Put on the cape: Blues GM wants more from Stastny

[Oaklandblue]

Linky: http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015 ... /#comments

All I will say is, $7m a year could have bought players with names like Pekka Rinne,
Pavel Datsyuk, Drew Doughty, etc.

I think my question is, beyond the Family Name(tm) does Paul bring that we don't already get from players like Schwartz, Tank, Steen, etc. beyond being a Centre?

7m could buy alot more than what we are so far getting and honestly what he seems to be capable of, in my eyes. Granted it doesn't help that his linemates have been as they are, but is this a guy who can really play on a top line and produce is my question?

[STLADOGG]

Ship off Backes. Make Paulie the Captain. Paul gets #1 Center role and a new leader. Bam there you go problem fixed.

[WaukeeBlues]

1) I don't think anyone expected Jori Lehtera to have had as big an impact on this team as he has had. His natural linemate Tarasenko is obviously too talented to be anywhere but top 1 or 2 lines. So that's one of your top two centers right there.

2) For better or worse, Steen-Backes-Oshie have largely clicked in the regular season when it comes to point production and chemistry. Also too talented to put anywhere but the top 2 lines.

3) Where does that leave Stastny? 3rd line. It's hard to knock the guy when he's relegated to 3rd line duty a majority of the season/playoffs. I don't think Stastny himself or the Blues anticipated that when he was brought on board. Having said that: I have never truly believed that Backes is a true NHL #1 center. He's not. Stastny is the closest thing we have but by the very nature of team chemistry and line combinations he can't play anywhere sooner but the 3rd line.

I'm still not opposed to trading any or all of Oshie/Backes/Steen. I seriously doubt it'll happen obviously but there's hope. If we move a center, Stastny will ride up the depth chart. If we don't (the likely scenario) then we have to hope that Stastny will have adjusted better by the time his second season with the new team comes around (as many big July 1 free agent signings do) and/or get more time on the power-play/PK, although I don't see him much as a PP quarterback

[glen a richter]

Stastny only really had a couple of solid seasons early in his career, otherwise has pretty much petered off. 7 mil for him was a mistake. The only reason we all got giddy over it was because he was the biggest name available and we got him. The only reason we got him was his natural connection to St. Louis. Retrospectively, it was a bad deal in more than one way. We get another good, not great, center and it costs a small fortune to do so.

As far as Lehtera, count me among those who said it would be a more important signing than the Stastny deal. Especially now coming into his sophomore season, I'm sure he'll be even better than he was in year one. Also because neither Tarasenko nor Schwartz have peaked, that entire line should be even better next season. They're not the line I'm worried about, it's the other three. Frankly, I'd trade Stastny right now if a good deal came along.

[ComradeT]

1) I don't think anyone expected Jori Lehtera to have had as big an impact on this team as he has had. His natural linemate Tarasenko is obviously too talented to be anywhere but top 1 or 2 lines. So that's one of your top two centers right there.

2) For better or worse, Steen-Backes-Oshie have largely clicked in the regular season when it comes to point production and chemistry. Also too talented to put anywhere but the top 2 lines.

3) Where does that leave Stastny? 3rd line. It's hard to knock the guy when he's relegated to 3rd line duty a majority of the season/playoffs. I don't think Stastny himself or the Blues anticipated that when he was brought on board. Having said that: I have never truly believed that Backes is a true NHL #1 center. He's not. Stastny is the closest thing we have but by the very nature of team chemistry and line combinations he can't play anywhere sooner but the 3rd line.

