Hawks make a costly blunder?

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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Prison Bull » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:03 pm

How can you trade what is not yours? Versteeg might become an UFA. This clerical blunder has proven to be very costly. Huet, Campbell, Hossa and now having to pay almost fair market value to Barker and others, the Hawks are handcuffed into signing Versteeg and trading away one or more of their players. They are bumping the salary cap and until player(s) and their contracts get dumped, your BHs will have the dynamic duo of Huet and Crawford in net. :aaaa:
Looking ahead to the best of next year's 2010 RFAs:

Kane
Toews
Ladd
Keith
Hjalmarsson
Eager
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby WindyCityBluesFan » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:59 am

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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Prison Bull » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:31 am

2010/11 CBH has:
8 forwards
4 defencemen
2 goalies

$42.5M

Current cap = $56.8M

Assuming the cap stays near this level. Kane and Toews should get at least Sharp money at worst ($4M) but would likely get a bit more.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:39 pm

Prison Bull wrote:2010/11 CBH has:
8 forwards
4 defencemen
2 goalies

$42.5M

Current cap = $56.8M

Assuming the cap stays near this level. Kane and Toews should get at least Sharp money at worst ($4M) but would likely get a bit more.


If you think that those guys are going to be free agents next Jult 1st, you've either hit your head on something or you're a Leafs fan. They will figure something out.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:58 pm

Ruutu15 wrote:
Prison Bull wrote:2010/11 CBH has:
8 forwards
4 defencemen
2 goalies

$42.5M

Current cap = $56.8M

Assuming the cap stays near this level. Kane and Toews should get at least Sharp money at worst ($4M) but would likely get a bit more.


If you think that those guys are going to be free agents next Jult 1st, you've either hit your head on something or you're a Leafs fan. They will figure something out.


see: Penguins, Pittsburgh.

Had to trade depth guys like Malone, Armostrong, Christensen, etc in order to keep the core together. Hawks will be facing that soon and the Blues will in the next couple of years. It sucks in a way, but this is what the cap was supposed to do
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Prison Bull » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:32 pm

The Hawks better have a great season and do well in the playoffs or there won't be any hometown discount coming your way.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Prison Bull wrote:The Hawks better have a great season and do well in the playoffs or there won't be any hometown discount coming your way.


The hometown discount is a myth anyway...I'm not worried about it, they'll make space somehow.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Prison Bull » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:01 pm

Sure they'll make space, at the cost of a blue-chipper(s). 8)
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Prison Bull » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:05 am

Dale Tallon fired. Clerical error costs him his job?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-14-tab-blackhawks-dale-tallojul14,0,5636401.story

Report: Hawks fire GM Tallon

By Chris Kuc | Tribune reporter
July 14, 2009

The Blackhawks have fired general manager Dale Tallon and will name Stan Bowman his replacement Tuesday, according to a report.

Comcast SportsNet reported late Monday that Tallon, who had been GM of the Hawks since June 21, 2005, and had built the team into a Stanley Cup contender, was out.

Tallon put together a team that reached the playoffs for the first time in seven years and advanced to the Western Conference finals during the 2008-09 season, but he came under fire last week for sending qualifying offers to restricted free agents after the deadline set by the NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement. The eight players, including Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker, all were signed to contracts.

Tallon was in the final year of his contract, and last Wednesday, in his first comments after the filing snafu, he said he had not asked for an extension. When asked if he planned to ask for one, Tallon said: "I have a contract. I'm not worried about it. I've been here for 32 years. I don't see any reason to have to do that."

Tallon had been a member of the Hawks' front office since the start of the 1998-99 season, when he was appointed director of player personnel.

Bowman, the son of legendary NHL coach and current senior adviser for hockey operations Scotty Bowman, has been with the Hawks' organization for eight seasons, including the last two as assistant general manager.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:49 am

I am really starting to hate John McCub. Stan Bowman is in charge of the cap, not Tallon. Tallon was a good GM and didn't deserve this.

Edit: And this has nothing to do with the RFA's because Stan Bowman is just as responsible for that. Tallon and McDonnough haven't gotten along since day one, and the Hawks are making a mistake by allowing a marketing guy to have this much control over the team.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby F Keenan » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:34 am

Maybe if Tallon had put a quality product on the ice he would still have a job....... oh wait.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:06 am

F Keenan wrote:Maybe if Tallon had put a quality product on the ice he would still have a job....... oh wait.


:lol: Exactly.

The Blackhawks convention is coming up. When I see McCub, I'm going to lay into him for this, and from the sounds of it I'm not the only one with that intention.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby SIU LAW » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:10 am

Link

The only real surprise: Tallon's exit didn't come sooner
By Barry Rozner | Daily Herald


As was the case with Denis Savard, Dale Tallon should have never had the job.

And as was the case with Savard, John McDonough had only so much patience with so much incompetence.

The real surprise is that the team president waited as long as he did to fire Tallon, who was removed from the job Monday.

There was plenty of talk last week that Tallon was finished after he bungled qualifying offers to several restricted free agents, including Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker.

But it really goes back to last summer, when the Blackhawks brought in Scotty Bowman to look over Tallon's shoulder.

At that moment, Stan Bowman became the GM-in-waiting and Al MacIsaac became McDonough's right-hand man.

Tallon was already finished, whether he knew it or not, and McDonough was merely waiting to see if Tallon could deliver a team good enough to make the Stanley Cup Finals before Tallon made another big mistake.

He was entering the final year of his contract and if he didn't win the Cup next season, he was most certainly finished anyway.

What's shocking is that he got this far to begin with, considering how he began his management career.

Tallon became close friends with Peter Wirtz, and so Tallon got whatever he wanted.

That's the way it worked in those days.

Tallon wanted to leave the broadcast booth and become an executive, so Wirtz made it happen.

They brought Billy Gardner in from Carolina to take Tallon's place in the booth, but when Tallon decided he didn't want to work for the very bizarre Mike Smith, the Hawks fired Gardner, and Tallon went back to broadcasting.

And to this day, no one, including Tallon, has apologized to Gardner.

Once Smith was gone, Tallon was back in the front office and on the fast track to becoming GM.

Peter Wirtz handed him the job and they hired Trent Yawney to be the coach, a smart move since Yawney had developed the Hawks' best young players, including a few still with the team today.

But when the coach wouldn't play the GM's favorite players, high draft picks or expensive free agents, choosing instead to play those who had earned their playing time, Tallon panicked and fired one of the best young coaches in the game, who had given 15 years of his life to the sweater he loved.

Tallon was effective in scouting and drafting, though as high as the Hawks were picking - because they were so bad - they should have been getting good players and improving the product.

They did, but then Tallon unwisely wasted huge sums of money on big free agents Brian Campbell and Cristobal Huet.

He butchered the cap situation to the point where the Hawks have already spent $43 million in 2010-11 when the cap is expected to fall to about $50 million, and it doesn't include new contracts for Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith, which will put the Hawks at about $60 million for roughly half a roster.

So Tallon was on very thin ice even before the recent qualifying-offer fiasco that forced the Hawks to overpay in new deals for Versteeg and Barker.

That was the final straw, and there was talk over the weekend that Tallon wouldn't make it to the upcoming convention.

Turns out he did not.

It didn't help that Tallon has been telling people around the league - or having ex-Hawks employee Rick Dudley, a Tallon pal, tell people around the league - that McDonough was a nightmare to work for and blaming the team president for the signings of Campbell and Huet.

That kind of stuff gets around fast, and people all around the league have been talking about how dysfunctional the Hawks' front office had become, with so many voices pulling in so many different directions.

Those days are now officially over, as are the ways of the past.

Rocky Wirtz doesn't work like his father or his brother, and there are no more handouts on West Madison Street.

Tallon is a very popular man among the fans, and just like with the firing of Savard, there's going to be a backlash.

But that lasted only as long as it took them to see what a professional coach could do.

And, similarly, it won't take them long to see what a professional GM can do.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:39 am

Good article SIU, but I have to disagree with the tone of Rozner's words. Let me first say that I'm not a Tallon apologist, and he did sometimes make me mad. That said, he WAS a good GM, especially for a guy learning on the fly.

First, I agree that the treatment of Billy Gardner by the organization is inexcusable. He is a good guy, and a great radio broadcaster. He deserved better from the team.

About the "pro-McDonnough" sentiments of the article. I have met the guy, and he is extremely nice...of course he is, he's a marketing "genius". The Hawks hired him away from the Cubs for one reason...to fill the building. That's it. He's not a baseball man, look at the hilarity that is the Cubs. He's not a hockey man either. This is his first hockey job, and he's nothing but a marketing man (a very good one, admittedly) but he has far too much input into the daily hockey operations. Stick to beanie baby promotions and let the real managers manage. It IS his fault that we're handcuffed by Huet and especially Campbell's contracts. He was very vocal in getting guys who can be put on billboards along the highway, and those two were the highest hyped players at their position during that free-agency period. He flexed his clout and forced Tallon to sign these guys, but he's not the one falling on the axe because of those terrible decisions. He won't be held accountable because he fills the building, which is also the only thing he was successful at with the Cubs.

On to the coaching. Rozner talks about Yawney and Tallon not getting along. Yawney deserved the job due to the success he had in Norfolk developing the future. I was happy with the decision to hire him, but he was not a good coach at the NHL level. it has nothing to do with Tallon pressuring him to play certain players. Yawney was trying to copy the NJ style of defense-only when we weren't built for that game, something he should have known going in since he coached many of these players at the AHL level.

Lastly, Stan Bowman is not his dad, and he's not the answer. I can't say that it's ALL his fault without giving some of the blame to Tallon, but Bowman's job was specifically the salary cap. Any and all signings made by Dale Tallon were reviewed by the then-assistant GM Stan Bowman, who then ran the numbers prior to signing anything. If Tallon is going to be blamed for that, Bowman should receive his share. Dale Tallon did make me mad at times. The signings of guys like Cullimore, Aucoin, Perrault, etc will go down as some of the worst in the history of the team. He also brought us Khabibulin, Havlat, drafted Towes and Kane when they were NOT considered sure bets (some wanted us to take Turris first overall). Did he overpay guys at times? Sure, but that's when no one would come to Chicago unless they were shown the money.

I'm surprised at the team, and I'm surprised at Barry Rozner. He's usually a decent writer when it comes to the Hawks, but he's missed the boat on this one. Maybe he's in the team's pocket, I don't know, but it's absurd to take the management's side in this fight.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby SIU LAW » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:05 pm

Interesting stuff Ruutu15. You clearly follow the Hawks' inner workings more closely than the rest of us here. I didn't know what was fact or fiction in that article.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby theohall » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:11 pm

Part of the problem some local sportswriters have, regardless of city, is not wanting to risk ticking off management in fear of having their access to the team limited. Depends on the owner and management, but it does happen. Not sure if that's the case with the Hawks, but it's worth considering when a writers goes that far out of his way in an article to side with management.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:59 am

Link

Darren Dreger, TSN.ca wrote:Sentiment - bordering on outrage - best describes how many NHL people responded to the news of Dale Tallon's dismissal as general manager of the Chicago Blackhawks.

However, anyone shocked by this move by team president John McDonough didn't pay attention to the constant speculation of Tallon's demise at varying points of the season.

Some close to the organization believe McDonough was looking for an opportunity to make his move which was made very difficult by Chicago's trip to the western conference final and a season most around the league would consider a great success.

There's no question the Blackhawks' recent fumble with qualifying offers (that weren't filed on time for the team's restricted free agents) was an enormous unforced error and while it has been suggested Tallon wasn't responsible for the blunder, as GM he took responsibility.

Was this mistake - as costly as it turned out to be - really his undoing?

What we know is there is a groundswell of sympathy for Tallon, who, upon learning his fate, was also handed a two-year contract to act as an advisor at the same rate of pay he was earning as Chicago's general manager.

This groundswell also extends to former Blackhawks forward Martin Havlat, who - through the direct link of Twitter - continues to tease Hawks fans with suggestive tweets that indicate Dale Tallon's firing was very predictable. "Tip of the iceberg," Havlat wrote in one tweet. In another, he asked, "shouldn't fans know the truth?"

Shortly after that, Havlat's Twitter account crashed because of an overload of responses.

Yes, Chicago Blackhawks fans want to know the truth.

They want to know what Havlat believes led to Tallon's firing.

Hawks fans want to understand how a negotiation that lasted better than three months, focused on keeping Havlat a Hawk long term and involved his agent Allan Walsh, Tallon and now Chicago's newest GM, Stan Bowman, mysteriously eroded.

Aside from reaching out via Twitter, Havlat has been silent and wants to move on and focus on his new home and opportunity with the Minnesota Wild. However, Havlat also wants to clear the air and set the record straight and has offered his thoughts exclusively to TSN.ca on a number of issues he observed while in Chicago, starting with his failed negotiation.

"My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale and my agent, it was between Dale and McDonough," Havlat said "Why? Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last place team to making the Conference Final in three short years. Remember, we were also the youngest team in the NHL last year."

"I was too closely identified with Dale," he continued. "McDonough knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could claim as his own He wanted to stand up at the convention and claim credit for signing this guy or that guy."

Havlat's candor won't be easily accepted by the Blackhawks, and there may be claims of this being nothing more than the backlash of a jilted player, but Havlat's appreciation for Dale Tallon is what drove him to speak up mere hours after Tallon's firing was confirmed.

"Dale and I were very close and I stand for loyalty. The players loved Dale and they are with him. Every single player on that team is with Dale. I still talk to the guys all the time, hockey players know a phony when they see one."

"I was part of a very special team but that team doesn't exist anymore. I am really disappointed that Rocky Wirtz would let something like this happen," Havlat told TSN.ca.

Havlat's parting request follows up on a tweet sent on Tuesday. A challenge for the Blackhawks faithful who may share his views on Chicago's future.

"It's up to the fans now to be heard on this. If you care about the direction of the team, do something about it," Havlat concluded.

That's powerful stuff from a player who loved Chicago, loved the Blackhawks organization, and clearly has a deep connection with Dale Tallon, now the former general manager.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby SIU LAW » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 am

Wow.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby Ruutu15 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:06 am

SIU LAW wrote:Wow.


Seriously! I'm glad Marty tells it how it is, though.
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Re: Hawks make a costly blunder?

Postby section319 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:50 pm

So, is there video of Kane crying over this latest firing?
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