2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

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2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:54 am

Eff off Bettman. This is getting ridiculous.

Can't wait for NBC Sports to air a 'Rivalry Night' episode talking about that one game between the Hawks and the Caps, like, 23 years ago when someone scored a goal and someone else punched somebody and nothing happened before or after that because no one gives a flying frack.

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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby cardsfan04 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:01 am

ugh, so stupid. Hopefully Blues make a playoff run next year and that gets us in one. Blues/blackhawks should have an outdoor game. Hell, they should have one every year as a tradition. Maybe that's a solution to teams getting shafted. Pair every team with a rival and have the two teams play an outdoor game every year. I know that some people think that more outdoor games is "too much of a good thing," but I think that would actually work really well.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Oaklandblue » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:59 am

Washington has a team?
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Kerfuffle » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:45 pm

Washington is getting a game cause of Ovechkin. The Winter Classic formula is pretty simple. You must have one of the following two variables to get a game.

1) Big market (= big $$$ and ratings)
2) At least one stud player (ie Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, Toews)

Respectfully the Blues don't have either. That's not a slam on your players but you guys don't have a marketable stud that the league currently can market around. And being in a smaller market hurts your chance. But I do agree that a St. Louis / Hawks game would be pretty cool. You guys aren't a Minnesota / Nashville / Columbus in terms of market so I think it will happen at some point for Blues fans.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby dmiles2186 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:44 am

Kerfuffle wrote:Washington is getting a game cause of Ovechkin. The Winter Classic formula is pretty simple. You must have one of the following two variables to get a game.

1) Big market (= big $$$ and ratings)
2) At least one stud player (ie Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, Toews)

Respectfully the Blues don't have either. That's not a slam on your players but you guys don't have a marketable stud that the league currently can market around. And being in a smaller market hurts your chance. But I do agree that a St. Louis / Hawks game would be pretty cool. You guys aren't a Minnesota / Nashville / Columbus in terms of market so I think it will happen at some point for Blues fans.


I get all of this. The problem is that the NHL keeps recycling the same 5-6 teams. It's annoying. The Winter Classic was awesome. I probably will not even tune into this one, you know why? I've seen each of these teams in an outdoor game at least once or twice. The NHL is saying to the rest of their fan base, 'You are not good enough. But hey, enjoy these same teams again!'

The entire Western Conference is ignored in all of this, aside from Chicago, because blah. Why hasn't LA hosted a Winter Classic? 2 time Stanley Cup Champs. Kopitar, Doughty, Quick? They fit your criteria to a T.

And it's ridiculous that Minnesota has yet to host one. That's the state of hockey ((Frank) Detroit and their 'Hockeytown' with empty seats). Maybe they'll get one once the new football stadium is done up there, I don't know. But my point is, the NHL has ignored 95% of the league. Every year, fans out side of the precious 6 that keep getting named hope that just ONE new team is added to the rotation. And every year, the NHL is like, 'Nope, we're good. We're just going to be like the NBA and shove the same handful of stars and teams down your throat instead of cultivating new personalities and exposing all of our teams to the masses.'

*steps off soap box*
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby cardsfan04 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:30 am

dmiles2186 wrote:
Kerfuffle wrote:Washington is getting a game cause of Ovechkin. The Winter Classic formula is pretty simple. You must have one of the following two variables to get a game.

1) Big market (= big $$$ and ratings)
2) At least one stud player (ie Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, Toews)

Respectfully the Blues don't have either. That's not a slam on your players but you guys don't have a marketable stud that the league currently can market around. And being in a smaller market hurts your chance. But I do agree that a St. Louis / Hawks game would be pretty cool. You guys aren't a Minnesota / Nashville / Columbus in terms of market so I think it will happen at some point for Blues fans.


I get all of this. The problem is that the NHL keeps recycling the same 5-6 teams. It's annoying. The Winter Classic was awesome. I probably will not even tune into this one, you know why? I've seen each of these teams in an outdoor game at least once or twice. The NHL is saying to the rest of their fan base, 'You are not good enough. But hey, enjoy these same teams again!'

