Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3 yrs

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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ViPeRx007 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:28 pm

If I had any say, I'd just refuse to trade Sobotka now. He ditched out on us, so I'm going to prevent him from playing in the NHL anywhere. Of course, he could decide to just join the Blues, but I'd be damn sure that he's got his head on straight before letting him on the ice, otherwise he can sit in a press box all season. Granted, it's not my $2.75m going out the window in that scenario, but it might be worth it to further the club's stance that we aren't just going to cave to idiots.

Maybe I'm being petty, but it's sort of like being a parent. You can't just give your kids what they want all the time, especially when they go into full-on tantrum mode. If you do, they turn into entitled brats.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ComradeT » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:16 pm

not_a_wings_fan wrote:
glen a richter wrote:
not_a_wings_fan wrote:
ViPeRx007 wrote:
drwoland wrote:Based on the Omsk GM's comments calling Sobotka's 4m salary "tall tales," as well as some of Army's comments, I am guessing what happened is this: Sobotka wanted to be treated as a 2nd line guy on the Blues and be paid accordingly. When that didn't pan out, he got a credible offer from a KHL team and then inflated the salary he was being offered. The Blues thought "Well, if we concede every time someone threatens to go to the KHL, then Schwartz, Tank, and literally everyone else will just do the same thing, so we have to make it clear that we will not be bluffed." So they said "Go for it." And now Sobotka has to go play in the Russian heartland, just north of Kazakhstan for presumably much less than $4m/year, but the Blues come out as an organization not to be trifled with.

I'll take it. Here's to a breakout year for Ott, Berglund, and Lehtera.


Sobotka is going to feel pretty dumb when we're hoisting the cup next summer and he's falling out of the sky in secondhand planes or getting shot down by Ukrainian rebels.
Fixed for accuracy.


Too soon bro, too soon.
...it's just the Ukrainian version of the events currently supported by the US .


FTFY
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:25 pm

Yep, let's slap Sobotka's hand (assuming he cares; no evidence he does; he's not from North America)...but give a raise to Berglund for...uh...what again? Oh, right-very limited player, an eternal prospect significantly underperforming considering his physical gifts and draft position but hey-he DID just take whatever the Blues offered him. Which makes sense, as nobody was rushing to give that guy a $4M/per offer sheet.

Meanwhile, in a "definitely not rationalization" move, many Blues fans are now finding reasons to think Ott may be a useful addition to the roster.

I just can't do the "root for laundry" thing.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:36 pm

ComradeT wrote:
not_a_wings_fan wrote:
glen a richter wrote:
not_a_wings_fan wrote:
ViPeRx007 wrote:
drwoland wrote:Based on the Omsk GM's comments calling Sobotka's 4m salary "tall tales," as well as some of Army's comments, I am guessing what happened is this: Sobotka wanted to be treated as a 2nd line guy on the Blues and be paid accordingly. When that didn't pan out, he got a credible offer from a KHL team and then inflated the salary he was being offered. The Blues thought "Well, if we concede every time someone threatens to go to the KHL, then Schwartz, Tank, and literally everyone else will just do the same thing, so we have to make it clear that we will not be bluffed." So they said "Go for it." And now Sobotka has to go play in the Russian heartland, just north of Kazakhstan for presumably much less than $4m/year, but the Blues come out as an organization not to be trifled with.

I'll take it. Here's to a breakout year for Ott, Berglund, and Lehtera.


Sobotka is going to feel pretty dumb when we're hoisting the cup next summer and he's falling out of the sky in secondhand planes or getting shot down by Ukrainian rebels.
Fixed for accuracy.


Too soon bro, too soon.
...it's just the Ukrainian version of the events currently supported by the US .


FTFY


Indeed.

Something everyone should keep in mind from that is: apparently no small number of airlines will fly you right through a war zone where scores of military plans have been shot down so that they don't have to alter their flight paths and burn more fuel. That's insane.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:46 am

ecbm wrote:Yep, let's slap Sobotka's hand (assuming he cares; no evidence he does; he's not from North America)...but give a raise to Berglund for...uh...what again? Oh, right-very limited player, an eternal prospect significantly underperforming considering his physical gifts and draft position but hey-he DID just take whatever the Blues offered him. Which makes sense, as nobody was rushing to give that guy a $4M/per offer sheet.

Meanwhile, in a "definitely not rationalization" move, many Blues fans are now finding reasons to think Ott may be a useful addition to the roster.

I just can't do the "root for laundry" thing.


