Kariya

Discuss the St. Louis Blues, the NHL, or anything hockey.

Moderator: LGB Mods

Kariya

Postby TheoSqua » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:05 pm

cprice12 wrote:And signing Kariya has turned out to be a waste of money, even though I liked the move at the time. Kariya looks done in the NHL..


Having not watched a lot of the games this year, what has Kariya lost that's turned him from a potential offensive leader to a guy on the PK?

He looked great during the start of last season, and i figured getting his hips fixed would make him even better. He looked great the first few games of the season that I watched. And now, ???.

Has he lost his speed? Accuracy? Any ideas?
Official LGB Sponser of 4 year old signatures:
Image
User avatar
TheoSqua
3rd Line Grinder
3rd Line Grinder
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Kariya

Postby kodos » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:11 pm

He's just getting old and it shows. It's not that he's so terrible, he's just not worth the 6 million bucks at this point.

6 million bucks should get you a premier talent in this day and age.
Image
User avatar
kodos
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 11893
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:05 pm

Re: Kariya

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:12 pm

TheoSqua wrote:
cprice12 wrote:And signing Kariya has turned out to be a waste of money, even though I liked the move at the time. Kariya looks done in the NHL..


Having not watched a lot of the games this year, what has Kariya lost that's turned him from a potential offensive leader to a guy on the PK?

He looked great during the start of last season, and i figured getting his hips fixed would make him even better. He looked great the first few games of the season that I watched. And now, ???.

Has he lost his speed? Accuracy? Any ideas?

He was playing with McClement and Crombeen last night if that gives you any idea as to why he's not scoring much...

And he's turned into a fine 3rd line checker in Andy Murray's system.

:roll:
Official 2008-2013 LGB Sponsor of Barret Jackman
Official 2013-2014 LGB Sponsor of Barret Jackman
User avatar
not_a_wings_fan
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
 
Posts: 3086
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:27 pm
Location: Anywhere but here

Re: Kariya

Postby VictorManthing » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:16 pm

He looks scared and frustrated to me. He floats around and seems unwilling to pay the price to either skate hard or go into the tough areas for pucks. My opinion is that it's all in his head.
Let's Go Blooze!!!
VictorManthing
3rd Line Grinder
3rd Line Grinder
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Upper Bowl

Re: Kariya

Postby illownyou » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:20 pm

BSF

Bigger, Stronger, Faster...

He still has great speed, but he is small and he seems to have forgotten how to remain effective despite his size.

I think he needs to be traded.
Formerly known as ledzeppelinfan1...
User avatar
illownyou
1st Line Sniper
1st Line Sniper
 
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:48 pm
Location: In your head...

Re: Kariya

Postby cprice12 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:23 pm

He works hard, but he just gets pushed off of the puck too easy and is constantly wedged off of the puck along the boards.
He never seems to be able to get his shot off in a good scoring position. When he does get shots off, he is at a horrible angle.
He's not coming even remotely close to earning his money...which means he needs to go, because he's wasting money that could be used on someone else who may be a good investment and be worth the money, which means he is hurting the team.

Working hard doesn't mean much to me if you aren't getting results. I can go out there and work my ass off for this team, but it's not going to help them win.

Just put up W's...I don't care how.
Image
Image
User avatar
cprice12
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19488
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Center Ice

Re: Kariya

Postby glen a richter » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:28 pm

he lost his youth.

I obviously have seen very few games, being here in New York and all, and the online feeds that I've watched have been choppy at best, so I can't say with a degree of complete certainty and I'll ask this... does it seem as though Kariya and the other vets are sucking in part because they just can't keep up with the speed of the younger guys?
Official sponsor of Ian Cole 2011-2012
Official sponsor of Gary Bettman's Pink Slip 2013
Official sponsor of Dmitrij Jaskin 2013-2014
glen a richter
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Kariya

Postby ohio BLUES » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:39 pm

glen a richter wrote:he lost his youth.

I obviously have seen very few games, being here in New York and all, and the online feeds that I've watched have been choppy at best, so I can't say with a degree of complete certainty and I'll ask this... does it seem as though Kariya and the other vets are sucking in part because they just can't keep up with the speed of the younger guys?