The entire Western Conference is ignored in all of this, aside from Chicago, because blah. Why hasn't LA hosted a Winter Classic? 2 time Stanley Cup Champs. Kopitar, Doughty, Quick? They fit your criteria to a T.

And it's ridiculous that Minnesota has yet to host one. That's the state of hockey ((Frank) Detroit and their 'Hockeytown' with empty seats). Maybe they'll get one once the new football stadium is done up there, I don't know. But my point is, the NHL has ignored 95% of the league. Every year, fans out side of the precious 6 that keep getting named hope that just ONE new team is added to the rotation. And every year, the NHL is like, 'Nope, we're good. We're just going to be like the NBA and shove the same handful of stars and teams down your throat instead of cultivating new personalities and exposing all of our teams to the masses.'

*steps off soap box*


Agree 100%. I'm frustrated that we didn't get it, but I'm mad that the same teams keep getting it. If they had 2 new teams this year that weren't the Blues, I'd be OK with that. It would at least mean they are trying to shuffle teams around somewhat. My anger is primarily directed at Betteman (because (Frank) that guy), but I'm sure NBC is a pretty big part of this too.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Kerfuffle » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:09 am

dmiles2186 wrote:Why hasn't LA hosted a Winter Classic? 2 time Stanley Cup Champs. Kopitar, Doughty, Quick? They fit your criteria to a T.

And it's ridiculous that Minnesota has yet to host one. That's the state of hockey ((Frank) Detroit and their 'Hockeytown' with empty seats). Maybe they'll get one once the new football stadium is done up there, I don't know. But my point is, the NHL has ignored 95% of the league. Every year, fans out side of the precious 6 that keep getting named hope that just ONE new team is added to the rotation. And every year, the NHL is like, 'Nope, we're good. We're just going to be like the NBA and shove the same handful of stars and teams down your throat instead of cultivating new personalities and exposing all of our teams to the masses.'


LA already hosted an outdoor game this past January. And Minnesota will never host one - they dont' fit either criteria and just their location alone is enough to eliminate them. I put Minnesota with other 'exciting' cities like Columbus and Nashville. There just wouldn't be any ratings TV for those 3 cities.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Toasted Oates » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:25 am

Kerfuffle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:Why hasn't LA hosted a Winter Classic? 2 time Stanley Cup Champs. Kopitar, Doughty, Quick? They fit your criteria to a T.

And it's ridiculous that Minnesota has yet to host one. That's the state of hockey ((Frank) Detroit and their 'Hockeytown' with empty seats). Maybe they'll get one once the new football stadium is done up there, I don't know. But my point is, the NHL has ignored 95% of the league. Every year, fans out side of the precious 6 that keep getting named hope that just ONE new team is added to the rotation. And every year, the NHL is like, 'Nope, we're good. We're just going to be like the NBA and shove the same handful of stars and teams down your throat instead of cultivating new personalities and exposing all of our teams to the masses.'


LA already hosted an outdoor game this past January. And Minnesota will never host one - they dont' fit either criteria and just their location alone is enough to eliminate them. I put Minnesota with other 'exciting' cities like Columbus and Nashville. There just wouldn't be any ratings TV for those 3 cities.

Buffalo hosted the very first one and it drew 3.8 million viewers. That's more than what the games in Boston and Philadelphia drew. You think Orchard Park, NY "excites" the masses more than Minneapolis/St. Paul? Suter and Parise aren't star players?

Minnesota will host the game in 2015-2016.

Edit: http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014 ... next-year/
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby dmiles2186 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:33 am

Kerfuffle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:Why hasn't LA hosted a Winter Classic? 2 time Stanley Cup Champs. Kopitar, Doughty, Quick? They fit your criteria to a T.

And it's ridiculous that Minnesota has yet to host one. That's the state of hockey ((Frank) Detroit and their 'Hockeytown' with empty seats). Maybe they'll get one once the new football stadium is done up there, I don't know. But my point is, the NHL has ignored 95% of the league. Every year, fans out side of the precious 6 that keep getting named hope that just ONE new team is added to the rotation. And every year, the NHL is like, 'Nope, we're good. We're just going to be like the NBA and shove the same handful of stars and teams down your throat instead of cultivating new personalities and exposing all of our teams to the masses.'


