Joining a church...

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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Fri May 30, 2014 7:17 pm

Misc. Blues, no one spews hate like Christians! If you actually read history you would know Christians have threatened to murder and actually did kill MILLIONS of people on EVERY continent simply because people refused to convert to their false middle eastern religion! And no major character or event in the bible is in the historical record!

The term "forced conversion" came from Christianity and all the millions they forced to convert by the SWORD! And you DO pick and choose from the bible otherwise you'd be in jail or on death row! Intolerance and hatred in religion never even existed till Christianity and Islam!
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Fri May 30, 2014 7:19 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:You Christians only show how NAIVE you are by dismissing thousands of other gods when your god is just as absent as any other!


Why do you keep saying 'you Christians?' Several of us in this discussion have already stated that we are not Christians. I think you are confusing those on the other side of the discussion as Christians just because we have some different thoughts than you do.


I wasn't talking about you but Misc. Blues and his ilk.
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby glen a richter » Fri May 30, 2014 7:39 pm

I think a great deal of what many religious folk think is flat out ridiculous. This is because I understand science and how things work. I understand carbon dating and I understand evolution. Now whether these things just naturally occurred or if they were gifted to us by an omnipresent creator, that's up for debate. My colleague once righteously pissed off her priest by saying that she believed in evolution and when pressed on it said "well if God created everything, he also created evolution." There's such a wealth of evidence supporting evolution, to deny it in the 21st century is a bit odd. But if people want to believe that every single person in the entire history of the world originated from two people in a kick-ass garden then that's their right to do so.

I believe that JNE's power play to push his non-belief is as bad as religious folks power play to push their beliefs on everyone else. Live and let live.
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Fri May 30, 2014 10:06 pm

If you guys have ever taken a course on Religious history there is something important you should know. Before Christianity came along it was very rare that people fought over religion.

Intolerance and hatred only started with Christianity because the Bible says "this is the only way". We should really thank our founding fathers for leaving religion out of our Constitution and having religious freedom. Thanks to religious freedom all over the west Christians can no longer force their beliefs on others!

Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus! There are no eyewitness accounts or contemporary accounts. There is no archeological evidence and Jesus never even did as much as sign his name!
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby Misc. Blues » Sat May 31, 2014 12:25 am

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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sat May 31, 2014 7:14 am

Dude, your link is bunk. NONE of those people listed were even alive when the alleged Jesus was so they never saw an earthly Jesus! NO ONE ever did!

To further debunk Tacitus:

It would have been impossible for Tacitus (56 CE – ca 118 CE) to have had any firsthand knowledge of a Historical Jesus since Jesus would have already been dead for at least 23 years before Tacitus was born (assuming the latest date of April 33 CE for the crucifixion).

 The fire in Rome happened on June 19, 64 which would have made Tacitus only 8 years old at the time. At such an age, Tacitus would have likely been much too young to have recorded anything (if he was literate at that age) especially for a child living in Gaul.

 The distance from Gaul (setting Paris as the central city) to Jerusalem (by land) is about 3,695 miles. How could Tacitus, who was only 8 years old at the time, have any firsthand knowledge of either the Christians in Roman Palestine or even the fire in Rome over 700 miles away?

 Tacitus published his first work (Agricola) in 98 CE and his Annals around 114 or 115 or 59 years after the fire in Nero’s Rome and 82 years after the death of the so-called Historical Jesus. Thus, the information about “Christus”  (a hapax legomenon) suffering under Pilate shows a confessional belief and not any historical event he knew about. If Jesus is theChristus meant here, then we would expect the Latin “Iesum Christum”.  However, Tacitus is likely simply repeating an established tradition as we learn nothing more than that which is not already stated by Josephus and forms the basis for the Apostles Creed: “ . . . passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultussuffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried;).








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Re: Joining a church...

Postby Misc. Blues » Sat May 31, 2014 11:40 am

The link is debunked?

Those are from non-Christian resources. What would they gain to put fiction in a historical document?

I choose to believe in something and you choose to believe in nothing. Why do you fight for something that you believe that doesn't exist? It makes no sense.

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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sat May 31, 2014 11:47 am

Misc. Blues wrote:The link is debunked?

Those are from non-Christian resources. What would they gain to put fiction in a historical document?

I choose to believe in something and you choose to believe in nothing. Why do you fight for something that you believe that doesn't exist? It makes no sense.

If I say black you'll say white.


Non Christian sources who NEVER saw an earthly Jesus and weren't even alive when Jesus allegedly lived! Your source doesn't mention that Tacitus also spoke of Hercules. So now you believe Hercules is real?
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sat May 31, 2014 3:03 pm

The Myth of the Historical Jesus


Despite the widespread belief in Jesus the fact remains that there is no historical Jesus. In order to understand what is meant by an "historical Jesus," consider King Midas in Greek mythology. The story that King Midas turned everything he touched into gold is clearly nonsense, yet despite this we know that there was a real King Midas. Archaeologists have excavated his tomb and found his skeletal remains. The Greeks who told the story of Midas and his golden touch clearly intended people to identify him with the real Midas. So although the story of the golden touch is fictional, the story is about a person whose existence is known as a fact--the "historical Midas." In the case of Jesus, however, there is no single person whose existence is known as a fact and who is also intended to be the subject of the Jesus stories, i.e. there is no historical Jesus. 

