W. T. F.

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Re: W. T. F.

Postby tjk002 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:42 pm

Oshie slightly > Tyson Nash or Ian Lappariere
Bergland =< Michal Handzus

Hate to burst your bubble, but the only Blue's youngster who has the skill to possbily net 30 on a consistent basis is David Peron.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby WaukeeBlues » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:48 pm

tjk002 wrote:Oshie slightly > Tyson Nash or Ian Lappariere
Bergland =< Michal Handzus

Hate to burst your bubble, but the only Blue's youngster who has the skill to possbily net 30 on a consistent basis is David Peron.


And again, all these put-downs on Berglund/Oshie etc are on guys who have played a year and a half in the NHL. That's also pretty harsh.

I guess I just trust management. The montra is getting old on the "build from within" but it's an unfortunate truth that these things take time. And even more patience is expected from us :?

I've never seen a team with dedicated & intelligent ownership that balances its free agent spending with consistent and smart high draft choices suck for all of eternity. It just doesn't happen.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby TheoSqua » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:18 pm

tjk002 wrote:Oshie slightly > Tyson Nash or Ian Lappariere
Bergland =< Michal Handzus

Hate to burst your bubble, but the only Blue's youngster who has the skill to possbily net 30 on a consistent basis is David Peron.


Except that Oshie has already exceeded the highest season point totals of both Ian Laparriere and Tyson Nash, and Berglund's point totals from last season have already exceeded Handzus's career average season point total.

Oshie >>>> Nash or Lap and Berglund has far far more potential than Handzus, those are silly comparisons.

Saying Berglund may one day become a Joe Thornton or that Oshie will become a 100 point player is definitely overkill, but to compare them to middling muckers and third line players is also a gross misjudgment.

As for those saying this team doesn't have enough big stars to be a winner, that's just not true. A team with really solid depth can also be a winner in the NHL. Phoenix is currently 4th in the Western conference and doesn't have a single player over 30 points, they just have 8 players over 20, Nashville is identical. That's the sort of direction this team will have to go.

This team just needs to replace the likes of BJ Crombeen and Brad Winchester with players who can put up 30-40 points in the NHL. You can't have a line that isn't putting up points without a top line to compensate. Instead the Blues will need players that can both defend their net and chip in on offense. If we had 3 Jay McClements, we'd have a good checking line. Alex Steen is someone who fits that bill.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby northwest dave » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:19 pm

tjk002 wrote:Oshie slightly > Tyson Nash or Ian Lappariere
Bergland =< Michal Handzus

Hate to burst your bubble, but the only Blue's youngster who has the skill to possbily net 30 on a consistent basis is David Peron.


Except when Oshie hits Rick Nash, Nash goes flying. When Tyson Nash hit something, he fell down like a house fly.

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Re: W. T. F.

Postby stlbluz » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:13 pm

Damn this is the best thread that I've seen here in a LONG time!!
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby ilhockeyguy » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:06 pm

Last year I was the hopeless optimist. I said it in December that his team would make the playoffs. I truly believed it. I thought we were talented enough at that time to make it and we did.

This year I'm not so sure we can make it to 10th in the conference. What did we really do in the offseason? We bought out McKee (didn't that guy lose a finger, only to have it reattached, for this team blocking shots???), didn't resign Hinote (maybe not a great player, but definitely rumored to be a good personality in the locker room), and let Woywhichway go. We brought in Darryl Sydor, an aging vertan who is way past his prime, and Ty Conklin who is at best a backup goalie, not a 1a like everyone was clammoring to because he had a few good games. That's it....we kept Winchester and Crombeen, who, for a lack of better terms, SUCK. We kept Walt...who several think was a poor signing and many more on here are screaming to have traded because he isn't performing. Wait...isn't performing? he's third on the team in points....pretty good for a 36 year old vet who's not performing...on pace for 45 points...from the 3rd line. All I'm saying about that is get off Walt....you want to pick on a vet not performing,pick on Sydor, Kariya, Jackman, etc. Another thing...Get over Weaver's play...he's been the most solid dman we've had all year....

