What do you expect today? (trade deadline day)

[dmiles2186]

Nah, it's a poor excuse.
God forbid Berglund get waived or traded for a conditional draft pick to free up salary. They didn't have to get that creative to make room for a move.
But so help me God if they get bounced once again from the playoffs because of their inability to score big goals...and then everyone will blame the goaltending, again.

This is so painfully true. Groundhog day, man. I just feel like this is destined to happen.

[ecbm]

What exactly did you want the Blues to do today? I mean, aside from Berglund, Pajaarvi and a bag of pucks for Ovechkin with Washington retaining 80% of his salary?

Think of it this way: of all those teams who gave up futures for mediocrities-and that's all that was dealt today-at most just one of them can win the cup. For the rest, these will be regrettable moves.

Drouin was the only thing available that even vaguely interested me or that I thought would make the Blues better. And again, what difference do personnel changes make when we have a decision-maker who's sent down Rattie (4g in 13 games at 9 minutes per) but keeps giving minutes to Pajaarvi, Jaskin and Berglund (10 in 117 games between them at 13, 13 and 16 minutes a night)?

Drouin has to be livid today. Wow.

Drouin is interesting and I believe he wasn't dealt to send him a message - GMs aren't happy about a guy on an entry level contract demanding a trade.

Yep. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure Yzerman's position was: (Frank) him, unless somebody wants to grossly overpaid he's not moving.

[cprice12]

What exactly did you want the Blues to do today? I mean, aside from Berglund, Pajaarvi and a bag of pucks for Ovechkin with Washington retaining 80% of his salary?

Think of it this way: of all those teams who gave up futures for mediocrities-and that's all that was dealt today-at most just one of them can win the cup. For the rest, these will be regrettable moves.

Drouin was the only thing available that even vaguely interested me or that I thought would make the Blues better. And again, what difference do personnel changes make when we have a decision-maker who's sent down Rattie (4g in 13 games at 9 minutes per) but keeps giving minutes to Pajaarvi, Jaskin and Berglund (10 in 117 games between them at 13, 13 and 16 minutes a night)?

Drouin has to be livid today. Wow.

Drouin is interesting and I believe he wasn't dealt to send him a message - GMs aren't happy about a guy on an entry level contract demanding a trade.

Yep. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure Yzerman's position was: (Frank) him, unless somebody wants to grossly overpaid he's not moving.

We'll see what happens. But I thought we needed help offensively...and Army didn't get the job done today. And him saying it is because of cap and injury issues, is just another way of him saying, "My job was too hard today...so I didn't do anything."

If Armstrong really wanted to clear some salary space, he could have.

It was also said that many GM's interested in Drouin expressed concern that he hasn't played for a while now...and that contributed to a deal not getting done.
And it is rumored that Yzerman wants to welcome Drouin back...which makes sense I guess. If he couldn't move him, he might as well play him...and he has to play him anyway to build up his trade value.

[ecbm]

But I thought we needed help offensively...and Army didn't get the job done today.

Understood. But honestly, nobody who would have made much difference was moved at all. Having looked at all the trades of the last week, the only ones I would have made would have been a 6th for Pirri or a 5th & a prospect for Versteeg. But even those guys wouldn't crack the Blues top 6 with everyone healthy.

If the Blues need more offense, they can get it in house-just give Fabbri some of Pajaarvi & Jaskin's minutes, give the rest of those minutes Rattie and give Parayko some of Bouwmeester's minutes. But, nope. Due to that and the fact that I really really hope this is Hitch's sink-or-swim season, I'm glad that no significant futures were wasted chasing more offense in a system where the coach chooses to limit the playing time of productive players in favor of less productive players.

[cprice12]

I'm glad that no significant futures were wasted chasing more offense in a system where the coach chooses to limit the playing time of productive players in favor of less productive players.

Agreed on that point.

[theohall]

Going to verify this later, but the few times the Blues have had their top 9 forwards healthy this season they were averaging 4 goals/game. When healthy, they are playing a more open game than in past seasons. We just haven't seen enough of it, because key players who contribute significantly keep getting hurt. I was surprised to see them playing that more open game against the Hurricanes, but Carolina being undermanned allowed the Blues to open up somewhat without having their best players. This is what gave Rattie the chance to showcase his ability, instead of just grinding out time and protecting the wing as he's had to do before. It seems to me Armstrong is counting on them being healthy.

