progress.


On march 3rd, I opined a first round match up was not to be desired ( to much derision). But we just watched why. A series for the ages, yes, but another first round exit for the Blues.

This team needs to add 2 first line talents this offseason or we will have to decide that being the third best team in the division and one and done in the Playoffs is good enough. And I don't really have faith in Army to do it.
Last edited by flyingnote38 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby glen a richter » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:43 pm

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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby KrustyKevo » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:47 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:Posted last year
flyingnote38 wrote:Unlike last season when the Kings basically dominated the Blues, you could argue the Blues for the most part outplayed the Kings in this series. But they converted our defensive lapses into goals; and we could not reciprocate.

Frankly, the Blues lack first line offensive talent. They have three lines that are legitimately second line caliber and a very functional fourth line. They even have players who could be secondary talents on a legitimate first line, but they have no elite scorers; no player you would build an #1 line around. The only 'St Louis' that appears among the league scoring leaders plays for Tampa.

Had this been a normal season, this team would have been assumed to have made the playoffs and contended for the division title and would have been judged solely on how far they made it in the playoffs. But the lockout, shortened western conference only schedule, and injuries especially in goal made making the playoffs and gaining home ice seem like an accomplishment.

Keith Jones suggested tonight that this series represents 'progress' for the Blues, because it was harder for the Kings to eliminate us this year than last. What this series really represents is a need to recognize that this core is simply not good enough to win the Cup. A first round exit for this team does not constitute progress.


On march 3rd, I opined a first round match up was not to be desired ( to much derision). But we just watched why. A series for the ages, yes, but another first round exit for the Blues.

This team needs to add 2 first line talents this offseason or we will have to decide that being the third best team and one and done in the Playoffs is good enough. And I don't really have faith in Army to do it.

It's a good point. And I can certainly agree. That was the difference between us and Chicago this series. They have real superstars who can come up with clutch goals when given the chances. All we have is a bunch of pretty good players getting great chances but doing absolutely nothing with them.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:53 pm

The Hawks are simply more talented and any dummy can tell.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:24 pm

Since the year lost to lock out (ie this core)
1) 0-4 in elimation games
2) 1-12 in playoff games following a playoff loss
3) 2-10 on the road in the playoffs
4) 0-6 in road playoff games following a playoff loss
5) accomplishments: 1 division title, 1 playoff series win
6) epic for the ages collapse to steal second place from the jaws of first.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:34 pm

as this team stumbled down the stretch (I guess that's a polite description of their 6 game losing streak that bunged this year's cup chances), I found myself lamenting the missed opportunity in 2000 more than this year's. That team I thought had the talent and stuff to be a Cup contender; this team, I just don't see it. You look at our division rivals (Hawks and Aves); they have better goaltending and 4 forwards apiece who would be our best, defense in the Hawks case at least is at least as good and probably better.

In a ironic twist, the Chi Trib's preview of the match up favored the Hawks in all categories over the Blues except one:
forwards, defense, goaltending, Coaching favored the Hawks.
The Blues special teams got the nod.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:01 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:as this team stumbled down the stretch (I guess that's a polite description of their 6 game losing streak that bunged this year's cup chances), I found myself lamenting the missed opportunity in 2000 more than this year's. That teit!m I thought had the talent and stuff to be a Cup contender; this team, I just don't see it. You look at our division rivals (Hawks and Aves); they have better goaltending and 4 forwards apiece who would be our best, defense in the Hawks case at least is at least as good and probably better.

In a ironic twist, the Chi Trib's preview of the match up favored the Hawks in all categories over the Blues except one:
forwards, defense, goaltending, Coaching favored the Hawks.
The Blues special teams got the nod.


The 2000 team was WAY better! Look at the Blues PP with Chopper and Prongs! Deadliest I've ever seen in St.Louis! If Demitra didn't get hurt they very well might have beaten the Sharks! Then who knows? We had Wal Mart money so should've made the most of it!

RIP Pavol. :cry:
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:03 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:Since the year lost to lock out (ie this core)
1) 0-4 in elimation games
2) 1-12 in playoff games following a playoff loss
3) 2-10 on the road in the playoffs
4) 0-6 in road playoff games following a playoff loss
5) accomplishments: 1 division title, 1 playoff series win
6) epic for the ages collapse to steal second place from the jaws of first.


Plus the Blues haven't won a 2nd round playoff game in 12 years!
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby dmiles2186 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:03 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:Posted last year
flyingnote38 wrote:Unlike last season when the Kings basically dominated the Blues, you could argue the Blues for the most part outplayed the Kings in this series. But they converted our defensive lapses into goals; and we could not reciprocate.

Frankly, the Blues lack first line offensive talent. They have three lines that are legitimately second line caliber and a very functional fourth line. They even have players who could be secondary talents on a legitimate first line, but they have no elite scorers; no player you would build an #1 line around. The only 'St Louis' that appears among the league scoring leaders plays for Tampa.