Kariya still has the speed to keep up, but he no longer has the speed to blow past guys, which always helped because he is tiny out there. So instead of cutting around guys in the offensive zone, he pulls up and looks to pass to people who aren't open or are wearing the other jersey. Repeat, fail, repeat, etc.

His even strength effectiveness is gone, but taking him off the power play where he at least has a chance to exercise some skill... that just kills me.
Image

Official LGB.com Sponsor of Gymrat Ken Hitchcock
User avatar
ohio BLUES
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 10346
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:42 pm

Re: Kariya

Postby kodos » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:39 pm

Here's some fun...

This is the amount of money our "scoring" forwards are getting paid per point.

(It's their yearly salary, pro-rated for 17 games, divided by points scored... I did not factor in any games missed due to injury)

Kariya $180,000 per point
(Paid $1,260,000 for 7 points)

Backes $177,000 per point
(Paid $530,000 for 3 points)

McDonald $82,000 per point
(Paid $980,000 for 12 points)

Boyes $76,000 per point
(Paid $840,000 for 11 points)

Berglund $67,500 per point
(Paid $270,000 for 4 points)

Tkachuk $60,000 per point
(Paid $540,000 for 9 points)

Oshie $45,000 per point
(Paid $270,000 for 6 points)

Perron $17,000 per point
(Paid $190,000 for 11 points)
Last edited by kodos on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image
User avatar
kodos
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 11893
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:05 pm

Re: Kariya

Postby ohio BLUES » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:41 pm

180 large just doesn't buy what it used to. :facepalm:
Image

Official LGB.com Sponsor of Gymrat Ken Hitchcock
User avatar
ohio BLUES
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 10346
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:42 pm

Re: Kariya

Postby glen a richter » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:46 pm

zomg, Backes has 37 points already?

I think you have a wee bit of a typo there....
Official sponsor of Ian Cole 2011-2012
Official sponsor of Gary Bettman's Pink Slip 2013
Official sponsor of Dmitrij Jaskin 2013-2014
glen a richter
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Kariya

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:50 pm

I agree that Kariya's numbers haven't been worth 6 mil. But he did get folks re-engergized about the Blues and a lot of folks bought into this currenty ownership group/regime when he was signed. It showed that the Blues were serious when they went out and got a marquee (at the time) free agent on a team struggling to find talent and an identity.

I'm not sure if that was worth 6 million smackeroos a year, but you have to admit, it did help this club inch closer back to respectability. I mean...they've at least got expectations on them now, whereas that wasn't the case even 11 months ago. That's not all Pauly's doing, but it signaled the start of things kicking in after drafting Oshie, EJ, Berglund, Eller, Cole, and Perron, etc.
Image

Official 2013-2014 Sponsor Extraordinaire of Alex "Petro" Pietrangelo
User avatar
dmiles2186
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 5904
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach

Re: Kariya

Postby kodos » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:52 pm

glen a richter wrote:zomg, Backes has 37 points already?

I think you have a wee bit of a typo there....



Yeah, it should be a 3. I fixed it.

In other news... DAVID BACKES HAS THREE F***ING POINTS THIS YEAR.
Image
User avatar
kodos
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 11893
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:05 pm

Re: Kariya

Postby big d note » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:58 pm

In his time in Nashville and when he first came to St. Louis, it seemed like Kariya had one really effective move that he used a lot. He would carry the puck across the blue line with speed, getting the defenseman to skate backwards quickly to cover him, and then suddenly pull up short. The defenseman would take a second to react and stop moving backwards, which gave Kariya just enough separation to either slide over and take a shot or dish the puck off to somebody else following him into the zone. I think I've seen him do that once all year, and I don't know why.