I'm still not opposed to trading any or all of Oshie/Backes/Steen. I seriously doubt it'll happen obviously but there's hope. If we move a center, Stastny will ride up the depth chart. If we don't (the likely scenario) then we have to hope that Stastny will have adjusted better by the time his second season with the new team comes around (as many big July 1 free agent signings do) and/or get more time on the power-play/PK, although I don't see him much as a PP quarterback

I really think "too talented" is a perception that's been forced by circumstance - Blues didn't have anyone better than those three for some time but when you compare them to other teams, they are not 1-2 line material. Speed is average, not that good at faceoffs, shooting accuracy (maybe aside from Steen) is so-so. They are a 2-3 line for a team like Chicago. Backes is more like Bickell, and Oshie is a slightly better version of Shaw (if better at all). Steen is kind of like Hossa. No way they are a top line on an elite team, that's just where they ended up for lack of better options. And that's the Blues' biggest problem - with all of the additions, they are still a one-line team. STL line can be that first line if Schwartz continues to progress and Lehtera matures after his first year in the NHL. But I'd be happy as punch if Oshie and/or Backes could be traded for an elite scorer who could pot 30-35 goals, so that we have at least a two-line scoring threat with Stastny/Steen/that guy becoming the second line. Who knows, maybe it's Jaskin and we don't need a trade but I doubt it as he's just not a natural scorer Tarasenko is.

I get the points about the regular season. Blues appear to have depth, etc. But as soon as other teams step up the forecheck, the supplemental scoring disappears (Oshie/Backes/Steen included) for the lack of skill required to escapeit, and as much as Senko tries, he can't do it all. Without a second natural scorer, the Blues will never make it. The Hawks may be dumb to lock in Kane and Toews to the monster contracts but having the two of them, able to play together or on separate lines, makes a world of difference.

[glen a richter]

I think Barbashev and Fabbri will make up 2/3rds of what will become a very special line. But that's pure speculation right now which is why I was intrigued when Larry Brooks mentioned Hitch perhaps enticing DA to trade for Rick Nash. I wasn't keen to the players he was suggesting going the other way though. Schwartz has to be untouchable. Oshie and Steen I'm not against being traded if the return is a guy who can score.

[ComradeT]

I think Barbashev and Fabbri will make up 2/3rds of what will become a very special line. But that's pure speculation right now which is why I was intrigued when Larry Brooks mentioned Hitch perhaps enticing DA to trade for Rick Nash. I wasn't keen to the players he was suggesting going the other way though. Schwartz has to be untouchable. Oshie and Steen I'm not against being traded if the return is a guy who can score.

Think Nash will want to come back and play in St. Louis after New York? I don't know too many people who move this direction. I thought of mentioning Fabbri and Barbashev but as you said Glen, that's pure speculation. Fabbri didn't impress me too much in his games for the Blues. He's surely not Kane/Towes caliber. Barbashev seems to have that dynamic scorer quality but he's so young.

I'd have somebody like Parise if he can be obtained from the wild. That would be pretty great. Afraid that boat is not going to dock any time soon.

[Oaklandblue]

I think Barbashev and Fabbri will make up 2/3rds of what will become a very special line. But that's pure speculation right now which is why I was intrigued when Larry Brooks mentioned Hitch perhaps enticing DA to trade for Rick Nash. I wasn't keen to the players he was suggesting going the other way though. Schwartz has to be untouchable. Oshie and Steen I'm not against being traded if the return is a guy who can score.

Think Nash will want to come back and play in St. Louis after New York? I don't know too many people who move this direction. I thought of mentioning Fabbri and Barbashev but as you said Glen, that's pure speculation. Fabbri didn't impress me too much in his games for the Blues. He's surely not Kane/Towes caliber. Barbashev seems to have that dynamic scorer quality but he's so young.

I'd have somebody like Parise if he can be obtained from the wild. That would be pretty great. Afraid that boat is not going to dock any time soon.

They may be good in a few years. We need help now. Bringing up prospects on a team with post-prospects won't move them forward. They need veteran leadership in their prime who have been all the way. Paid too much money for the wrong guy.

[glen a richter]

First, I don't think Nash has a say. As far as I know, he doesn't have a NTC and if the Rags trade him, they trade him. Second, he's played for Hitch and they like each other. I don't think he'd object to playing for him again.

