Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3 yrs

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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Toasted Oates » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:39 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
APOD wrote:It floors me that some of you guys think that the loss of Sobotka and the signing of Ott is going to cost this team a cup :facepalm:


I don't think it will cost us a Cup. Boat was one of my favorite players. On nights when the whole team was off, who was the guy that was still playing his balls off? Boat. Lest we also forget, he actually had 1 more point than Berglund last year, and played with way more of an edge than #21.

Ott, is a different story. I was going to create two threads, one for each signing, but the way it played out in real time today, it was hard to separate the issues. I'm not boiling this down to a 'Ott was signed to replace Boat' sort of thing. Obviously they play different roles on this team.

But Ott was putrid for us. No two ways to put it. I just read a tweet from JR that Ott said he wsa playing with a sports hernia the last few months of the season. Does that change my opinion of his performance? Maybe a little. But there are some on here who got after Jax a few years ago for playing hurt and sucking, so should I lessen my criticism of Ott because he was injured? I don't know.

Ultimately, I'll calm down about this. I didn't want him back. He's back, I'm not happy. But he's got time to show his true colors and maybe he will, and if he does, I'll admit I was wrong.

Same here 100%. And I understand Schwartz will have to get his $$ eventually. I just don't understand the raise that Berglund got considering the pennies the Blues had to pinch in 17's negotiations. Yeah, Armstrong offered him this and that and he turned it down....I'll still miss watching him play. I get Boat's "scrappiness" may make him a tad overrated, at least in my eyes. Go get your paper, man.

I'd rather have Sobotka than Berglund, that's just me being a crybaby. Despite that, I hope BergDog scores 25 goals and I will happily feel more stupid than I already am. Can't wait till October.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott; 2 year deal

Postby APOD » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:25 pm



Army really did try.

APOD wrote:Honest question who else in free agency right now should we have signed for 2.5 mil or less?


Michal Handzus- No thanks
Scott Gomez- No thanks
Derek Roy- Not for the money we signed Ott and everyone would be just as pissed
Saku Koivu- Could work but still more pay and may not even be avaliable also offensive minded Army wanted grit(Boat/Ott)

I honestly think Army did the best he could today with what he had avaliable to him. Guess we still have Philip McRae in Chicago with all that grit and raw talent if we need him.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Electric Blue » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:49 pm

I'm kinda in shock now. Didn't see this coming. So here's a question I'll bring up, especially to those that have been out to the MIlls...

Does this potentially open a spot for Fabbri this year?
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby dmiles2186 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:25 pm

Electric Blue wrote:I'm kinda in shock now. Didn't see this coming. So here's a question I'll bring up, especially to those that have been out to the MIlls...

Does this potentially open a spot for Fabbri this year?


From all accounts I've read, Fabbri is headed back to Jr's this year regardless. But Jaskin and Rattie are another story. They may not get a full time gig, but they're the ones who benefit from this.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby glen a richter » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:11 pm

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#O%HUQ T$

Postby WaukeeBlues » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:57 pm

GOD F$%*($^T DAMRT#$(QT$

WHAT THE HOLY F@($T^$#QY SKHGA

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U#%HO

Postby WaukeeBlues » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:59 pm

I don't give a royal flying f*ck if Sobotka was asking $3 million a year or $10 million a year that doesn't mean you go out and pay a steaming pile of dog $hit $2.5 million a season to turn the puck over in your own zone and take stupid @$$ penalties.

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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby WaukeeBlues » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:07 pm

Oh, and for anyone wondering, we now have a grand total of $3.5 in cap space to re-sign Schwartz.

BUT DON'T WORRY BECAUSE STEVE OTT IS BACK!!!!
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby flyingnote38 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:23 pm

not sure which is worse losing Sobotka or retaining Ott......
actually its not that hard
retaining Ott because
1) we voluntarily did this
2) he sucks
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Oaklandblue » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:26 pm

When Sobotka asks for 4m a year, YOU GIVE HIM FOUR MILLION A YEAR. This isn't rocket science.

Can't afford anyone else? DON'T SIGN OTT AND BERGY. Suddenly you can afford Boat and Schwartz. Had Army offered one million more, we wouldn't be having this discussion in my mind.