Thinking the Blues will be playing the same "Hitchcock" style hockey they played last season isn't paying attention to the way all defenseman are allowed to jump into the offensive zone while forwards are playing lower in the zone when acting as 3rd man high putting them in better scoring positions. (See Backes goal yesterday - in the past, Backes would have been further up the boards as the 3rd man high when Jaskin and Paajarvi were working the corner and might not have gotten to the puck off Paajarvi's rebound.)

At times, the Blues have fallen back on the old system, but it seems to me lately they are trying to get the team on the new page vice the old one while ramping up for the playoffs. This may cost them some games, because it will allow more shots against. It will lead to odd-man breaks putting more on the goaltender in terms of helping carry the play vice just making 20ish saves per game. Have to watch and see how they play next week vs the contenders following the Ottawa game.

[Kerfuffle]

Ultimately I believe it came down to Armstrong not wanting to part with picks and also afraid to make a deal which turns out to hurt the team. But I disagree strongly with that approach. Picks are just that...picks, they are not proven players. And when your team is as good as the Blues and close to having a deep run I'm sorry but you pull the trigger and make a deal happen - especially when you are sitting on a huge amount of cap room courtesy of several players that can be LTIR'd. And when people say they don't want to mortage the future, isn't the future now? When do you 'go for it'? A big time acquisition could have sparked momentum in the locker room and been just what they needed for a deep run. Armstrong gets a big fat F for this trade deadline. I'm curious to see what your media says in the next couple days about this.

[ComradeT]

I can't say I have any positives to speak on this trade deadline. Complete and utter failure. Why was Ott not put on LTIR? I get Steen and Elliott. Why not Ott? What is that guy going to do to help us in the playoffs? Absolutely nothing. Unless you call 'getting in the heads' of the opponent only to have them literally laugh it off and still beat us in 6 a contribution to the team.

The problem now is that if you have an injury, you are giving significant time to Paajarvi and Jaskin, both of whom haven't really done anything this year.

If Steen or Schwartz or (God forbid) Tarasenko get hurt, then you are immediately behind the 8 ball. And this team already hasn't played as well as teams in recent past. Yes, I know there has been injuries, but the team I'm seeing on the ice doesn't quite show any consistency in dominating games. The offense is lacking. Isn't that the EXACT same thing that has bounced us from the playoffs in recent year?

Do we automatically expect Backes and Steen to start scoring at will in the playoffs when they have a proven track record of not doing that? I guess a positive is that Oshie is no longer here to join them. Is Brouwer that much of a playoff performer that he can help? Remains to be seen.

At this juncture, you have to hope that either Elliott or Allen just plays out of his friggin' mind to steal games. You have to hope that Fabbri and Rattie (if given a chance) continue to flourish and are that scoring punch down the lineup that is needed. You have to hope that the injury bug will leave us before the end of the season. You have to hope that Stastny earns his 7 mil with another big playoff performance. You have to hope that Tarasenko doesn't regress from his previous playoff performances.

That's just a few of the things you have to hope for and THAT is why I'm not happy sitting pat at the deadline. There is no extra threat. There is no Cup leadership coming into the roster.

Agreed 100%. This front office seems to use hope as the basis for their strategy. Essentially the same group of attacking players save for a rookie and a 4th line journeyman failed in playoffs last season. Our defense may be rock solid but even this regular season has shown that the Blues still need another 20+ goal scorer to help Tarasenko out. Being 4th in points is great, and a lot of that is due to the style Blues play but we have seen that same style not work in the playoffs, and if they are to run and gun as they have been trying to do this season, they'll fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. Again.

[theohall]

So there is a really big Catch-22

1) If the Blues don't go far, they supposedly will blow it up which will require ..... DRAFT PICKS!!!

2) But the Blues need to make a move which requires giving up ..... DRAFT PICKS.

Seems like the GM is hedging his bets on not making it far in the playoffs and saying, see, I kept the picks for when keeping Hitchcock didn't work.

[Portland Blues]

So there is a really big Catch-22

1) If the Blues don't go far, they supposedly will blow it up which will require ..... DRAFT PICKS!!!