[theohall]

Mercy. Please not Nash - especially if Schwartz is involved.

Why in hell would Nash be worth Oshie, Steen AND Schwartz? I don't get it. Steen is a very good two-way forward. Schwartz is on the rise. Oshie is a really good regular season guy (unfortunately) especially due to his shootout skills. No way is Nash worth all three of them. One of them and prospects? OK. But not three 1st/2nd line forwards for one first line forward who also disappears in the playoffs.

Nash used to be a 30 goal/year guy. He isn't that guy anymore and hasn't been for 4 years. Then there are the playoff numbers which are horrible.

Nash - 60 playoff games - 10 G, 22 A, 32 Pts. (.5 pts/ game, one G/10 games). How does that help when the Blues issue is playoff scoring?? Alex Steen already produces those numbers (31 GP, 6 G, 14 A). That's essentially the same stat line and someone wants to throw Oshie AND Schwartz into the mix for Alex Steen playoff numbers???? Consider the 60 GP, you know what you get from Nash in the playoffs - squat.

If the Blues makes this idiotic move with all of those caliber players involved, you might as well write this as "Garth Butcher trade, Part II."

[glen a richter]

Mercy. Please not Nash - especially if Schwartz is involved.

Why in hell would Nash be worth Oshie, Steen AND Schwartz? I don't get it. Steen is a very good two-way forward. Schwartz is on the rise. Oshie is a really good regular season guy (unfortunately) especially due to his shootout skills. No way is Nash worth all three of them. One of them and prospects? OK. But not three 1st/2nd line forwards for one first line forward who also disappears in the playoffs.

Nash used to be a 30 goal/year guy. He isn't that guy anymore and hasn't been for 4 years. Then there are the playoff numbers which are horrible.

Nash - 60 playoff games - 10 G, 22 A, 32 Pts. (.5 pts/ game, one G/10 games). How does that help when the Blues issue is playoff scoring?? Alex Steen already produces those numbers (31 GP, 6 G, 14 A). That's essentially the same stat line and someone wants to throw Oshie AND Schwartz into the mix for Alex Steen playoff numbers???? Consider the 60 GP, you know what you get from Nash in the playoffs - squat.

If the Blues makes this idiotic move with all of those caliber players involved, you might as well write this as "Garth Butcher trade, Part II."

Brooks is the one who said Schwartz. I'm on the record as saying I would absolutely not trade Schwartz, nor do I think any of us would. He's untouchable as far as I'm concerned.

[APOD]

First, I don't think Nash has a say. As far as I know, he doesn't have a NTC and if the Rags trade him, they trade him. Second, he's played for Hitch and they like each other. I don't think he'd object to playing for him again.

I'm not really even sure we are in the trade for Nash game but, if we are I could see backes(if waives NTC) or steen(who I would rather keep) and oshie moved Im sure there is another piece(s) there too.

But that still gets us tied up in 22mil in 3 players (figuring Senko gets 7mil a year long term deal and Rangers do not hold any salary) do we want that? Can we even do that?

Nash Stastny Backes(or steen)
Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko
Jaskin Ott Reaves
Paajarvi? Barbashev Rattie
Porter

Tampa is in the finals and only getting scoring from its top 2 lines, so its possible with a low producing 3rd and a questionable 4th to make it through the year and past a first round.


I like the idea of having playoff vets but the idea of targeting a smaller fish than Nash and reducing our cap hit again is appealing too. maybe a Oshie, berg and prospect package for JVR and Brendan Leipsic or Yakupov, Draisaitl and a pick for Oshie, Backes, Bouw

^obviously Im not a GM and Ive been playing too much NHL15 probaly lol

[glen a richter]

That 3rd line makes me want to vomit.

