Is it too soon for me to give up on next season?

[flyingnote38]

A very disappointing start (finish?) to the offseason. One week in you could see nothing was going to happen. No one was going to be held accountable.

That Armstrong was calling the shots on who the 2015-6 coach would be was bad enough, but then he left the decision up to Hitchcock. So we get the "dream team" back -- entire front office and coaching staff retained.

Armstrong mentions he realizes speed is important. The solution? Current Blues are going to "play faster." Hitch is going to suddenly become a different style of coach.

Then we get the one "big" move of the offseason -- Oshie for Brouwer. That's the on ice swap. And here's what Army has to say about acquiring Brouwer:

"Armstrong wants the Blues to be able to "wear teams down on a nightly basis." In the Western Conference, he said, you have to play with "size and weight."
"I just think that size is something you can't teach," he said. "It makes us a more difficult team to play against.""

This sounds a lot more like the old game plan of the last 4 years, than the new and improved speed oriented Blues. The "more difficult to play against" line ought to make you want to vomit. This is of course what Army says about Steve Ott and is Exhibit A that Army should be fired. Now Brouwer is not Steve Ott. Brouwer can actually play hockey. Brouwer really is not a bad pickup; he really is a guy who could play on any of the top three lines and not be out of place. I remember a lot of unhappy Hawks fans when they dealt Brouwer to the Caps for the #26 pick. But as the only move? And for the reasons Army gave?

Cleary Army equates trading skill for grit as becoming "tougher to play against." Until we have a GM that understands what is important to winning hockey, we have no chance.

The move Army made that actually makes us better is signing Brodziak. This signing underscores just how horrible the Ott contract is. For what Ott makes, we could have three Brodziaks (which actually would be a pretty damn good 4th line).

What remains this offseason:

Musts: sign Tarasenko and Allen

No Tank = no playoffs.

Pipe dreams: buyout or deal Ott for anything or even throw in a late round pick just to get rid of him.
(Fire Hitch. Fire Army.)
Take a flyer on a skill guy who is on the scrap heap with a low value earn your way back contract ($1 for Mike Richards? e.g.)

[cardsfan04]

yes it is

[The Flake]

Way too early. Army still has a lot of work to do but this "the sky is falling" attitude is a bunch of crap. We are a team that can win now. Couple things need to happen.

Jettison Ott / Bergland for whatever you can get out of them. They are both legitimate NHL players even if they aren't the greatest. The only issue with them are their contracts and I blame Army for shelling out too much dough.

Find a trade partner for Bow. He has to go as well and bring up some youth.

Totally rework 4th line. Brodziak is a good start.

[WaukeeBlues]

TSN reporting we've re-signed Allen as well.

If you read a lot of my posts on this board you know I'm not one to be optimistic about this team right now. I couldn't have said it better myself about ownership/top brass keeping both Armstrong and Hitchcock around. In a "win now" league the patience level being afforded to these two guys is outright baffling.

I begged for a trade even just to get a new face in the locker room that hasn't been part of this "core group" of playoff failure and while the Oshie trade isn't a lights out move, it's a good trade, in my humble opinion.

Maybe as the season goes along if the team is struggling Hitch gets fired. Maybe we make a few more trades that get more of the "old guard" off of this team. It's too early to give up. Regardless, void of some major moves, I'm picking the Blues to lose in 6 in the first round again, regardless of who they're facing. They're just so good at it.

[goon attack]

I say hell no. This team is solid as is. They just need a spark, an attitude adjustment, something, to get them over the mental hurdle. A few fresh faces, another signing or move... done deal. They just need to peak going into the playoffs and get people freakin' scoring.

Remember... Tank should be even better this year, and we haven't seen the best out of Lindbohm, Bertuzzo, even Pietrangelo can be better. A whole season with Shatty healthy perhaps... Maybe Allen will be lights out.

This team should be going UP from where it is now.

[theohall]

Pipe dreams: buyout or deal Ott for anything or even throw in a late round pick just to get rid of him.
(Fire Hitch. Fire Army.)
Take a flyer on a skill guy who is on the scrap heap with a low value earn your way back contract ($1 for Mike Richards? e.g.)