So moving on...

Am I ready to give up on this team? Nah. Am I thinking about not renewing my season tickets?? Sure. I am paying for a product on the ice that I'm not receiving. Honestly, I almost want to ask for a refund. Management will have a hard time convincing me to renew if they raise prices.

I just wish that we'd make a move to get someone who's proven and let a few of these "future stars" go. I want results now. Like someone said earlier....you can't keep a cup winner together forever, and I hate to say it, but Oshie, Perron, Berglund, EJ, Eller, Cole, Palushaij, and Pie won't play together for more than a few seasons before they are lost to better offers. I want a playoff run now.....make a move Larry.

That's all of my pointless rant
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:14 am

ilhockeyguy wrote:Last year I was the hopeless optimist. I said it in December that his team would make the playoffs. I truly believed it. I thought we were talented enough at that time to make it and we did.

This year I'm not so sure we can make it to 10th in the conference. What did we really do in the offseason? We bought out McKee (didn't that guy lose a finger, only to have it reattached, for this team blocking shots???), didn't resign Hinote (maybe not a great player, but definitely rumored to be a good personality in the locker room), and let Woywhichway go. We brought in Darryl Sydor, an aging vertan who is way past his prime, and Ty Conklin who is at best a backup goalie, not a 1a like everyone was clammoring to because he had a few good games. That's it....we kept Winchester and Crombeen, who, for a lack of better terms, SUCK. We kept Walt...who several think was a poor signing and many more on here are screaming to have traded because he isn't performing. Wait...isn't performing? he's third on the team in points....pretty good for a 36 year old vet who's not performing...on pace for 45 points...from the 3rd line. All I'm saying about that is get off Walt....you want to pick on a vet not performing,pick on Sydor, Kariya, Jackman, etc. Another thing...Get over Weaver's play...he's been the most solid dman we've had all year....

So moving on...

Am I ready to give up on this team? Nah. Am I thinking about not renewing my season tickets?? Sure. I am paying for a product on the ice that I'm not receiving. Honestly, I almost want to ask for a refund. Management will have a hard time convincing me to renew if they raise prices.

I just wish that we'd make a move to get someone who's proven and let a few of these "future stars" go. I want results now. Like someone said earlier....you can't keep a cup winner together forever, and I hate to say it, but Oshie, Perron, Berglund, EJ, Eller, Cole, Palushaij, and Pie won't play together for more than a few seasons before they are lost to better offers. I want a playoff run now.....make a move Larry.

That's all of my pointless rant


Your rant was certainly not pointless.

I do disagree with a few things though. Conkin = best free agent signing we've had in a long, long time. Yes he's fluky at times but his is the veteran presence we needed at backup. That was an incredibly great move.

In Walt's defense, he can still pot 20 some goals a year for a 3rd/4th liner. I mean what do you want? For the price we're getting him at, that's amazing. And this year, 10 goals halfway through the season, on pace for 20. I have no complaints on Walt personally.

The problem with trading the "future stars" is where do you stop? It's either trade everyone and chug along or keep losing and drafting and hope for the best. For the first time in Blues history, we got like 5 or 6 first rounders in two seasons. I refuse to believe that that kind of drafting strategy will account for nothing. My personal opinion- it's too early to tell. Some disagree. Oh well. More patience. I hate to say it. More patience.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby ohio BLUES » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:27 am

kodos wrote:The bitter truth is that our youngsters aren't as good as we like to think they are.

It sucks to realize and admit this, but it's the truth.

We are the laughingstock of the NHL.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby DaDitka » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:30 am

WaukeeBlues wrote:I do disagree with a few things though. Conkin = best free agent signing we've had in a long, long time. Yes he's fluky at times but his is the veteran presence we needed at backup. That was an incredibly great move..


Exactly, especially as much as Mason has struggled...thank god we have Conkin back there. Of course at times I wonder if Conkin’s hot stretch there for a little while has Mason screwed up in the head. There is little excuse for how bad he’s played of late (not goals against as much as positioning and simply not seeing the puck)

My guess is Conkin and Bishop are a 1a/1b combo next season (at least to start and then you ride the hot hand).