I do like the idea of putting Backes between Jaskin and Berglund and moving Stastny up to the 2nd line. He can do a lot more with Steener and Oshie than he could do with Berglund and Jaskin, no doubt. This is assuming Oshie doesn't get traded. I'm still of the mind that he and Bouwmeester will both be traded for picks the day of the draft. Lindbohm definitely will be getting himself a regular spot on the D and between Barbashev, Fabbri and Rattie I'm sure one of them, at least, makes the team in October.

I want to clarify, I'm not advocating (per se) for them to trade for Nash, and I'm certainly not advocating an overpay in talent going the other way. I am suggesting that if he could be had without trading Schwartz and if the money worked out, it's something to investigate. My preference would be for them to acquire someone who won't cost an arm and a leg but can still provide value, offensively. Our most likely trade partners, as far as I can tell, are Edmonton who has a glut of forwards, especially when they add McDavid to the mix, and Philly whose coach coached Oshie at North Dakota and would undoubtedly enjoy having him back at the NHL level. Both teams have two first round picks and may be willing to part with one, and in the case of Edmonton, they can't support all the forwards they have as it is, and armed with the knowledge that they'll probably have to trade someone, the asking price won't be quite as high as if they were just trading someone because they felt like making a trade. Guaranteed they'd be interested in Bouwmeester just because their defense is that thin.

[ecbm]

I'm between people's evaluations of 42-20-74. I think they're potentially a very good second line but I really think they should be broken up.

Stastny should be the second line center. Backes can take up the third line or, as I've advocated, convert back to a winger. That would at least make keeping Ott make a little bit of sense.

All I will say is, $7m a year could have bought players with names like Pekka Rinne,Pavel Datsyuk, Drew Doughty, etc.

No, it couldn't have. Because those guys never were and never would be available until they're old and broken down, or in a trade. That's part of why a high-end FA will always get a premium above the standard market.

I think my question is, beyond the Family Name(tm) does Paul bring that we don't already get from players like Schwartz, Tank, Steen, etc. beyond being a Centre?

I personally think he did pretty well considering he spent much of the season centering Berglund (12-15-27 in 77 games) & Lindstrom (3-3-6 in 34). Then there's the center thing which, yes, is a big deal and a role that has to be filled. And it's not true that "he had a couple nice years early in his career". He played 8 NHL seasons before the Blues signed him and scored 20 goals six times on a team that was mostly awful. The Blues overpaid slightly in dollars per but got a short term that I think most are forgetting here.

Ship off Backes. Make Paulie the Captain. Paul gets #1 Center role and a new leader. Bam there you go problem fixed.

I could live with that.

Steen-Backes-Oshie...too talented to put anywhere but the top 2 lines...Where does that leave Stastny? 3rd line.

Stastny is as talented as those three. Backes would not have performed any better with the wingers the Blues iced on the 3rd line.

Backes is more like Bickell

Really? See, now that's going too far. Backes has scored 30 goals in the NHL twice 20 on three other occasions. Bryan Bickell has never scored more than 17 goals in a season. Backes also plays 18+ minutes a night on avg vs. 12 for Bickell. Advanced stats also have Backes with a +1.7 Fenwick and 51.8% of his starts are in his zone vs. -2.8 and 49.2%. These aren't comparable players, though I do agree that Backes has been shoe-horned into a #1 center role. Remember, he came up as a winger and was shifted due to need.

And Nash? I'm sure NYR would love for the Blues to take that problem off their hands. Pass.

[APOD]

That 3rd line makes me want to vomit.

I do like the idea of putting Backes between Jaskin and Berglund and moving Stastny up to the 2nd line. He can do a lot more with Steener and Oshie than he could do with Berglund and Jaskin, no doubt. This is assuming Oshie doesn't get traded. I'm still of the mind that he and Bouwmeester will both be traded for picks the day of the draft. Lindbohm definitely will be getting himself a regular spot on the D and between Barbashev, Fabbri and Rattie I'm sure one of them, at least, makes the team in October.