Buyouts had to be completed before Jun 30. Also, buying out Ott would cost .866M this season and .866M next season, instead of just what's due this season. Yes, he's overpaid. Tough. It was a mistake paying him that much and we can't change it.

Armstrong's words reflect the coach's attitude of continuing to prepare to win the meaningless regular season and NOT PREPARING TO WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS! No one in this organization since the announcement of Hitch's return has mentioned anything about preparing the team to win in the playoffs. Until that changes, this team's focus will continue to be President's trophy attempts, division titles, Conference titles, and repeated playoff failures.

"Armstrong wants the Blues to be able to "wear teams down on a nightly basis." In the Western Conference, he said, you have to play with "size and weight."
"I just think that size is something you can't teach," he said. "It makes us a more difficult team to play against."

That was last season's mantra and the season before that and the season before that. Yes, it works in the regular season. It gets you kicked out of the playoffs in the first round, though. Where is finding the speed this team needs. Size and weight are NOT speed.

[glen a richter]

Wear them down with size and weight, yeah that's how we beat the tar out of Minnesota and why Chicago didn't win the Cup... oh wait, both of those teams are skilled and fast, Minnesota embarrassed us with their speed and Chicago has 3 in the last 6! Armstrong, you are literally blind as a bat or a (Franking) moron or both if you can't see the dynamic shift in the way the game is being played these days. Size and weight only puts your team in a position to wear themselves down.

[flyingnote38]

Allen signed for $2.35 M per for 2 years. Leaves us squarely in the middle of the salary cap range (about $9 mill below the cap and above the floor) with just Tarasenko left unsigned.

A decent deal for Tank still leaves us some flexibility if Army can persuade the owners to pony up more cash cause seriously this year there ain't no possible way we don't go at least to the third round...................I mean we kept the dream team intact in all. And added Troy Brouwer who has scored in the playoffs as recently as 4 seasons ago.

[glen a richter]

Just then Buffalo gives Tarasenko an offer sheet 8 years 80 million.

[Nyghtewynd]

Wow. It only took some of y'all three years.

[Oaklandblue]

Let's play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

Say the lineup ends up being something =->along the lines<-= of:

Forwards
Lehtera, Tarasenko, Schwartz
Backes, Steen, Brouwer
Berglund, Ott, Reaves
Jaskin, Stastny, Brodziak

Defencemen
Boomer Pie
Shatt Gunn
Bortz Lindbolm

Goalies
Ells, Allen

That ain't half bad for a setup that is D intensive. If we're going to play a D-minded setup and if we're going to keep Hitch, why not go full bore and just sign high end D with some skilled playmakers?

For all the shit I keep hearing about Brouwer, I've actually seen this guy play. He ain't afraid to fight, ain't afraid to play physical and will go into enemy territory to pot goals in. He's no Oshie but truth is we don't need an Oshie-type player with the battle plan that Hitch has drawn up and Brouwer fits that bill.

What needs to happen is Stastny needs to be put into a position to prove he has the skills to do what we need him to do. If Tank is the answer, we're paying Stastny too much. I hear alot about potential and skills and this and that but if you're not producing, a ton of money is a waste no matter how you try and view it.

As for Berglund, look: He produces in the playoffs, he's a third-line guy and for his role, he is reliable. He's a weakness because he's a East-West player on a North-South team. It's really as simple as that. For us he sucks, but make a list of the players on this team who puts up points in the playoffs, his name comes up on a reliable basis. You really want to dump that for a pick? Cause that's all he's worth.

Ott is a chirper and he does that job well. He's the guy who is supposed to get people off their game and is the kind of piece we need in the Hitch Strategy, it's simple as that as well. He produces but in the "Intangibles" way that alot of you were so enamoured with back in the day that has somehow fallen off. Worth the money? If you can get an entire fanbase of your opponent to demand his head on a pike, then Ott is worth every penny. He made more noise in that way than just about anyone not named Tank, Bergy, Steen did in the playoffs.

As for netminding, we have so much depth it's hard to breathe at times and with the addition of Copley, it's even worse, in a good way. If we are to believe that a solid, top-rate defense makes any netminder look like a superhero, then it doesn't matter what we got between the pipes. Thankfully our talent is really sound.