He has never been very effective at the point on the power play, but Murray kept using him there. With EJ, Cola, and Petro, I don't see why Kariya should be on the point. Put him down low where he can cycle and get the puck to Tkachuk in front of the net.
Official Sponsor of Ray Barile
[Dooger] 9:10 am: That David [Backes] is a cool dude.
RIP Pavol Demitra - I hope you are "so hoppy" wherever you are now
User avatar
big d note
LGB Booster - Yellow
LGB Booster - Yellow
 
Posts: 4576
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:33 pm
Location: SMP's Posse

Re: Kariya

Postby glen a richter » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:58 pm

It's funny, we were talking about this very thing at work recently, about how Alex Rodriguez gets paid more for 2 strikeouts than we get paid for an entire years salary.

These numbers are outrageous. Earn your overbloated paychecks, guys.
Official sponsor of Ian Cole 2011-2012
Official sponsor of Gary Bettman's Pink Slip 2013
Official sponsor of Dmitrij Jaskin 2013-2014
glen a richter
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Kariya

Postby northwest dave » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:59 pm

not_a_wings_fan wrote:
TheoSqua wrote:
cprice12 wrote:And signing Kariya has turned out to be a waste of money, even though I liked the move at the time. Kariya looks done in the NHL..


Having not watched a lot of the games this year, what has Kariya lost that's turned him from a potential offensive leader to a guy on the PK?

He looked great during the start of last season, and i figured getting his hips fixed would make him even better. He looked great the first few games of the season that I watched. And now, ???.

Has he lost his speed? Accuracy? Any ideas?

He was playing with McClement and Crombeen last night if that gives you any idea as to why he's not scoring much...

And he's turned into a fine 3rd line checker in Andy Murray's system.

:roll:


He's been demoted for a reason. It's been 10 games since he had a goal...that would be Oct 20th. He hasn't had an assist since Oct 23rd.

If he wasn't demoted, people would complain that Murray is too easy on the vets.

To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable.
User avatar
northwest dave
LGB Booster - Blue
LGB Booster - Blue
 
Posts: 4619
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:56 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Kariya

Postby Sweetred95ta » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:43 am

Paul Kariya is an offensive guy playing in a defensive system. He has never been a defensive star. He's scored almost a 1,000 points in his career and is only a plus 35. What do you guys expect his production to be like?
I love hockey. Period.
User avatar
Sweetred95ta
2nd Line Scorer
2nd Line Scorer
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:25 am
Location: Arnold, MO

Re: Kariya

Postby drwoland » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:16 pm

Paul Kariya isn't scoring for the same reason that Boyes and Berglund aren't scoring. Why aren't those two on the PP together like they were early last year, when they were KILLING it?

Oh that's right. Murray has dementia, so he doesn't remember.
Image
User avatar
drwoland
All-Star
All-Star
 
Posts: 1862
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Having a stroke in FlashChat

Re: Kariya

Postby ViPeRx007 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:35 pm

glen a richter wrote:It's funny, we were talking about this very thing at work recently, about how Alex Rodriguez gets paid more for 2 strikeouts than we get paid for an entire years salary.

These numbers are outrageous. Earn your overbloated paychecks, guys.


Yea ESPN was kind enough to put together a little calculator comparing yours and my salary to various professional athletes. It's only slightly disheartening, at least in my case. Maybe there are some jammy bastards in here who make bank but I really doubt it would still compare to these....

Salary Crunch
Image
2013-2014 Official LGB Sponsor of Kevin Shattenkirk
2012-2013 Official LGB Sponsor of Ryan Reaves
2011-2012 Official LGB Sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko
2010-2011 Official LGB Sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko
User avatar
ViPeRx007
LGB Booster - Yellow
LGB Booster - Yellow
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: Billings, MT

Re: Kariya

Postby DaDitka » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:13 pm

cprice12 wrote:He works hard, but he just gets pushed off of the puck too easy and is constantly wedged off of the puck along the boards.
He never seems to be able to get his shot off in a good scoring position. When he does get shots off, he is at a horrible angle.


This is a perfect description of Paulie’s play right now.

It isn’t his effort. It’s lack of execution, and he’s getting the big bucks for results, not effort.
Image

2012-2013 Official LGB Sponsor of Patrik 'Bulan' Berglund
User avatar
DaDitka
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
 
Posts: 2800
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:21 pm
Location: sailing with the Captain

Next

Return to St. Louis Blues Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests