Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

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Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:24 pm

I recently had an email exchange with Tom Awad at the Puck Prospectus. First of all this is what he had to say about how much playing against opponent's top lines will affect his stats:

"I don't have a metric that takes into account quality of opposition, however for a defenseman like Jackman who gets significant ice time this should even out as you can only play so many minutes against the opposition's "top line" (and when you're on the road this won't apply much, as the home team gets last line change). A fair amount of Jackman's value comes from his penalty-killing, which is by definition against top players."

He also gave Jackman's GVT by season since the lockout. Just so you know, GVT means goals versus threshold and is basically a goal-differential throughout the season versus a replacement from the minors. For instance, if someone had a offensive GVT of 3 and a defensive GVT of -1, that means if he was out for the season, the team would probably score 3 less goals and allow 1 less goal on the season (for a total goal differential of +2) if a call-up from the minors replaced him. Here are total GVT for those seasons:

05-06: +5.8
06-07: +13.1
07-08: +2.7
08-09: +3.1

He also said what GVTs you should expect for what # defenseman they are

#1: 9-15
#2: 6.5-9
#3: 4.5-6.5
#4: 3-4.5
#5: 1-3
#6: -1 to 1

So, in 05-06 Jackman played like a #3 defenseman for an average team.

In 06-07, he played like a #1 defenseman on a weaker team.

In 07-08, he played like a #5 defenseman on a good team.

In 08-09, he's played like a #4 defenseman on a lesser team.

Over the past 4 years, he's played like an average #3 on an average team, but his stats are trending downward.

Just for some perspective, Mike Green has the highest GVT for defensemen this season with +20.7. Lidstrom is second with +15.0. Vlasic of SJ rounds out the top 15 @ +9.7

Are those stats good enough for you?
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby northwest dave » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Trade the (Frank)!

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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:43 pm

Eddie Olczyk has liked his play all season. That's all that matters. Right? Right?
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby TSUCookieMonster » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:01 pm

I don't get it.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby ViPeRx007 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:46 pm

Look at it this way, Barret Jackman was a Calder winner. One would think the career progression would move along to a point where he may be a Norris winner someday. Based on how things have transpired, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Is he a good defenseman? I'd probably say yes but that answer is somewhat skewed.

He's definitely not bad, just not as good as I thought he'd be.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby glen a richter » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:57 pm

Jackman was a Calder winner alongside Al MacInnis. We should have taken that with a grain of salt. Aode could win a Calder playing with chopper.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:08 pm

I think Jackman has the talent to be a good defenseman. Look what he did in his rookie year and in 06-07. I just don't think he has the head to be a good defenseman on a consistent basis. Over the next few years, I think the Blues will have plenty of options that will provide more than Jackman on a consistent basis for less dollars.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby kodos » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:20 pm

glen a richter wrote:Jackman was a Calder winner alongside Al MacInnis. We should have taken that with a grain of salt. Aode could win a Calder playing with chopper.


Also had a lot to do with the pre-lockout rules.

People were expecting him to be the face of the franchise for 20 years.. oh well.

I really don't think he's all that bad. He should just be the #2 or #3 guy on the team. He's just in over his head.

I miss Salvador.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby OS » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:06 pm

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:I think Jackman has the talent to be a good defenseman. Look what he did in his rookie year and in 06-07. I just don't think he has the head to be a good defenseman on a consistent basis. Over the next few years, I think the Blues will have plenty of options that will provide more than Jackman on a consistent basis for less dollars.



In 06-07 you were on this message board ripping him for sucking.
Last edited by OS on Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:55 pm

kodos wrote:
glen a richter wrote:Jackman was a Calder winner alongside Al MacInnis. We should have taken that with a grain of salt. Aode could win a Calder playing with chopper.


I miss Salvador.


:plusplus: X eleventy billion

Underrated, I have no idea why the Blues felt the need to trade the guy.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby section319 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:55 pm

OS wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:I think Jackman has the talent to be a good defenseman. Look what he did in his rookie year and in 06-07. I just don't think he has the head to be a good defenseman on a consistent basis. Over the next few years, I think the Blues will have plenty of options that will provide more than Jackman on a consistent basis for less dollars.