2) But the Blues need to make a move which requires giving up ..... DRAFT PICKS.

Seems like the GM is hedging his bets on not making it far in the playoffs and saying, see, I kept the picks for when keeping Hitchcock didn't work.

Genius! I knew there was a method to management's madness.

[dmiles2186]

Ultimately I believe it came down to Armstrong not wanting to part with picks and also afraid to make a deal which turns out to hurt the team. But I disagree strongly with that approach. Picks are just that...picks, they are not proven players. And when your team is as good as the Blues and close to having a deep run I'm sorry but you pull the trigger and make a deal happen - especially when you are sitting on a huge amount of cap room courtesy of several players that can be LTIR'd. And when people say they don't want to mortage the future, isn't the future now? When do you 'go for it'? A big time acquisition could have sparked momentum in the locker room and been just what they needed for a deep run. Armstrong gets a big fat F for this trade deadline. I'm curious to see what your media says in the next couple days about this.

The future is now...but there is also that, a future. What I mean is, while Steen, Backes, Elliott, and Bouwmeester are north of 30, the true core of Tarasenko, Schwartz, Petro, and Parayko are 26 and under. So mortgaging too much of the future could jeopardize keeping this run going. At the same time, trading a 3rd or 4th round pick here or there didn't seem like such a bad idea to me.

I get Army's 'rock and a hard place' thought process on one hand, but to not do anything...ANYTHING (hell, last year they at least got Michalek and Jokinen) is a terrible message to your fan base.

[Toasted Oates]

I can maybe be water boarded into accepting standing pat.

But I'm struggling w/ the KH/DA obsession with Magnus Paajarvi. Ty Rattie got sent down again today w/ Reaves back from suspension. 18 has as many pts and twice as many goals in 27 less games played, PLUS around 3 minutes less TOI.

Help me understand this.

EDIT: Whoops, you guys touched on this in another thread. My bad, carry on.

[The Flake]

I'm ok with standing pat this season. The thing I didn't want was the use of high level picks. We have given away too many over the last few years in failed deadline trades. On the other hand, when given the opportunity to draft high, we as an organization have done pretty well in our selections.

I'll take this to the next logical step, when we starting our reorganization, the organization determined that it would build a strong team through the draft like the Devils did in the 90's. Great!!! We need to stay the same course. As much of a gamble as draft picks are, it seems like deadline FA's share the same sort of high risk gamble. I think the Blues do a real good job drafting quality picks, much better than they are at deadline trades. Erikkson would have been a nice addition if draft picks weren't involved but other than that, I wouldn't have hated picking up Russell as a 6th/7th defenseman I guess.

I like the talent that we have here and I don't blame Army for not overpaying for a player. I'd rather see him stand his ground if he doesn't see something that will definitely benefit the team as a whole. I'm ready to see what a healthy St.Louis Blues team can do in the playoffs this year as is.

I am disappointed that Army didn't unload some dead weight for picks to some desperate or overreaching/reacting team.

[cprice12]

Ultimately I believe it came down to Armstrong not wanting to part with picks and also afraid to make a deal which turns out to hurt the team. But I disagree strongly with that approach. Picks are just that...picks, they are not proven players. And when your team is as good as the Blues and close to having a deep run I'm sorry but you pull the trigger and make a deal happen - especially when you are sitting on a huge amount of cap room courtesy of several players that can be LTIR'd. And when people say they don't want to mortage the future, isn't the future now? When do you 'go for it'? A big time acquisition could have sparked momentum in the locker room and been just what they needed for a deep run. Armstrong gets a big fat F for this trade deadline. I'm curious to see what your media says in the next couple days about this.

The media won't say anything...aside from maybe Miklasz, but he isn't really a hockey guy.
The media in town seem soft. They don't ask tough questions or prod GM's/coaches for answers. They lob softball questions and they accept generic, shallow, canned responses.
I get why they do it. They don't want to lose access or certain privileges...but I wish they would hold Army & Hitch's feet to the fire a little more.

Kerber and Chase will kind of speak their minds at times, but they aren't really the media. Our sports reporters and columnists just don't press like I wish they would.

I know JR reads this forum. He has told me so. So, how about some tough questions about the Blues not going for it this year?

How about these for starters...