I really think all too highly of that either just throwing out who we would potentially have left to make up our lines. That said Ott can play 3rd center and Reaves didn't look all too bad playing 3rd line the couple times he did, its nothing crazy but he did elevate his game this year. It wouldn't be too bad to start the young guys out with 4th line mins untill we find out who we are keeping in the mix the most, then if they can handle it they move up to 3rd line and Ott and co go back to the 4th line.

If we don't make big moves then I would hope we start playing people on the correct lines with correct min.

Imo Backes makes a good 3rd line center or second line wing.

Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko
Steen Stastny Backes

I wouldn't be mad if our top two lines looked like this

I still see oshie, berg and one of Gunnerson or Bouwmeester being moved this summer. For what though idk?

[Oaklandblue]

That 3rd line makes me want to vomit.

I do like the idea of putting Backes between Jaskin and Berglund and moving Stastny up to the 2nd line. He can do a lot more with Steener and Oshie than he could do with Berglund and Jaskin, no doubt. This is assuming Oshie doesn't get traded. I'm still of the mind that he and Bouwmeester will both be traded for picks the day of the draft. Lindbohm definitely will be getting himself a regular spot on the D and between Barbashev, Fabbri and Rattie I'm sure one of them, at least, makes the team in October.

I really think all too highly of that either just throwing out who we would potentially have left to make up our lines. That said Ott can play 3rd center and Reaves didn't look all too bad playing 3rd line the couple times he did, its nothing crazy but he did elevate his game this year. It wouldn't be too bad to start the young guys out with 4th line mins untill we find out who we are keeping in the mix the most, then if they can handle it they move up to 3rd line and Ott and co go back to the 4th line.

If we don't make big moves then I would hope we start playing people on the correct lines with correct min.

Imo Backes makes a good 3rd line center or second line wing.

Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko
Steen Stastny Backes

I wouldn't be mad if our top two lines looked like this

I still see oshie, berg and one of Gunnerson or Bouwmeester being moved this summer. For what though idk?

You know, the more I look at the lines from the earlier posts, the more I think we should go the other way and fill the bottom two lines with depth, not high-end talent but talent better than rookies, Paaj and Bergy. Reaves is the man and Stast is getting paid too much to not be surrounded with talent (which I didn't honestly realize until an earlier post, all things considering.)

It leaves us without a real true first line, but it would at least make up for the spotty depth and it wouldn't put the team in a seriously bad cap situation later on.

As for Nash and Bickell, oh hell no.

[ComradeT]

I'm between people's evaluations of 42-20-74. I think they're potentially a very good second line but I really think they should be broken up.

Stastny should be the second line center. Backes can take up the third line or, as I've advocated, convert back to a winger. That would at least make keeping Ott make a little bit of sense.

All I will say is, $7m a year could have bought players with names like Pekka Rinne,Pavel Datsyuk, Drew Doughty, etc.

No, it couldn't have. Because those guys never were and never would be available until they're old and broken down, or in a trade. That's part of why a high-end FA will always get a premium above the standard market.

I think my question is, beyond the Family Name(tm) does Paul bring that we don't already get from players like Schwartz, Tank, Steen, etc. beyond being a Centre?

I personally think he did pretty well considering he spent much of the season centering Berglund (12-15-27 in 77 games) & Lindstrom (3-3-6 in 34). Then there's the center thing which, yes, is a big deal and a role that has to be filled. And it's not true that "he had a couple nice years early in his career". He played 8 NHL seasons before the Blues signed him and scored 20 goals six times on a team that was mostly awful. The Blues overpaid slightly in dollars per but got a short term that I think most are forgetting here.

Ship off Backes. Make Paulie the Captain. Paul gets #1 Center role and a new leader. Bam there you go problem fixed.

I could live with that.

Steen-Backes-Oshie...too talented to put anywhere but the top 2 lines...Where does that leave Stastny? 3rd line.

Stastny is as talented as those three. Backes would not have performed any better with the wingers the Blues iced on the 3rd line.