LA already hosted an outdoor game this past January. And Minnesota will never host one - they dont' fit either criteria and just their location alone is enough to eliminate them. I put Minnesota with other 'exciting' cities like Columbus and Nashville. There just wouldn't be any ratings TV for those 3 cities.


I know LA hosted an outdoor game, but not a Winter Classic, it was a Stadium Series game. There is a difference.

Also, hockey is to Minnesota as football is to Texas. They live and breathe that stuff up there. I don't care about ratings (yeah, I know NBC is in the business of ratings), that state deserves to get any and everything related to hockey.

I understand your team has already hosted one of these and they're going to play in a 2nd. They've even played another outdoor game in the Stadium Series (so yeah, they've hosted 2). For the rest of us, we're just left to wish from afar that we could experience something like this. I've long given up the hope that the Blues will host or even play in one of these until they actually do something in the playoffs. But that still doesn't address the fact that there are teams that have legitimate claims to being able to host one of these and haven't even received a look yet.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Kerfuffle » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:08 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:I know LA hosted an outdoor game, but not a Winter Classic, it was a Stadium Series game. There is a difference.


Other than the name Winter Classic vs. Stadium Series there is no difference. Personally I think the league watered down the fun of the Winter Classic by adding the additional Stadium Series games. Just like there is only one Superbowl game a year I believe there should be only one Winter Classic per year.

And yes Parise and Suter are stars in Minnesota but they haven't won anything and are more known around the NHL for the ridiculous contracts they signed at 13 years a piece. The league knows that a Minnesota outdoor game will elicit a lot of yawns. Buffalo carries a NY market and given it was the first Winter Classic there was a lot of buzz for that so I don't think you can compare Minnesota with it.

I'm also not trying to say it's fair cause it isn't but this is one of those things where the league follows the money.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Toasted Oates » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:53 pm

Kerfuffle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:I know LA hosted an outdoor game, but not a Winter Classic, it was a Stadium Series game. There is a difference.


Other than the name Winter Classic vs. Stadium Series there is no difference. Personally I think the league watered down the fun of the Winter Classic by adding the additional Stadium Series games. Just like there is only one Superbowl game a year I believe there should be only one Winter Classic per year.

And yes Parise and Suter are stars in Minnesota but they haven't won anything and are more known around the NHL for the ridiculous contracts they signed at 13 years a piece. The league knows that a Minnesota outdoor game will elicit a lot of yawns. Buffalo carries a NY market and given it was the first Winter Classic there was a lot of buzz for that so I don't think you can compare Minnesota with it.

I'm also not trying to say it's fair cause it isn't but this is one of those things were the league follows the money.

Wrong again. The Winter Classic is on New Year's Day on NBC. The LA Stadium Series game was on NBCSN on January 25. In terms of viewership and exposure, that's a big difference. And just because they haven't won doesn't mean they aren't stars. And just because Buffalo is in NY state doesn't mean it carries NYC's market. There might be a little effect but not to the extent you would think. That'd be like saying St. Louis carries a Chicago market.

Minnesota will get it in a couple years and it will draw. Quit being such a snob.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby F Keenan » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:41 pm

Kerfuffle wrote:Washington is getting a game cause of Ovechkin. The Winter Classic formula is pretty simple. You must have one of the following two variables to get a game.

1) Big market (= big $$$ and ratings)
2) At least one stud player (ie Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane, Toews)

Respectfully the Blues don't have either. That's not a slam on your players but you guys don't have a marketable stud that the league currently can market around. And being in a smaller market hurts your chance. But I do agree that a St. Louis / Hawks game would be pretty cool. You guys aren't a Minnesota / Nashville / Columbus in terms of market so I think it will happen at some point for Blues fans.


I agree, but this is a St. Louis Blues message board, so....

1) we feel like we have been overlooked and we are tired of the same teams playing every couple of years
2) it's especially frustrating because we have remained loyal and stuck by our team, while virtually no one in Chicago gave a (Frank) about the hawks prior to 2010.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:41 pm

You would think Washington would play Philly or Pitt since they have had some great games in the past and are in the same conference. Don't know why they picked a non conference team when there are plenty of in conference rivals.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Oaklandblue » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:55 pm

I call bullshit on all of this.