Had this been a normal season, this team would have been assumed to have made the playoffs and contended for the division title and would have been judged solely on how far they made it in the playoffs. But the lockout, shortened western conference only schedule, and injuries especially in goal made making the playoffs and gaining home ice seem like an accomplishment.

Keith Jones suggested tonight that this series represents 'progress' for the Blues, because it was harder for the Kings to eliminate us this year than last. What this series really represents is a need to recognize that this core is simply not good enough to win the Cup. A first round exit for this team does not constitute progress.


On march 3rd, I opined a first round match up was not to be desired ( to much derision). But we just watched why. A series for the ages, yes, but another first round exit for the Blues.

This team needs to add 2 first line talents this offseason or we will have to decide that being the third best team in the division and one and done in the Playoffs is good enough. And I don't really have faith in Army to do it.


2 first line talents? Yeah, let's call up every team in the league and ask them to give away one of their 3 best forwards.

I haven't checked the free agency list yet, but isn't Vanek the top of the line when it comes to forwards? I don't want to overpay for a guy on the decline. Call it 'Paul Kariya Syndrome.'
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:19 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
flyingnote38 wrote:This team needs to add 2 first line talents this offseason or we will have to decide that being the third best team in the division and one and done in the Playoffs is good enough. And I don't really have faith in Army to do it.


2 first line talents? Yeah, let's call up every team in the league and ask them to give away one of their 3 best forwards.

I haven't checked the free agency list yet, but isn't Vanek the top of the line when it comes to forwards? I don't want to overpay for a guy on the decline. Call it 'Paul Kariya Syndrome.'


3 ways to acquire elite offensive talent: draft, trade, free agency

draft seems fairly unlikely in a timeframe to help this core.
a trade for one looks like a possiblity, I suggested a couple on the offseason changes thread. But many other possibile targets exist. Only one team will win the Cup; 29 with a reason to make roster changes. Teams with high priced talent and missed playoffs seem like good teams to call (Washington, Vancouver, Carolina, Toronto)

As for free agency, #4 on the list looks like a prime target, but I'd slate him for line 2 with Backes at line 1 center and Sobotka line 3 center.

Player Pos Team Age Cap Hit Expiry
Gaborik, Marian » R LAK 32 $7,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Heatley, Dany » L MIN 33 $7,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Vanek, Thomas » L MTL 30 $7,142,857 2014 (UFA)
Stastny, Paul » C COL 28 $6,600,000 2014 (UFA)
Cammalleri, Mike » L CGY 31 $6,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Iginla, Jarome » R BOS 36 $6,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Alfredsson, Daniel » R DET 41 $5,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Hemsky, Ales » R OTT 30 $5,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Gionta, Brian » R MTL 35 $5,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Jokinen, Olli » C WPG 35 $4,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Whitney, Ray » L DAL 41 $4,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Legwand, David » C DET 33 $4,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Michalek, Milan » L OTT 29 $4,333,333 2014 (UFA)
Callahan, Ryan » R TBL 29 $4,275,000 2014 (UFA)
Roy, Derek » C STL 30 $4,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Jagr, Jaromir » R NJD 42 $4,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Koivu, Saku » C ANA 39 $3,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Bolland, Dave » C TOR 27 $3,375,000 2014 (UFA)
Moulson, Matt » L MIN 30 $3,133,333 2014 (UFA)
Grabovski, Mikhail » C WAS 30 $3,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Vrbata, Radim » R PHX 32 $3,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Samuelsson, Mikael » R DET 37 $3,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Jokinen, Jussi » L PIT 31 $3,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Setoguchi, Devin » R WPG 27 $3,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Ott, Steve » C STL 31 $2,950,000 2014 (UFA)
Kulemin, Nikolai » R TOR 27 $2,800,000 2014 (UFA)
Downie, Steve » R PHI 27 $2,650,000 2014 (UFA)
Stempniak, Lee » R PIT 31 $2,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Smyth, Ryan » L EDM 38 $2,250,000 2014 (UFA)
Moss, David » R PHX 32 $2,100,000 2014 (UFA)
Bertuzzi, Todd » R DET 39 $2,075,000 2014 (UFA)
Bouchard, Pierre-Marc » R CHI 30 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Penner, Dustin » L WAS 31 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Selanne, Teemu » R ANA 43 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Winnik, Daniel » L ANA 29 $1,800,000 2014 (UFA)
Fiddler, Vernon » C DAL 33 $1,800,000 2014 (UFA)
Cleary, Danny » L DET 35 $1,750,000 2014 (UFA)
Goc, Marcel » C PIT 30 $1,700,000 2014 (UFA)
Boyle, Brian » C NYR 29 $1,700,000 2014 (UFA)
Pyatt, Taylor » L PIT 32 $1,550,000 2014 (UFA)
Rupp, Mike » R MIN 34 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
McClement, Jay » C TOR 31 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Morrow, Brenden » L STL 35 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Jones, Ryan » R EDM 29 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:33 pm

So the Blues can afford another $7 million player? I always liked Gaborik but he is no guarantee to be a difference maker in this series like Kane and Toews were for the Hawks.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:38 pm

I would love to have Paul Stastny on this team but I doubt the Avs will let him walk, IMO.