In short: It is FAR too soon to give up. It took the Stars a few years of bouncing out of the playoffs to go all the way. If we're going to trust Hitch all the way, let him take the reins all the way, it'll either lead to The Cup or The Cellar but at least it'll lead something.

[Nyghtewynd]

That team can't win the Stanley Cup. It is a worse lineup than last year. And no team with Steve Ott The Worst Center In The NHL on the third freaking line is going to win jack in the playoffs. But, y'know, Army and Stillman, right?

[Oaklandblue]

That team can't win the Stanley Cup. It is a worse lineup than last year. And no team with Steve Ott The Worst Center In The NHL on the third freaking line is going to win jack in the playoffs. But, y'know, Army and Stillman, right?

Why the hell is it people demand MORE of Ott and Bergy and seemingly less of players like Steen, Backes, Stastny, etc?

(Hell, Bergy SHOWED UP in the playoffs and actually has been doing so since he's worn Blue. Not highly productive, but moreso than some players, but what do you expect from a bottom of the lineup player, Giroux quality?)

But hey we paid Stastny 7m a year and he ain't done shit but hey. he's as good as Tank or Pie, or so his paycheck says.

Maybe if we didn't whine about the bottom of the lineup players who are clearly bottom of the lineup players and demanded more of any player wearing a letter or being paid top dollar to perform we'd get somewhere?

I'm sorry, I'm going to back up Ott tonight cause when you're a Chirper and you can make AN ENTIRE STATE like the Hockey Capital of Earth, Minnesota, cry for your head, you KNOW you're doing your job right. It's the rest of the time that said screw it, stayed quiet, and fell apart.

But let's blame Steve Ott.

In fact, for 2016 I am hereby claiming Steve Ott as my sponsorship just to spite you. Let the Chirping begin!

[flyingnote38]

But let's blame Steve Ott.

The problem with Ott is it shows Armstrong doesn't know what he's doing. He thinks Ott is a hockey player and is "tough to play against." Ott is unpleasant to play against. Big difference. Kane is tough to play against. So is Hossa and Toews and Sharp and Saad and Tarasenko and therein lies why the Hawks have three cups and we get bounced in the first round of the playoffs. We don't have enough guys named Tarasenko. But we've cornered the market on Steve Otts.

So what the heck lets throw an effin' parade because he made the entire state of Minnesota hate him. It wasn't by scoring goals and knocking them out of the playoffs. But as long as Army is GM, we should cherish the "successes" that we do accomplish. Cause it ain't looking like a Cup parade is coming anytime soon.

[theohall]

Let's break this down into parts.

Let's play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

Say the lineup ends up being something =->along the lines<-= of:

Forwards
Lehtera, Tarasenko, Schwartz
Backes, Steen, Brouwer
Berglund, Ott, Reaves
Jaskin, Stastny, Brodziak

Defencemen
Boomer Pie
Shatt Gunn
Bortz Lindbolm

Goalies
Ells, Allen

That ain't half bad for a setup that is D intensive. If we're going to play a D-minded setup and if we're going to keep Hitch, why not go full bore and just sign high end D with some skilled playmakers?

So you are comfortable with winning the regular season and bowing out in the playoffs. The Minnesota freakin' Wild just proved how easy it is to beat a team whose system focuses on defensive positioning first by beating a team which clearly had more talent in the first round of the damn playoffs. Getting more D intensive isn't going to solve the problem of scoring 1 or 2 goals per damn game in the playoffs.

For all the shit I keep hearing about Brouwer, I've actually seen this guy play. He ain't afraid to fight, ain't afraid to play physical and will go into enemy territory to pot goals in. He's no Oshie but truth is we don't need an Oshie-type player with the battle plan that Hitch has drawn up and Brouwer fits that bill.

Brouwer is a fine player, but he isn't a fast, skilled, quick transition type player. He's a bigger, solid two-way player which fits perfectly for Hitch and Army with their plan of "size and toughness" vice the supposed "speed" Hitch has mentioned twice in two seasons about incorporating into this team while he and Army have repeated ad nauseam how tough the Blues are to play against. Ask the Wild how tough the Blues were to play against in comparison to the faster, allowed to use their skill Blackhawks. Again - setting up for regular season success and playoff failure based on this personnel move.