But Boat is gone, so no crying over that even though that incenses me, and no, I don't want Army fired, we're still rolling along.

While this may sound insane, barring any relapses or additional BS, instead of signing crap like Ott and Bergy, why not just sign Mike Riberio? Issue child, yes he is, but he's a bonafide second line center if not a halfway decent first line center. Granted, he's a guy with issues but this is his last chance and I think if Hitch crawls up his behind, he'll be okay in the lockerroom. I seriously believe the Yotes have a bone to pick with the guy that borderlines on unfair, especially since the Caps loved him.

My point in this is, there are other options than fuggin Ott and Bergy. I love you Army, but on this one: Fail.

The ONE silver lining in this is that since Boat iirc is an UFA with the NHL and can't sign with another team, I envision that we somehow sign him back before the trade deadline or next season. I don't feel the Boat's story is over in the STL. I feel he'll be back, and I really hope that feeling comes to be.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Krigloch the Furious » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:12 pm

Im sad. Boat was a beast
Ott sucks, Berglund is even WORSE!
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby WaukeeBlues » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:27 pm

Oaklandblue wrote:... DON'T SIGN OTT AND BERGY. Suddenly you can afford Boat and Schwartz...


THIS. A million times this.

I'd rather have Sobotka and Schwartz on my team, for twice the price, than Berglund and Ott. And it's not even close.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby Robb_K » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:41 am

I'll discuss Sobotka's not re-signing with The Blues, here, together with the re-signing of Ott, because the latter event only happened because of the former.

I'm unhappy that Sobotka didn't re-sign, and chose to go to The KHL mostly because I wanted the image of The Blues around The NHL to be a team where the players are treated well, players and management have a reputation of having a solid, good relationship, and The Blues known as a team for whom players want to play. That reputation shouldn't be diminished much, as it is clear that the money offered by Armstrong was adequate and reasonable, and that the issue was strictly personal with Sobotka.

Sobotka was very glad to come to The Blues from Boston, because he had had no chance to show what he could do with that team, as there was no room for him to have a regular spot. On The Blues, he played well, and showed what he could do. THEn, this off-season, The Blues overloaded with forwards, upgrading so greatly, that he has likely has been pushed back down to a part-time role, AND part-time only-and bouncing between lower lines than last season (e.g. between 4 and 3, rather than 3 and 2. This is a step back in his career, EVEN if he could, for the first time, be a member of a true Stan;ey Cup competing team, and, if all goes right, a Stanley Cup winner.

Despite the apparent setback to his career efforts, he could have made the decision to bite that bullet, and sign with The Blues for $2.7 million (and take home $1.8 million, rather than signing for $ 3.5 million in Russia, and taking home about $2.7 million), and have a chance to be on a Stanley Cup Winner, show he's very loyal, and show The Blues he can deal with adversity, giving him a chance to "shine" in the lesser role, and making a big impression on Blues' management, for his potential UFA re-signing, or moving on to other teams to sell his loyalty and plug on under difficult circumstances attitude, as a selling point to other organisations,

I am disappointed that Sobotka didn't take the 2nd path. But, I fully understand that he felt that going to The KHL rather than accept the lesser chance to show what he can do on a high level was a better move for his career, at this point. Getting the extra $ million (after taxes) was just a bonus, but not the real reason he bolted. He had thought he had made a place on The Blues, and Blues' management "showed disloyalty to him, by bringing in several better players, and pushing him back down to fighting for a lesser place on The Blues". He didn't like that, and probably felt subconsciously, that The Blues were now being "disloyal" to him, by "tossing him out of the position he had won for himself".

As to the re-signing of Ott. I liked his stepping up of his play in the playoffs. I welcome having him as an extra asset in case of injury, and to use in the playoffs. But, at the same time, I don't like the fact that he will likely take games away from the young, developing players, and the chance to get them better integrated into the team. I'm sort of neutral on his re-signing, knowing that Sobotka was going to be gone either way.

If it were a choice The Blues could make as to having Sobotka back or having Ott in his place, I'd take Sonbotka. If it is a choice to fill Sobotka's roster spot with Ott at $2.6 million for 2 years, or another player, it would depend upon who the other player is.