WaukeeBlues wrote:In Walt's defense, he can still pot 20 some goals a year for a 3rd/4th liner. I mean what do you want? For the price we're getting him at, that's amazing. And this year, 10 goals halfway through the season, on pace for 20. I have no complaints on Walt personally.



Agreed, but…..

Walt is a solid third or fourth line guy and comes at a fair price. What I don’t like is when management or the coaching staff expects too much out of him. It seems to me they expect 30 some odd goals out of him and therefore say “Well, that’s one 30 goal guy we’ve got so we don’t have to get someone.” If they would view/approach him as a Jay Mc kind of guy I’d be much more comfortable.

Furthermore, get him off the damn power play. Murray playing him in the halfboards was ridiculous, and I know tons of people will say “Put him in front of the net”, which was a great theory tears ago when he could actually move. IF you’ve watched this year numerous times he’s had a juicy rebound begging to be knocked home and he’s simply too slow. You wouldn’t believe how many people have argued this point with me and then watched and said…”I see what you’re saying”. So if someone doesn’t agree, don’t make some stupid ‘Nuh-Uh!’ post, what him a few games and see. (Just not tonight, because it seems every time I bash Walt, he scores)
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby thedoc » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:53 am

Maybe if we sacraficed a chicken or something to the hockey gods we could start scoring goals. I would say offer up the DaDitka to them, but I want to drink at Thursday's game and I need him to drive.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby The Flake » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:33 pm

ohio BLUES wrote:
kodos wrote:The bitter truth is that our youngsters aren't as good as we like to think they are.

It sucks to realize and admit this, but it's the truth.

We are the laughingstock of the NHL.



No. I think Columbus or Toronto would fit that bill. There are changes that need to be made and have already started to happen but thats going way to far.

Since you are from the Columbus area...do you think they are going to get rid of Hitch or does he stay. If they did can him, he would be perfect for the Blues. I just keep thinking that the Stars team he coached looks alot like the current day Blues. Lots of 20 to 30 goal guys...no superstar...hardcore team defence...i dunno...just thinking out loud.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby fargoblues » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:55 pm

The Flake wrote:
ohio BLUES wrote:
kodos wrote:The bitter truth is that our youngsters aren't as good as we like to think they are.

It sucks to realize and admit this, but it's the truth.

We are the laughingstock of the NHL.



No. I think Columbus or Toronto would fit that bill. There are changes that need to be made and have already started to happen but thats going way to far.

Since you are from the Columbus area...do you think they are going to get rid of Hitch or does he stay. If they did can him, he would be perfect for the Blues. I just keep thinking that the Stars team he coached looks alot like the current day Blues. Lots of 20 to 30 goal guys...no superstar...hardcore team defence...i dunno...just thinking out loud.


Respectfully disagree. OK, maybe not so respectfully.

I do NOT want Fat Bastard coaching the Blues.

That is all.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby glen a richter » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:01 pm

Of course if the young kids suck long enough, they can all be secured to long term, dirt cheap contracts and then blossom as megastars all on the same team at the same time.....

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Re: W. T. F.

Postby goon attack » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:28 pm

Look you pansies: This is still a TRANSITIONAL period. These youngsters are doing well. Johnson's upside is TREMENDOUS.

You people just need to calm down, man. Once Tkachuk is jettisoned as he should be and we bring in one or two more guys, then we will be on our way.

This team needs to start playing like FRANKING ASSHOLES out there. Johnson needs to let his mean streak shine through if he wants to succeed. Polak needs to MAN UP.

I also support putting Winchester out there on the PP. Park that motherfreaker in front of the net and let him learn the hard way. Let's see what he can do. Once Walt is out of here (the sooner the better), who the hell is going to do that? Winchester is the only guy. Yeah, Backes could do that, but I favor giving Winchester a shot.

I predict a big, dominating win tonight.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby gaijin » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:04 pm

goon attack wrote:Look you pansies: This is still a TRANSITIONAL period. These youngsters are doing well. Johnson's upside is TREMENDOUS.