What needs to happen is Stastny needs to be put into a position to prove he has the skills to do what we need him to do. If Tank is the answer, we're paying Stastny too much. I hear alot about potential and skills and this and that but if you're not producing, a ton of money is a waste no matter how you try and view it.

What needs to happen is Stasnty needs 1st or 2nd line minutes not to be toiling on a 3rd line and your plan has him on a 3rd or 4th line with worse talent than last season. Way to use your investment in a more skilled player by sticking him in a role which doesn't fit his skill set at all. He was brought in to improve this team's skill only to be suffocated by the idiotic defense-first system and crappy linemates. Oh... so let's make the team MORE defesnive-minded? Where is the scoring going to come from. Allen stood on his head and the Blues lost, not because of poor defense or goaltending, but due to a LACK OF SCORING from being so defensive-minded. Stastny can help with that scoring problem, if used properly.

As for Berglund, look: He produces in the playoffs, he's a third-line guy and for his role, he is reliable. He's a weakness because he's a East-West player on a North-South team. It's really as simple as that. For us he sucks, but make a list of the players on this team who puts up points in the playoffs, his name comes up on a reliable basis. You really want to dump that for a pick? Cause that's all he's worth.

Too little too late.

Ott is a chirper and he does that job well. He's the guy who is supposed to get people off their game and is the kind of piece we need in the Hitch Strategy, it's simple as that as well. He produces but in the "Intangibles" way that alot of you were so enamoured with back in the day that has somehow fallen off. Worth the money? If you can get an entire fanbase of your opponent to demand his head on a pike, then Ott is worth every penny. He made more noise in that way than just about anyone not named Tank, Bergy, Steen did in the playoffs.

Ott is overpaid and rates as one of the worst centers in the game today under Corsi. His chirping eliminates instigator penalties (this was documented this season) even if Ott isn't involved in the guy who winds up being attacked, because officials think the Blues have it coming due to Ott's chirping. Ott's chirping doesn't create enough penalties, takes away penalties in favor of the Blues, and usually leads to more penalties against for St Louis. Is that really worth it??

As for netminding, we have so much depth it's hard to breathe at times and with the addition of Copley, it's even worse, in a good way. If we are to believe that a solid, top-rate defense makes any netminder look like a superhero, then it doesn't matter what we got between the pipes. Thankfully our talent is really sound.

No argument there. Copley was signed by the Caps as a UDFA due to breaking out in college as several other goalies have done. Having depth in goal provides opportunities for later deals. Copley will just have to prove it in Chicago for now.

In short: It is FAR too soon to give up. It took the Stars a few years of bouncing out of the playoffs to go all the way. If we're going to trust Hitch all the way, let him take the reins all the way, it'll either lead to The Cup or The Cellar but at least it'll lead something.

This is where I disagree because management, along with Hitchcock is stuck on winning in the regular season. Everything you've mentioned above supports winning in the regular season. It doesn't prepare the team to win in the playoffs. What needs to happen is letting this team use younger, faster players, playing the skilled guys more often and not relying on 4th liners like Ott, Reaves, and Brodziak. You are taking away ice time from more talented players who could actually provide that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th goal that would win playoff games. Instead, it's more defense, more size and toughness, more being tough to play against, just not win it counts.

Lines need to be:
Schwartz, Lehtera, Tank
Steen, Stastny, Backes

(balance those two lines ice time as much as possible)

Jaskin, Barbashev, Rattie
Berglund, Ott, Brouwer

That 4th line - less then 6 minutes per game. Let the kids play and grow. If they aren't working out, rotate in someone else from the minors. Brodziak and Reaves are depth for injury - nothing more. They don't get regular ice time.

Defense:
Shattenkirk, Gunnarson (worked well last season - even in the playoffs)
Pietrangelo, Lindbohm
Bortuzzo, Bouwmeester

Puts the all three best offensive defenseman on separate lines. It also puts every defenseman in their naturally handed position. This allows for quick transition from D to O from every line, not just 2 lines as is the case with your proposal and the way the Blues have used Bouwmeester ever since acquiring him. Pairing him with another offensive d-man means one of the two has to back off and be more defesnive-minded. It's a mistake and limits the talent of one or the other. Given Pie's status, we saw what it did to Bouwmeester last season.