If it were a choice to re-sign Ott at $1.7 million for 1 year or another player, it would be easier for me to choose Ott than at the current terms.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott; 2 year deal

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:44 am

dmiles2186 wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:WTF? I've been a big Armie supporter. But he really (Frank) this one up. I mean, we don't know the details of how this all went down, but on the surface Armie looks really bad.


I don't know. I saw that Boat was asking 4m a year. If that's so, my guess is the KHL offered him a lot of money, he brought that to the Blues to match, and they didn't want to do it.

Just a total guess. As much as I love Boat, 4M per is way too much for him.


They posted tweets from JR on the PD forum that it was only a $300K difference! Sobotka only wanted $3M for 1 year! Makes Armstrong look like an even bigger dummy!
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott; 2 year deal

Postby ComradeT » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:10 am

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:WTF? I've been a big Armie supporter. But he really (Frank) this one up. I mean, we don't know the details of how this all went down, but on the surface Armie looks really bad.


I don't know. I saw that Boat was asking 4m a year. If that's so, my guess is the KHL offered him a lot of money, he brought that to the Blues to match, and they didn't want to do it.

Just a total guess. As much as I love Boat, 4M per is way too much for him.


They posted tweets from JR on the PD forum that it was only a $300K difference! Sobotka only wanted $3M for 1 year! Makes Armstrong look like an even bigger dummy!


He will earn $4.3mm in KHL, which is a pre-tax equivalent of ~$8mm in NHL. I really think his move was about money just as much as about status.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cprice12 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:11 am

Sobotka wanting too much money and getting it in the KHL sucks, but it is what it is. He will be missed. But you can look at it this way...he had a career year, for him, last year. Does he repeat that? I'm not so sure. His body takes a severe beating out there and he is coming off of a knee injury. I totally get the Blues not wanting to overpay for him. Every player is a gamble to some degree, but to overpay for a guy like him is very risky.

The Ott signing isn't a horrible one. You guys need to calm down a bit, it was just the backup plan for a 3rd-4th line guy...so again, it is what it is.
Ott can go two different ways...he can rebound a bit from a down year, or he can continue to decline. I think he rebounds a bit...not a lot, but he should be better than last season. He should also produce more on the scoreboard this year. If he can pot 10+ goals and real in his bad +/- a tad (which isn't the norm for him, so it should improve), he'll be fine. He adds some toughness/grit that folks were complaining about that we no longer had enough of after Polak was traded. And to be honest, I like the kind player that other teams can't stand. Sure, I'd hate him if he were on another team, but that's the way it works.

Out of all of this, the thing I like the least is the Berglund signing. It seems they overpaid. Yes, the potential is there...it has been for years. But he is very streaky and his bad streaks can last half a season or more. I think this is a gamble. It seems odd that they were so concerned about not overpaying for Sobotka, but then seemingly overpaid for Berglund and to a lesser degree, maybe Ott.

I'm not too concerned though. If this franchise has been anything, it's been frugal with it's money. They don't senselessly throw around money and overpay for guys left and right. They have taken a page out of the Cardinals book and are spending some money, but have been VERY, VERY smart about it.
If this ownership had a recent history of overpaying for a bunch of guys who didn't pan out and getting into cap issues because of it...I'd be worried. But they can't afford to do that, so they have been cautiously smart and spent the right money on the right players. So I'll defer to their judgement and previous track record...and hopefully things will pan out just fine.
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:58 am

Ott got his millions for that slick no look behind the back pass in the playoffs that led to NOTHING! :lol:
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby glen a richter » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:13 am

Just out of curiosity jne, how long have you been a Hawks fan?
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby ecbm » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:14 am

So: $4M (actually maybe $3M depending on who you believe) is too much for Sobotka in a league where Dave Bolland will get $27.5M over five seasons and Benoit Pouliot will get $20M over 5 seasons.

BUT

Giving $2.6M for Ott for multiple years maybe isn't an overpay in a league where you can get Jay McClement on a one-year deal for $1M. For the record, I have no tolerance for underperformers who excuse themselves by claiming injury after the fact. If you're healthy enough to play, you're healthy enough to have expectations placed on you. By the way, everyone enjoying Army's (Hitch's too I imagine) abiding fascination with aging ex-Stars who sit the bench for 45-50 minutes every game and guarantee younger players not getting a look because of their veteran status and relatively large contracts? /rant

As for "maybe the moves aren't related" - Armstrong suggested it himself.