In 06-07 you were on this message board ripping him for sucking, so you can't say now that he was good that you like that says he sucks now and was good then.



Oh, snap!
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby Mellanby_equals_grit » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:58 pm

OS wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:I think Jackman has the talent to be a good defenseman. Look what he did in his rookie year and in 06-07. I just don't think he has the head to be a good defenseman on a consistent basis. Over the next few years, I think the Blues will have plenty of options that will provide more than Jackman on a consistent basis for less dollars.



In 06-07 you were on this message board ripping him for sucking, so you can't say now that he was good that you like that says he sucks now and was good then.


Umm.. What?
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby OS » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:05 pm

Mellanby_equals_grit wrote:
OS wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:I think Jackman has the talent to be a good defenseman. Look what he did in his rookie year and in 06-07. I just don't think he has the head to be a good defenseman on a consistent basis. Over the next few years, I think the Blues will have plenty of options that will provide more than Jackman on a consistent basis for less dollars.



In 06-07 you were on this message board ripping him for sucking, so you can't say now that he was good that you like that says he sucks now and was good then.


Umm.. What?


LOL... sorry... edited.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby choppa4 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:46 am

Jackman's career peaked when he first injured his shoulder. Since then he's been decent. Nothing more, but nothing less and you need a couple guys like that to fill out the roster.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby JWatt (formerly PMS) » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:07 am

OS wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:I think Jackman has the talent to be a good defenseman. Look what he did in his rookie year and in 06-07. I just don't think he has the head to be a good defenseman on a consistent basis. Over the next few years, I think the Blues will have plenty of options that will provide more than Jackman on a consistent basis for less dollars.



In 06-07 you were on this message board ripping him for sucking.


I think I was more interested in ripping Tkachuk and the trade for him at that point. :lol:

Anyway, Tkachuk is completely useless now, except on the powerplay. I really hope we don't make the mistake of bringing him back again. The thing that pisses me off most, is that he gets away with not hustling. He's never the first one back on the backcheck, and he just coasts to the bench on a line change, even when the play is going back in our end.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby DaDitka » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:00 am

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:Anyway, Tkachuk is completely useless now, except on the powerplay. I really hope we don't make the mistake of bringing him back again. The thing that pisses me off most, is that he gets away with not hustling. He's never the first one back on the backcheck, and he just coasts to the bench on a line change, even when the play is going back in our end.



Hell, twice on last weeks home stand his old as was sleeping on the bench. Two separate times in two separate games we skated with just four players for extended periods until Walt realized his old ass was supposed to be out on the ice.

He is lazy as hell and still one of the favorites of the fans.....I just don't get it.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby section319 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:04 am

DaDitka wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:Anyway, Tkachuk is completely useless now, except on the powerplay. I really hope we don't make the mistake of bringing him back again. The thing that pisses me off most, is that he gets away with not hustling. He's never the first one back on the backcheck, and he just coasts to the bench on a line change, even when the play is going back in our end.



Hell, twice on last weeks home stand his old as was sleeping on the bench. Two separate times in two separate games we skated with just four players for extended periods until Walt realized his old ass was supposed to be out on the ice.

He is lazy as hell and still one of the favorites of the fans.....I just don't get it.



But, guys he is our leader, we NEED him... :wink:
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby thedoc » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:24 pm

I think he needs to go, I just don't know what a short term solution to this problem is.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby thedoc » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:25 pm

I think he needs to go, I just don't know what a short term solution to this problem is.
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Re: Barret Jackman - Is he or isn't he a good defenseman?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Tkachuk's such a worthless pile, I agree. :roll:

He can actually pass the puck (often to wide open guys in the slot (possibly named Winchester)), he's incredibly loyal to the fans and team (SO common in sports now-a-days), a consummate professional, able to still stir things up, chip in goals and be a capable leader on a team.

Why some of you can't understand why he's a fan favorite I can't understand why you rag on the guy. The speed of the game has NOT left him in the dust as it has with many of the older guys in the NHL (yet anyway), and still contributes. What's the problem?
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