No thanks to Heatley or Gaborik. Gaborik can't handle the tight checking playoffs very well and Heatley brings more baggage than I think he's worth.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby dmiles2186 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:39 pm

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:So the Blues can afford another $7 million player? I always liked Gaborik but he is no guarantee to be a difference maker in this series like Kane and Toews were for the Hawks.


This is my concern too. We can spend a bunch of money on a free agent forwards but that clogs up our cap pretty heavily. The guy on that list that intrigues me is Stastny. I don't know if the Avs will let him walk, but he's under 30, he's a top line center, and he'd look real nice in the Note.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:03 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:So the Blues can afford another $7 million player? I always liked Gaborik but he is no guarantee to be a difference maker in this series like Kane and Toews were for the Hawks.


This is my concern too. We can spend a bunch of money on a free agent forwards but that clogs up our cap pretty heavily. The guy on that list that intrigues me is Stastny. I don't know if the Avs will let him walk, but he's under 30, he's a top line center, and he'd look real nice in the Note.


we will actually have a boatload of cap space. But how inclined will the Blues' owners be to spend.

Stillman doesn't have deep pockets. Also, how many home playoff games did they factor into this year's budget? Realignment seemed like it should benefit the Blues more than any other team in the West. Only 3 teams in our division made the playoffs last season and the Wild were the 8th seed -- you have to think the Blues' brass saw no way that anyone other than the Hawks or us would win the division and therfore no way we would play any cup caliber team until round 2 at the earliest.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby glen a richter » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:05 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:So the Blues can afford another $7 million player? I always liked Gaborik but he is no guarantee to be a difference maker in this series like Kane and Toews were for the Hawks.


This is my concern too. We can spend a bunch of money on a free agent forwards but that clogs up our cap pretty heavily. The guy on that list that intrigues me is Stastny. I don't know if the Avs will let him walk, but he's under 30, he's a top line center, and he'd look real nice in the Note.


we will actually have a boatload of cap space. But how inclined will the Blues' owners be to spend.

Stillman doesn't have deep pockets. Also, how many home playoff games did they factor into this year's budget? Realignment seemed like it should benefit the Blues more than any other team in the West. Only 3 teams in our division made the playoffs last season and the Wild were the 8th seed -- you have to think the Blues' brass saw no way that anyone other than the Hawks or us would win the division and therfore no way we would play any cup caliber team until round 2 at the earliest.


Explain how we'll have a boatload of cap space without clearing some people off the roster.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:20 pm

glen a richter wrote:"we will actually have a boatload of cap space. But how inclined will the Blues' owners be to spend."

Explain how we'll have a boatload of cap space without clearing some people off the roster.


http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=27

cap goes up to $71 million
we trimmed Stewart's $5 M already (or Ott's $2.95 M)
Scratch Roy's $4 M and $5 M from goaltending.

Thats your starting point.
Schwartz and Sobotka get raises. So that probably an extra $3.25 M added to what they made this year.

You can recoup that by dealing Berglund if you wish.
resign Morrow if you wish.

That leaves you about $18 M in cap space with needs being a goalie and some depth forwards; the rest can be used to upgrade the top line.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:29 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:So the Blues can afford another $7 million player? I always liked Gaborik but he is no guarantee to be a difference maker in thi series like Kane and Toews were for the Hawks.


This is my concern too. We can spend a bunch of money on a free agent forwards but that clogs up our cap pretty heavily. The guy on that list that intrigues me is Stastny. I don't know if the Avs will let him walk, but he's under 30, he's a top line center, and he'd look real nice in the Note.


What about Martin St.Louis? I don't know if he's available and I know he's not the answer to all our problems but just imagine what Scottrade would be like when he scores. He would be an instant fan favorite!

"Goal for St.Louis by Martin St.Looooooouuuuuuuuuie!" :okman:
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby glen a richter » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:30 pm

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:So the Blues can afford another $7 million player? I always liked Gaborik but he is no guarantee to be a difference maker in thi series like Kane and Toews were for the Hawks.


This is my concern too. We can spend a bunch of money on a free agent forwards but that clogs up our cap pretty heavily. The guy on that list that intrigues me is Stastny. I don't know if the Avs will let him walk, but he's under 30, he's a top line center, and he'd look real nice in the Note.


What about Martin St.Louis? I don't know if he's available and I know he's not the answer to all our problems but just imagine what Scottrade would be like when he scores. He would be an instant fan favorite!

"Goal for St.Louis by Martin St.Looooooouuuuuuuuuie!" :okman:


Maybe if he wasn't 100 years old by now.
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:27 pm

Stastny or Spezza?
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Re: Second verse same as the first

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:38 pm

Stastny.
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