The whole KHL thing rings like hollow rhetoric a la "we don't negotiate with terrorists." In any business you need to be aware of the possibility of your personnel being poached by competitors from anywhere. Again, NHL salary structure itself suggests Boat wasn't asking too much especially after the Blues enjoyed his services at below-market rate for a couple seasons and gave comparable (more?) money to an inferior player in Berglund.

I am a betting man and I'd bet a significant amount right now that Sobotka never plays in the NHL again. He's from Europe and has a lucrative contract in a country with significantly lower taxes that takes him through his age 30 season. Not all European hockey players are as enamored of the NHL as North Americans tend to think.

cprice12 wrote:Ott can go two different ways...he can rebound a bit from a down year, or he can continue to decline.


Can you not see how the fact that their reckoning of Sobotka was done with so very different criteria might be maddening to some? You don't think Berglund and Ott are overpaid? Pro sports is very much a "what-are-you-doing-for-me-right-now kind of business. I'll take the opportunity to point out that Armstrong has brought this club exactly as many Stanley Cups as any other GM and fewer playoff series wins than several. Just sayin'...
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Re: Blues re-sign Steve Ott, 2 yrs; Sobotka to Omsk (KHL), 3

Postby cprice12 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:10 pm

ecbm wrote:So: $4M (actually maybe $3M depending on who you believe) is too much for Sobotka in a league where Dave Bolland will get $27.5M over five seasons and Benoit Pouliot will get $20M over 5 seasons.

BUT

Giving $2.6M for Ott for multiple years maybe isn't an overpay in a league where you can get Jay McClement on a one-year deal for $1M. For the record, I have no tolerance for underperformers who excuse themselves by claiming injury after the fact. If you're healthy enough to play, you're healthy enough to have expectations placed on you. By the way, everyone enjoying Army's (Hitch's too I imagine) abiding fascination with aging ex-Stars who sit the bench for 45-50 minutes every game and guarantee younger players not getting a look because of their veteran status and relatively large contracts? /rant

As for "maybe the moves aren't related" - Armstrong suggested it himself.

The whole KHL thing rings like hollow rhetoric a la "we don't negotiate with terrorists." In any business you need to be aware of the possibility of your personnel being poached by competitors from anywhere. Again, NHL salary structure itself suggests Boat wasn't asking too much especially after the Blues enjoyed his services at below-market rate for a couple seasons and gave comparable (more?) money to an inferior player in Berglund.

I am a betting man and I'd bet a significant amount right now that Sobotka never plays in the NHL again. He's from Europe and has a lucrative contract in a country with significantly lower taxes that takes him through his age 30 season. Not all European hockey players are as enamored of the NHL as North Americans tend to think.

cprice12 wrote:Ott can go two different ways...he can rebound a bit from a down year, or he can continue to decline.


Can you not see how the fact that their reckoning of Sobotka was done with so very different criteria might be maddening to some? You don't think Berglund and Ott are overpaid? Pro sports is very much a "what-are-you-doing-for-me-right-now kind of business. I'll take the opportunity to point out that Armstrong has brought this club exactly as many Stanley Cups as any other GM and fewer playoff series wins than several. Just sayin'...


Dave Bolland's contract was laughed at by everyone because it was a ridiculous price to pay for him.
I'm not going to say Sobotka is worth more simply because someone decided to pay Dave Bolland over $5 million per. Dave Bolland isn't worth that much...so using it as leverage for a Sobotka contract or in an argument as a reason why Armstrong should have paid Sobotka more is disingenuous.

With that said... I feel Berglund is overpaid now. (I said that before...you must have missed it) But Army apparently disagrees, otherwise he wouldn't have signed him to that contract.
Ott being overpaid is debatable. If he rebounds a bit, he'll be worth the money.

Let's put this whole thing into perspective...
People are upset Sobotka is gone and we have Ott instead. This is a 3rd line dilema. It's not a 1st line crisis. Yes, Sobotka will be missed. But it's not like we lost Tarasenko and resigned Roy as his replacement.

We're still significantly better than we were last year.
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