-Our offense, even when 100% healthy, isn't as good on paper as last year, and last year it wasn't good enough. We lost offense in the Oshie-Brouwer deal...and Backes & Jaskin are having down offensive years, so what makes anyone think this year it will be miraculously better come playoff time?

- Our division rivals all got better...Chicago, Dallas, and Nashville, all added pieces and found ways around their cap issues. Chicago and Dallas were against the cap and they found ways to make moves. Why was the cap an issue for us, but not them?

- And Kerfuffle's point about LTIR money and the ability to add more players because of cap flexibility is a valid question. We could have easily added Eriksson for example, and not had to clear any cap space, assuming we don't activate Steen until playoffs (kind of a radical move, but worth asking). I'd be curious if that was even considered, or if that wasn't possible for some odd reason we aren't aware of.

- For a team that is struggling offensively, why does Rattie continually get sent down when he is producing at a much higher rate offensively then Paajarvi and Jaskin, who always seem to be played in favor of Rattie? What does Hitch and Army see in Paajarvi and Jasking that makes them constantly dress those two ahead of Rattie?

- Army said that nobody would crack our top 9 that was available. Well, Stempniak, Drouin, Eriksson, Hudler, etc. all would have easily cracked our top 9 and have better numbers than a number of our regulars. They are specifically much more talented offensively than Paajarvi & Jaskin who continually get top 9 playing time. Why would he say that when it doesn't seem to be true at all?

- Why is Paajarvi averaging more playing time than Fabbri?

- Why does Brouwer get more PP ice time than Fabbri?

- Parayko is our most gifted defenseman as far as offensive skills go. It's not even close really. Why is he 3rd in PP ice time for defensemen? Woudn't it be logical for him to be #1, or at least #2 behind Shatty?

- Why aren't our most gifted offensive players playing more when we are having so much trouble scoring goals?

- Why does Brouwer seem to get the nod in shootouts when he isn't a gifted goal scorer? Why hasn't Shatty shot in the shootout when he used to shoot frequently in the past, with seemingly good results? What about Parayko? Fabbri?

I would LOVE to ask these questions.

[gaijin]

I would LOVE to ask these questions.

Looks like you just did, if JR reads the forum.

Those would also make good topics for LGB Radio episodes. Although I know you have already covered some of them.

[glen a richter]

I would have liked certain players moved just as much as everyone else here... you know which players I'm talking about. But concurrently I'm also happy they didn't surrender the 1st round pick because I still hold out hope they'll make a move at the draft to either add another 1st rounder or move up in the 1st round. There're a number of guys I'd be very happy with them drafting this year and I would have hated to see them sit out by trading the pick.

[WaukeeBlues]

The Ducks got depth forward Brandon Pirri (who has 24 points in 52 games this year) for a 6th round draft pick. SIXTH round. Unless I missed one, the only trade involving a first round pick was Ladd.

You can never have too much depth in the playoffs and I think it is absolutely inexcusable that the only move Armstrong made was to get another goalie.

As Curt accurately put it, all of the teams around us got better and piled on more depth, teams with larger cap issues than we have, while we did not improve.

I'm f*cking sick of Doug Armstrong and I'm f*cking sick of Ken Hitchcock. Get them out of here.

[dmiles2186]

The Ducks got depth forward Brandon Pirri (who has 24 points in 52 games this year) for a 6th round draft pick. SIXTH round. Unless I missed one, the only trade involving a first round pick was Ladd.

You can never have too much depth in the playoffs and I think it is absolutely inexcusable that the only move Armstrong made was to get another goalie.

[glen a richter]

I think that Armstrong might have deliberately punted this season. I get that once the postseason starts, anything can happen, but the likelihood of anyone competing with Washington this season is slim. That team is light years ahead of everyone else, and it would be nonsensical to make a kneejerk trade in reaction to what everyone else in the division was doing just to have a shot at MAYBE getting to the SCF and promptly being swept out by the Caps. Armstrong recognized that too many teams were getting better around the Blues so getting to the SCF wouldn't be a shoo-in anyway and if they made it there, it would be a longshot to win anyway.

Or, he's just totally incompetent. In either case, he needs to go this offseason.

[dmiles2186]

Last summer (and the summer before that) I advocated for bringing Lee Stempniak back into the fold. Welp...
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/704403485857595392