You people just need to calm down, man. Once Tkachuk is jettisoned as he should be and we bring in one or two more guys, then we will be on our way.

This team needs to start playing like FRANKING ASSHOLES out there. Johnson needs to let his mean streak shine through if he wants to succeed. Polak needs to MAN UP.

I also support putting Winchester out there on the PP. Park that motherfreaker in front of the net and let him learn the hard way. Let's see what he can do. Once Walt is out of here (the sooner the better), who the hell is going to do that? Winchester is the only guy. Yeah, Backes could do that, but I favor giving Winchester a shot.

I predict a big, dominating win tonight.


That's one of the things I liked about watching the Blackhawks game. Granted, we lost by three goals and I only got to watch the highlights on Yahoo, but it seemed like we made the Hawks pay physically for everything they got. The more physical things get, the more motivated the players should be.

More, please.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby Felix » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:41 pm

goon attack wrote:Look you pansies: This is still a TRANSITIONAL period. These youngsters are doing well. Johnson's upside is TREMENDOUS.


Completely agree.
But in my opinion we a still one-two top offensive payers away from being true contender and two-three years away players development wise.
Today I surfed hockeydb.com and discovered that all Chicago players except Toews and Kane were drafted before 2004. And their team sucked even after that. Only drafting Kane and Toews put Chicago on top. Of course one can mention signings of Campbell and Hossa before this season but without Toews and Kane Hawks would not had bright future before them.
Blues draft-wise are just opposite. All prospects that Blues rely on as a part of their future success were drafted after 2004 (With Swartz being 2004 1st round bust). It means that our prospects had less time to develop (let's hope Payne will help in this respect). Besides, our UFAs and vets has not pan out as expected.
So, my opinion is that we are just "Kane" and/or "Toews" and at least tow years away from being on top in the conference.
Do not kill me for that but I believe we'd better tank this season and draft in top 2 or top 3 (to take a future offensive star) rather than finish 18-20th, draft a player whom we'll wait for several years, continue being mediocre and thinking how to sell a farm for a star player.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby Nyghtewynd » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:49 pm

Do I get to keep paying for a "transitional period" when I re-up for tickets?
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby BF44 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:52 pm

Nyghtewynd wrote:Do I get to keep paying for a "transitional period" when I re-up for tickets?

You can choose not to buy tickets.....
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby goon attack » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:13 am

As some of you may have forgotten, getting a few really high draft picks during a rebuilding phase doesn't guarantee anything. Plenty of teams have rebuilt, only to fail and have to rebuild again or wallow in mediocrity or be successful yet not win it all. The Blackhawks are a great example. They aren't winning Cups and their fans are going to be griping like crazy just like we are now when they don't win one. There are always a handful of really good teams with really high hopes each year but only one wins. The Blackhawks have gone MUCH longer than we have of not winning a Cup yet they are being praised? That makes NO SENSE.

Another thing: you don't need to have a Crosby type to win a Cup. Who did Carolina have? What you do need is stellar goaltending and a core of players that play well together and are committed to the system and to winning. And also, you need leadership and professionalism ACROSS THE ROSTER not just in one or two people. If you have even a couple of guys mailing it in, you aren't going to win. it's got to be total or it's no good.

Also, you need guys who can MAKE FRANKING PLAYS when it counts on ALL FOUR LINES. If you don't have that, you don't have a cup. And those guys can't be pansies.

basically, if anybody is mailing it in, they should not be a part of the St. Louis Blues organ-EYE-zation.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby Nyghtewynd » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:41 am

BF44 wrote:
Nyghtewynd wrote:Do I get to keep paying for a "transitional period" when I re-up for tickets?

You can choose not to buy tickets.....


Yes. Yes, I can. And, frankly, as long as the team keeps performing like this, it seems to make a lot more sense to drop my season tickets for Center Ice and take advantage of the ninety-three ticket deals that seem to come around all season rather than paying nearly full-price a few months before the season starts.
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