Backes is more like Bickell

Really? See, now that's going too far. Backes has scored 30 goals in the NHL twice 20 on three other occasions. Bryan Bickell has never scored more than 17 goals in a season. Backes also plays 18+ minutes a night on avg vs. 12 for Bickell. Advanced stats also have Backes with a +1.7 Fenwick and 51.8% of his starts are in his zone vs. -2.8 and 49.2%. These aren't comparable players, though I do agree that Backes has been shoe-horned into a #1 center role. Remember, he came up as a winger and was shifted due to need.

And Nash? I'm sure NYR would love for the Blues to take that problem off their hands. Pass.

What I meant is that their skill level is comparable. The rest is speculative, as their in-game experiences have been different, as evidenced by the stats.

[ecbm]

What I meant is that their skill level is comparable. The rest is speculative, as their in-game experiences have been different, as evidenced by the stats.

Fair enough. Based on the eye test, I don't agree. Bickell has hands of stone compared to Backes and also isn't the defensive presence 42 is. Milan Lucic is the player I see as most comparable to Backes.

[APOD]

That 3rd line makes me want to vomit.

I do like the idea of putting Backes between Jaskin and Berglund and moving Stastny up to the 2nd line. He can do a lot more with Steener and Oshie than he could do with Berglund and Jaskin, no doubt. This is assuming Oshie doesn't get traded. I'm still of the mind that he and Bouwmeester will both be traded for picks the day of the draft. Lindbohm definitely will be getting himself a regular spot on the D and between Barbashev, Fabbri and Rattie I'm sure one of them, at least, makes the team in October.

I really think all too highly of that either just throwing out who we would potentially have left to make up our lines. That said Ott can play 3rd center and Reaves didn't look all too bad playing 3rd line the couple times he did, its nothing crazy but he did elevate his game this year. It wouldn't be too bad to start the young guys out with 4th line mins untill we find out who we are keeping in the mix the most, then if they can handle it they move up to 3rd line and Ott and co go back to the 4th line.

If we don't make big moves then I would hope we start playing people on the correct lines with correct min.

Imo Backes makes a good 3rd line center or second line wing.

Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko
Steen Stastny Backes

I wouldn't be mad if our top two lines looked like this

I still see oshie, berg and one of Gunnerson or Bouwmeester being moved this summer. For what though idk?

You know, the more I look at the lines from the earlier posts, the more I think we should go the other way and fill the bottom two lines with depth, not high-end talent but talent better than rookies, Paaj and Bergy. Reaves is the man and Stast is getting paid too much to not be surrounded with talent (which I didn't honestly realize until an earlier post, all things considering.)

It leaves us without a real true first line, but it would at least make up for the spotty depth and it wouldn't put the team in a seriously bad cap situation later on.

As for Nash and Bickell, oh hell no.

I agree! I would like to see what Barbashev, Fabbri, Rattie and ect bring to the table, but I don't expect much this year from them besides some good looks throughout the season. If someone takes flight and makes a huge impresion great.

Imo I think going after Edmonton for Yakapov and another depth center would be good or Toronto for JVR and I really like Brendan Leipsic, I think he would make a great Steve Ott replacement. He is gritty, plays on the edge, gets under your skin and plays the body, but unlike Steve Ott he scores goals too.

^again might not be possible and names are just being thrown out there.

My point is I don't think we have to spend to the cap and sign a high dollar free agent or make a huge trade thats going to cost us big cap wise. I think if we look at 2/3 line wingers and experienced depth at center(guys with 1 year left on their contracts) and still shake up the old core a little(move oshie and bergland, play steen and backes on seperate lines) I think it works out in our favor we still have a strong team, guys that still play for the coach, and room under the cap for important 2016/17 signings.

[Nyghtewynd]

Well I want more out of the Blues coach/GM/owner, and no one seems to give a crap about that, soooooooo...