Who watches the Caps outside of Washington? Or the Preds outside of Nashville? Or even the Cats outside of Sunrise?

Beyond the fans locally, I can't see many more outside of the area being fans. Sure, like me they exist, but the majority of those fans are where the team is located.

Now pay attention: The CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS are playing the Caps in this. Let's face it, if a RECENT Cup team or a major TV draw is playing in the Winter Classic, which should ALWAYS be the case, it does NOT matter who their opponent is because odds are, you're tuning in to see the big dog, not the little one. And this is where Bettman is making his mistake.

The Winter Classic is an opportunity to showcase NHL teams that most may not even know exist. It could help BUILD the NHL brand past the Hawks, Kings, etc. and expand a fan base who may never have seen or heard of a team and something about them or the way they play in one game may earn them fans, which ends up helping boost the NHL brand in terms of ticket sales and such. I know a LOT of people locally who HATE the Sharks but WILL, like me, go to the Tank if their team is in town. This is a boat that Bettman and the brass are seriously missing.

If we want to talk about how the Blues don't have a star or revenue, ARE YOU FUGGING KIDDING ME? Overchecks is good, true, but he ain't no OLYMPIC HERO like TJ OSHIE is. People OUTSIDE OF HOCKEY have heard of Oshie and I've had people who can't even spell the word come and talk to me about OSH whenever I'm wearing my Note. EVERY. TIME. I'm serious.

Hell, during the Finals, they had TJ OSHIE commercials like mad on my end. Every fifth commercial was Osh in a practice jersey blasting pucks at some guy in a suit. If we're talking that Overchecks is why the Caps are getting a Winter Final, what has the boy done recently that's made him a household name like Osh?

Hell, OR EVER?

Bettman is a moron who has NO idea how to maximize the NHL experience to the general public outside of hockey, which is why he moved teams into non-traditional NHL areas, which has worked. But now he has to find ways to SUPPORT what is already there to maximize the potential and build the brand. And he's so missing the ball on that in so many ways, it's ridiculous.

To show how retarded he is, how is it the CUP CHAMPION LA KINGS aren't getting a Winter Classic right now to maximize on it? Kings/Blues. Now THAT would be epic, would build the brand and would even help Stillman build up the Blues and it all equals the NHL getting money in the coffers. Win Win for everyone.

But that would just be too much common sense for a guy like him.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby STLADOGG » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:50 pm

I've been saying for a while that it should be STL v.s Minnesota at Minny. Now that Minnesota is getting a outdoor game, hopefully I will be right.
Although most think it will be North Stars v.s South Stars.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby STLADOGG » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:06 pm

Also on the Minny outdoor game:
The Blues play at Minnesota on Nov 29, and March 21(the closest times during the Winter Classic)
Those dates don't look too promising for the Blues.
Although Minny plays the Stars in Minny on Feb 22. That's most likely the date for the game.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby cprice12 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:03 am

T.J. Oshie may not be a superstar in terms of points, but he is a superstar in terms of marketability...which is all the NHL cares about.

After the olympics Oshie was the biggest star on Team USA... and it wasn't even close. The NHL could market that no problem for the Winter Classic...and folks would tune in like mad to see it.

Aside from that...
The Blues have been one of the best teams in the NHL for the past few seasons now, and have some serious rivalries going with Chicago & LA.

Washington has been in about 13 Winter Classics now...and quite honestly, nobody really cares about them outside of Washington because they aren't a great team, they just fired their head coach, and they have goaltending issues. Besides, Ovechkin is losing his luster. He got a lot of bad press last year for his lazy play in his own end...and I think people are tired of his one dimensional game.

Blues vs. Hawks would have been a much better game. The NHL marketed them as one of the top rivalries in the NHL last year, they are in the same division and have battled for the division title the past few years, they just had a pretty bad ass first round series that was brutal and memorable...and they have a long history of bad blood going back to the 70's, 80's & 90's.

The game could have been hosted here in St. Louis or in Chicago.