I don't think anybody is excited Ott is back. But, many of us will root for whomever is wearing the note. He's wearing the note, so time to root for him. While I do think too much has been made out of how bad this is (he's a 4th liner), my support for him is much more of a "he's on the Blues" nature than it is a "Steve Ott is awesome" nature. And, I suspect that holds true for many. I don't care how bad a player is. If he's on the Blues, I'll root for him.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:07 pm

cardsfan04 wrote:
ecbm wrote:Yep, let's slap Sobotka's hand (assuming he cares; no evidence he does; he's not from North America)...but give a raise to Berglund for...uh...what again? Oh, right-very limited player, an eternal prospect significantly underperforming considering his physical gifts and draft position but hey-he DID just take whatever the Blues offered him. Which makes sense, as nobody was rushing to give that guy a $4M/per offer sheet.

Meanwhile, in a "definitely not rationalization" move, many Blues fans are now finding reasons to think Ott may be a useful addition to the roster.

I just can't do the "root for laundry" thing.


I don't think anybody is excited Ott is back. But, many of us will root for whomever is wearing the note. He's wearing the note, so time to root for him. While I do think too much has been made out of how bad this is (he's a 4th liner), my support for him is much more of a "he's on the Blues" nature than it is a "Steve Ott is awesome" nature. And, I suspect that holds true for many. I don't care how bad a player is. If he's on the Blues, I'll root for him.


I always root for the Blues, I always want them to win. I'll root for any Blues player in a game because he has the potential to help the Blues win. We agree there. Still, I can't allow myself to be completely inconsistent in my evaluation of players based solely on for what team they play. I never liked Maxim Lapierre-he's a dirty, cheap-shotting, non-hockey-playing douche who constantly chirps at everyone but never fights and has bad manscaping. I didn't like him in Montreal, I didn't like him in Vancouver and I don't really like him now. I do want him to do the best for the Blues when he's on the ice, of course, but I worry also about him bringing disrepute on the club and also about his total lack of attacking end skills causing problems.

What really works me up is people letting the club think for them. "Well, they signed Ott so there must be some upside there. Why believe my lying eyes?" -several Blues fans I specifically remember ripping the guy up and down in the spring. I have a feeling if Miller were re-signed I'd be seeing a full on rehabilitation of him among Blues' fans. Whereas in reality, to hear them speak of the guy these days you'd never realize he was a goalie who started for USA and won a Vezina. I can't just turn on a dime like that.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby glen a richter » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:31 pm

I think a general thing about St. Louis fans is the tendency to overrate the players simply because they play in St. Louis. It's a sports town for sure, but I don't think enough fans are critical enough of the underperformers. Now that's not really an issue here. If a guy sucks, we all pretty much agree. No one is saying Berglund is the best thing to hit town since sliced bread, but in general there is a severe lack of criticism for those guys who deserve the criticism.

If Ott shows up this season and does wonderful things, I'll give kudos to Armstrong. If Berglund does likewise, I'll give more kudos to Armstrong. Until then, I hate both these signings. I support them because they wear the note, but that's as far as it goes.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cprice12 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:48 pm

The one thing that Ott has going for him is that he was playing hurt last year, which supposedly really hurt his performance.
Assuming that is true, he is healthy now...and he really should have been much better than he was last year. So logic says Ott should be significantly better this year than last.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ViPeRx007 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:37 pm

cprice12 wrote:The one thing that Ott has going for him is that he was playing hurt last year, which supposedly really hurt his performance.
Assuming that is true, he is healthy now...and he really should have been much better than he was last year. So logic says Ott should be significantly better this year than last.


Better, yes. Significantly so? I have a hard time seeing that. Hopefully he proves me wrong.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:17 am

cprice12 wrote:The one thing that Ott has going for him is that he was playing hurt last year, which supposedly really hurt his performance.


I really don't like excuses and I especially don't like this one in sports.

If he was too hurt to perform he should have admitted it, sat and let a healthy younger player who can go 100% take his shifts. If he's healthy enough to allow the team to assign him the responsibility of playing I don't want to hear this. Just play better this season. Stop with the excuses.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cardsfan04 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:56 am

ecbm wrote:
cprice12 wrote:The one thing that Ott has going for him is that he was playing hurt last year, which supposedly really hurt his performance.


I really don't like excuses and I especially don't like this one in sports.

If he was too hurt to perform he should have admitted it, sat and let a healthy younger player who can go 100% take his shifts. If he's healthy enough to allow the team to assign him the responsibility of playing I don't want to hear this. Just play better this season. Stop with the excuses.


And if he does that, "That pansy took himself out of the lineup." It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Oaklandblue » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:16 am

cardsfan04 wrote:
ecbm wrote:
cprice12 wrote:The one thing that Ott has going for him is that he was playing hurt last year, which supposedly really hurt his performance.


I really don't like excuses and I especially don't like this one in sports.

If he was too hurt to perform he should have admitted it, sat and let a healthy younger player who can go 100% take his shifts. If he's healthy enough to allow the team to assign him the responsibility of playing I don't want to hear this. Just play better this season. Stop with the excuses.