But - this won't happen due to management and Hitchcock's continued "win in the regular season" attitude without doing any preparation for the necessary transition to actually be a faster, more skilled, better at transition, better at skating from O to D (vice being in D positionally all the time) playoff winner. Even the Wild were better at O to D transition than the Blues. Makes one seriously question the supposed strong defensive system Hitchcock promotes.

Sidenote - looking over the prospects - this team is sorely lacking in natural left wing prospects. Darn near everyone shoots right. And this year's draft didn't help with this issue. The last pick is a LW, but he is certainly not offensively gifted. Dunda does fit the goon-it-up mode you proposed, Oaklandblue.

[cardsfan04]

That team can't win the Stanley Cup. It is a worse lineup than last year. And no team with Steve Ott The Worst Center In The NHL on the third freaking line is going to win jack in the playoffs. But, y'know, Army and Stillman, right?

Why the hell is it people demand MORE of Ott and Bergy and seemingly less of players like Steen, Backes, Stastny, etc?

(Hell, Bergy SHOWED UP in the playoffs and actually has been doing so since he's worn Blue. Not highly productive, but moreso than some players, but what do you expect from a bottom of the lineup player, Giroux quality?)

But hey we paid Stastny 7m a year and he ain't done shit but hey. he's as good as Tank or Pie, or so his paycheck says.

Maybe if we didn't whine about the bottom of the lineup players who are clearly bottom of the lineup players and demanded more of any player wearing a letter or being paid top dollar to perform we'd get somewhere?

I'm sorry, I'm going to back up Ott tonight cause when you're a Chirper and you can make AN ENTIRE STATE like the Hockey Capital of Earth, Minnesota, cry for your head, you KNOW you're doing your job right. It's the rest of the time that said screw it, stayed quiet, and fell apart.

But let's blame Steve Ott.

In fact, for 2016 I am hereby claiming Steve Ott as my sponsorship just to spite you. Let the Chirping begin!

Yes, completely agree with this. Ott's not that great. But, he's a 4th liner. He's not our issue. The problem is top 6 guys disappearing in the playoffs. That's what needs fixing.

I would put Stastny between Steen and Backes. I think that could be a nice line. Getting Backes to the wing is one benefit of the Oshie trade that I haven't heard discussed much.

[goon attack]

Kane is tough to play against. So is Hossa and Toews and Sharp and Saad

Well, shit... let's just get those guys then.

#problemsolved

[theohall]

Kane is tough to play against. So is Hossa and Toews and Sharp and Saad

Well, shit... let's just get those guys then.

#problemsolved

They aren't tough to play against because of their size and weight, though. They are tough to play against because of their skill and it isn't crushed under a purely defense first system.

[flyingnote38]

They aren't tough to play against because of their size and weight, though. They are tough to play against because of their skill and it isn't crushed under a purely defense first system.

Which is entirely the point. What makes someone "tough to play against"?
Reality = skill and speed
Armstrong = size and grit

Reality = Cups
Armstrong = first round exits

[The Flake]

Kane is tough to play against. So is Hossa and Toews and Sharp and Saad

Well, shit... let's just get those guys then.

#problemsolved

They aren't tough to play against because of their size and weight, though. They are tough to play against because of their skill and it isn't crushed under a purely defense first system.

I would have to agree here, they are tough to play against because of their determination when it matters. People keep talking size vs. skill and i dont think those in and by themselves are the qualifiers. Toews is a natural leader and the word clutch seems to come to mind. I also cant stand Kane but the same can be said of him to a lesser degree.

The leadership on the Blues NEEDS to change. Oshie getting shipped out was the first step in the right direction. I'm thinking Backes needs to walk as well. These guys have had time to prove that they can lead this team and failed miserably. We need a real leader. Toews, Messier, Yzerman, Gretz, Stevens, etc. all with different levels of skill and toughness but they all share the same intangible...they led their teams to victory. Backes and Oshie aint it. I was hoping for a long time that Backes would mature into that guy but i just dont think its going to happen...so you move on and keep trying to find that person.

We gotta give Tank and Swartz their shot now. I like what i see. I think Backes needs to go in order for them take the reigns. Once you have great leadership, the rest always seems to fall into place.