When confronted by a Christian missionary, one should immediately point out that . When missionaries argue they usually appeal to emotions rather than to reason and they will attempt to make you feel embarrassed about denying the historicity of Jesus. The usual response is something like "Isn't denying the existence of Jesus just as silly as denying the existence of Julius Caesar or Queen Elizabeth?" A popular variation of this response used especially against Jews is "Isn't denying the existence of Jesus like denying the Holocaust?" One should then point out that there are ample historical sources confirming the existence of Julius Caesar, Queen Elizabeth or whoever else is named, while there is no corresponding evidence for Jesus. 

http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr ... jesus.html 
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby cardsfan04 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:37 pm

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:If you guys have ever taken a course on Religious history there is something important you should know. Before Christianity came along it was very rare that people fought over religion.

Intolerance and hatred only started with Christianity because the Bible says "this is the only way". We should really thank our founding fathers for leaving religion out of our Constitution and having religious freedom. Thanks to religious freedom all over the west Christians can no longer force their beliefs on others!

Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus! There are no eyewitness accounts or contemporary accounts. There is no archeological evidence and Jesus never even did as much as sign his name!


Very rare? Pretty much every time a civilization was conquered for millenia, the conquered were forced to submit to the conquerors' religion. The Persians reign lasted a long time, longer than most, largely because they were (one of?) the first empires to allow their captives to keep their religions/traditions. It was noteworthy that they did that because it was unheard of. Civilizations have forced their beliefs on others since the beginning of time. That didn't just randomly start with Christianity.
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:33 pm

cardsfan04 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:If you guys have ever taken a course on Religious history there is something important you should know. Before Christianity came along it was very rare that people fought over religion.

Intolerance and hatred only started with Christianity because the Bible says "this is the only way". We should really thank our founding fathers for leaving religion out of our Constitution and having religious freedom. Thanks to religious freedom a
Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus! There are no eyewitness accounts or contemporary accounts. There is no archeological evidence and Jesus never even did as much as sign his name!

Very rare? Pretty much every time a civilization was conquered for millenia, the conquered were forced to submit to the conquerors' religion. The Persians reign lasted a long time, longer than most, largely because they were (one of?) the first empires to allow their captives to keep their religions/traditions. It was noteworthy that they did that because it was unheard of. Civilizations have forced their beliefs on others since the beginning of time. That didn't just randomly start with Christianity.


WRONG dude! I have taken a class in religious history and you obviously haven't. The entire doctrine of intolerance is written word for word in the bible and koran yet you do NOT find that in any other scripture. It's true there was some conflict among earlier religions but NOTHING compared to the intolerance, hatred, and violence that is encouraged in the bible and koran! Remember Christians used the bible to justify the murder of MILLIONS for over a thousand years!
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby cardsfan04 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:17 pm

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:If you guys have ever taken a course on Religious history there is something important you should know. Before Christianity came along it was very rare that people fought over religion.

Intolerance and hatred only started with Christianity because the Bible says "this is the only way". We should really thank our founding fathers for leaving religion out of our Constitution and having religious freedom. Thanks to religious freedom a
Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus! There are no eyewitness accounts or contemporary accounts. There is no archeological evidence and Jesus never even did as much as sign his name!

Very rare? Pretty much every time a civilization was conquered for millenia, the conquered were forced to submit to the conquerors' religion. The Persians reign lasted a long time, longer than most, largely because they were (one of?) the first empires to allow their captives to keep their religions/traditions. It was noteworthy that they did that because it was unheard of. Civilizations have forced their beliefs on others since the beginning of time. That didn't just randomly start with Christianity.


WRONG dude! I have taken a class in religious history and you obviously haven't. The entire doctrine of intolerance is written word for word in the bible and koran yet you do NOT find that in any other scripture. It's true there was some conflict among earlier religions but NOTHING compared to the intolerance, hatred, and violence that is encouraged in the bible and koran! Remember Christians used the bible to justify the murder of MILLIONS for over a thousand years!


LOL, I don't care to get into an e-peen contest about who knows more. I don't think there's any winners there. I'll just say I have a history degree. I'm not totally clueless in what I'm talking about history-wise.
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:47 am

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus!


And yet, anything we say is met with a response with you trying to prove us wrong. It's no different than a Christian throwing a bunch of Bible verses in our faces, your facts are just coming from other books.
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:11 am

dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus!


And yet, anything we say is met with a response with you trying to prove us wrong. It's no different than a Christian throwing a bunch of Bible verses in our faces, your facts are just coming from other books.


There is a HUGE difference! A Christian pushes belief that cannot be proven. I am an evidence based person who only believes in things that can be PROVEN. You want to try and show gravity or water doesn't exist?

You misunderstand what atheism is. It is a LACK of belief! You can't push beliefs when you have none!
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Re: Joining a church...

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:58 am

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Glen, I am NOT forcing my non beliefs on others. I am simply stating FACTS that no historical character ever saw an earthly Jesus!


And yet, anything we say is met with a response with you trying to prove us wrong. It's no different than a Christian throwing a bunch of Bible verses in our faces, your facts are just coming from other books.


There is a HUGE difference! A Christian pushes belief that cannot be proven. I am an evidence based person who only believes in things that can be PROVEN. You want to try and show gravity or water doesn't exist?

You misunderstand what atheism is. It is a LACK of belief! You can't push beliefs when you have none!


You seem like more of an antitheist than an atheist. I know there is a ton of overlap. All antitheists are atheists. Not all atheists are antitheists. But, antitheist is a much better descriptor of you than atheist.
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