And before you say something about folks not tuning in to watch the Blues, the Blues draw very good ratings when on national tv.

There is absolutely no reason why the Blues shouldn't have gotten an outdoor game next season. It was the perfect time to have them play in one. It's certainly a much better choice than Washington vs. Chicago. I don't get that at all.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Kerfuffle » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:11 am

Toasted Oates wrote: Quit being such a snob.



That was uncalled for. If you can't participate in the discussion then don't post.
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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby Kerfuffle » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:21 am

cprice12 wrote:T.J. Oshie may not be a superstar in terms of points, but he is a superstar in terms of marketability...which is all the NHL cares about. I respectfully disagree with you. I know this is your player but outside of St. Louis I don't see Oshie as a superstar.

After the olympics Oshie was the biggest star on Team USA... and it wasn't even close. That is true - but he was a hero for his shootout skills. The NHL could market that no problem for the Winter Classic...and folks would tune in like mad to see it.

Aside from that...
The Blues have been one of the best teams in the NHL for the past few seasons now, and have some serious rivalries going with Chicago & LA. True

Washington has been in about 13 Winter Classics now...and quite honestly, nobody really cares about them outside of Washington because they aren't a great team, they just fired their head coach, and they have goaltending issues. Besides, Ovechkin is losing his luster. He got a lot of bad press last year for his lazy play in his own end...and I think people are tired of his one dimensional game. Anything Ovechkin or Crosby carries higher weight. Unfair but the league is predictable in that way.

Blues vs. Hawks would have been a much better game. I agree. The NHL marketed them as one of the top rivalries in the NHL last year, they are in the same division and have battled for the division title the past few years, they just had a pretty bad ass first round series that was brutal and memorable...and they have a long history of bad blood going back to the 70's, 80's & 90's.

The game could have been hosted here in St. Louis or in Chicago. It wouldn't have been in chicago as we already hosted. But a game in St. Louis would have been nice.

And before you say something about folks not tuning in to watch the Blues, the Blues draw very good ratings when on national tv. Folks would watch the Blues. But if it was a Blues/Minny game then no. It would need to be the Blues against either a big market or original 6 team.

There is absolutely no reason why the Blues shouldn't have gotten an outdoor game next season. I agree. It was the perfect time to have them play in one. It's certainly a much better choice than Washington vs. Chicago. I don't get that at all.Clearly it comes down to the money and the numbers which you and I aren't privvy to see. Advertisers will pay the most money to the NHL for the highest ratings and clearly the league felt an Ovechkin/Toews&Kane game would give them maximum dollar.


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Re: 2015 Winter Classic: Chicago @ Washington

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:23 am

Kerfuffle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:I know LA hosted an outdoor game, but not a Winter Classic, it was a Stadium Series game. There is a difference.


Other than the name Winter Classic vs. Stadium Series there is no difference. Personally I think the league watered down the fun of the Winter Classic by adding the additional Stadium Series games. Just like there is only one Superbowl game a year I believe there should be only one Winter Classic per year.

And yes Parise and Suter are stars in Minnesota but they haven't won anything and are more known around the NHL for the ridiculous contracts they signed at 13 years a piece. The league knows that a Minnesota outdoor game will elicit a lot of yawns. Buffalo carries a NY market and given it was the first Winter Classic there was a lot of buzz for that so I don't think you can compare Minnesota with it.

I'm also not trying to say it's fair cause it isn't but this is one of those things where the league follows the money.


I get where you are coming from, definitely. I understand Parise/Suter aren't huge names outside of Minnesota (and NJ/Nashville). I get that the Wild aren't a nationally known 'brand.' I also understand that NBC would probably take a ratings hit centering a game around the Wild. I do understand that.

My request is that the NHL ignores all of that and rewards and entire state/region/city/fanbase for their dedication to THE SPORT. Not the NHL, the sport as a whole. How many NHLer's have come out of Minnesota? How many hockey fans, not just NHL fans, reside in that state? My point is that the NHL should do a bit of goodwill to that area in this regard. I mean, a Wild vs. Stars game outdoors in Minneapolis would be phenomenal to me as a hockey fan. Forget all the business and ratings.
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