And if he does that, "That pansy took himself out of the lineup." It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.


Stat-Wise, Ott's been "playing hurt" for 3-5 years now. I think it's age, injuries and his skillset starting to degrade. He's already hit his ceiling and his stats show a steady decline. I don't see him having much gas left in the tank.

It's not Ott's job to say he's taking himself out of the game. He wants to play. It's up to the coach to bench him if he ain't performing and Hitch seems to like the guy. Probably because he was a Star. That probably didn't cross anyone's minds. Or maybe it did. Just pointing it out.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Misc. Blues » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:55 pm

Hitch never coached Ott with the Stars.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cprice12 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:41 am

ecbm wrote:
cprice12 wrote:The one thing that Ott has going for him is that he was playing hurt last year, which supposedly really hurt his performance.


I really don't like excuses and I especially don't like this one in sports.

If he was too hurt to perform he should have admitted it, sat and let a healthy younger player who can go 100% take his shifts. If he's healthy enough to allow the team to assign him the responsibility of playing I don't want to hear this. Just play better this season. Stop with the excuses.


If he was really hurt, then it isn't an excuse. It's a reason.
Saying you don't like excuses implies that the reason is actually a lie that is used to cover up the real reason behind under-performing.
Maybe it's an excuse...or maybe it's the truth.

But yeah, I hear you. If you are hurt to the point where you are hurting the team when you are out there...then you shouldn't be playing.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:12 am

I have more confidence in people who look to improve on poor performance than those who look to rationalize or excuse or explain it away. At Ott's age, on a new and very different team with higher expectations-just licking his wounds this summer won't have him showing up in October and contributing. I think that's gonna take some work. He's a veteran so I expect he gets that. This is part of why I don't like Berglund's deal. He's still young and might just take it into his head that last season was good enough. Not even close.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cardsfan04 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:12 pm

ecbm wrote:I have more confidence in people who look to improve on poor performance than those who look to rationalize or excuse or explain it away. At Ott's age, on a new and very different team with higher expectations-just licking his wounds this summer won't have him showing up in October and contributing. I think that's gonna take some work. He's a veteran so I expect he gets that. This is part of why I don't like Berglund's deal. He's still young and might just take it into his head that last season was good enough. Not even close.


I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I haven't heard Ott make any excuses. And, I don't think it's that far out there to think a player will perform better while healthy than injured.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:12 pm

cardsfan04 wrote:
ecbm wrote:I have more confidence in people who look to improve on poor performance than those who look to rationalize or excuse or explain it away. At Ott's age, on a new and very different team with higher expectations-just licking his wounds this summer won't have him showing up in October and contributing. I think that's gonna take some work. He's a veteran so I expect he gets that. This is part of why I don't like Berglund's deal. He's still young and might just take it into his head that last season was good enough. Not even close.


I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I haven't heard Ott make any excuses. And, I don't think it's that far out there to think a player will perform better while healthy than injured.


Understood and, sure, he definitely should play better healthy. I'm not arguing against common sense.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ViPeRx007 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:40 pm

Does Ott = Sobokta?

If we get this Ott:
2008-2009 Stars 64 19 27 46 3 135 5 0 0 132 14.4
2009-2010 Stars 73 22 14 36 -14 153 8 1 2 146 15.1
2010-2011 Stars 82 12 20 32 -9 183 3 2 4 120 10.0
2011-2012 Stars 74 11 28 39 5 156 4 0 2 108 10.2

Yes. You could even argue he'd be an upgrade.

However, If we get this Ott:
2012-2013 Sabres 48 9 15 24 3 93 2 0 3 73 12.3
2013-2014 Sabres 59 9 11 20 -26 55 6 0 1 99 9.1
2013-2014 Blues 23 0 3 3 -12 37 0 0 0 28 0.0

Not so much. The solace I take is that those were terrible Sabres teams and he wasn't playing as many games. I hope he can stay healthy, if that's really the issue, and it's not just a natural decline.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cprice12 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:50 pm

ecbm wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
ecbm wrote:I have more confidence in people who look to improve on poor performance than those who look to rationalize or excuse or explain it away. At Ott's age, on a new and very different team with higher expectations-just licking his wounds this summer won't have him showing up in October and contributing. I think that's gonna take some work. He's a veteran so I expect he gets that. This is part of why I don't like Berglund's deal. He's still young and might just take it into his head that last season was good enough. Not even close.


I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I haven't heard Ott make any excuses. And, I don't think it's that far out there to think a player will perform better while healthy than injured.


Understood and, sure, he definitely should play better healthy. I'm not arguing against common sense.


The trick for him will be to stay healthy.
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