W. T. F.

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Re: W. T. F.

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:34 pm

Felix wrote:
goon attack wrote:Look you pansies: This is still a TRANSITIONAL period. These youngsters are doing well. Johnson's upside is TREMENDOUS.


Completely agree.
But in my opinion we a still one-two top offensive payers away from being true contender and two-three years away players development wise.
Today I surfed hockeydb.com and discovered that all Chicago players except Toews and Kane were drafted before 2004. And their team sucked even after that. Only drafting Kane and Toews put Chicago on top. Of course one can mention signings of Campbell and Hossa before this season but without Toews and Kane Hawks would not had bright future before them.
Blues draft-wise are just opposite. All prospects that Blues rely on as a part of their future success were drafted after 2004 (With Swartz being 2004 1st round bust). It means that our prospects had less time to develop (let's hope Payne will help in this respect). Besides, our UFAs and vets has not pan out as expected.
So, my opinion is that we are just "Kane" and/or "Toews" and at least tow years away from being on top in the conference.
Do not kill me for that but I believe we'd better tank this season and draft in top 2 or top 3 (to take a future offensive star) rather than finish 18-20th, draft a player whom we'll wait for several years, continue being mediocre and thinking how to sell a farm for a star player.


As much as I hate their new groupie fans and whatnot, the Hawks ARE a good example to use. Aside from their brief stint when we beat them in the playoffs, they've sucked it up big time and tried 100 different things that didn't work.

At one point is was Ruutu-Arnason that were going to to take them to the top. Traded Arnason. Bochenski didn't work out, traded HIM. Ruutu got dealt. They switched gears, signing vets like Havlat, and for the first few years, that didn't work. Their defensemen were struggling mightily for the longest time before now, just this season and last (Seabrook, Keith, Barker, etc) really started to settle in and be powerful dmen. They drafted a TON of guys (a lot of whom didn't pan out or were traded) and took the better part of a decade to be team they are now. And even despite a penny-pinching owner.

It's just a lesson that when you do it this way- building from within and signing vets at the same time- it just takes time. None of us want to hear it but it's true. Hey, at least last year we started to see what this team COULD be and in my opinion WILL be.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby philco_3 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:53 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:As much as I hate their new groupie fans and whatnot, the Hawks ARE a good example to use. Aside from their brief stint when we beat them in the playoffs, they've sucked it up big time and tried 100 different things that didn't work.


I hate their new pucking fans. They don't know spit about hockey. The only thing they know how to do is run their mouths.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:28 pm

philco_3 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:As much as I hate their new groupie fans and whatnot, the Hawks ARE a good example to use. Aside from their brief stint when we beat them in the playoffs, they've sucked it up big time and tried 100 different things that didn't work.


I hate their new pucking fans. They don't know spit about hockey. The only thing they know how to do is run their mouths.


Don't forget their ability to buy Kane and Toews jerseys. ONLY Kane and Toews jerseys.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby philco_3 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:50 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
philco_3 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:As much as I hate their new groupie fans and whatnot, the Hawks ARE a good example to use. Aside from their brief stint when we beat them in the playoffs, they've sucked it up big time and tried 100 different things that didn't work.


I hate their new pucking fans. They don't know spit about hockey. The only thing they know how to do is run their mouths.


Don't forget their ability to buy Kane and Toews jerseys. ONLY Kane and Toews jerseys.


Well of course thats because its the only players they know. Belfour, Probert, Chelios, Roenick, Amonte...who the hell are they?
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:33 pm

philco_3 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
philco_3 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:As much as I hate their new groupie fans and whatnot, the Hawks ARE a good example to use. Aside from their brief stint when we beat them in the playoffs, they've sucked it up big time and tried 100 different things that didn't work.


I hate their new pucking fans. They don't know spit about hockey. The only thing they know how to do is run their mouths.


Don't forget their ability to buy Kane and Toews jerseys. ONLY Kane and Toews jerseys.


Well of course thats because its the only players they know. Belfour, Probert, Chelios, Roenick, Amonte...who the hell are they?


And who's that guy "Thigh-balt"? When did he play? :lol:
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby fargoblues » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:08 pm

Secord still sucks.

Carry on.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby Felix » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:12 am

WaukeeBlues wrote:
Felix wrote:
goon attack wrote:Look you pansies: This is still a TRANSITIONAL period. These youngsters are doing well. Johnson's upside is TREMENDOUS.


Completely agree.
But in my opinion we a still one-two top offensive payers away from being true contender and two-three years away players development wise.
Today I surfed hockeydb.com and discovered that all Chicago players except Toews and Kane were drafted before 2004. And their team sucked even after that. Only drafting Kane and Toews put Chicago on top. Of course one can mention signings of Campbell and Hossa before this season but without Toews and Kane Hawks would not had bright future before them.
Blues draft-wise are just opposite. All prospects that Blues rely on as a part of their future success were drafted after 2004 (With Swartz being 2004 1st round bust). It means that our prospects had less time to develop (let's hope Payne will help in this respect). Besides, our UFAs and vets has not pan out as expected.
So, my opinion is that we are just "Kane" and/or "Toews" and at least tow years away from being on top in the conference.
Do not kill me for that but I believe we'd better tank this season and draft in top 2 or top 3 (to take a future offensive star) rather than finish 18-20th, draft a player whom we'll wait for several years, continue being mediocre and thinking how to sell a farm for a star player.


As much as I hate their new groupie fans and whatnot, the Hawks ARE a good example to use. Aside from their brief stint when we beat them in the playoffs, they've sucked it up big time and tried 100 different things that didn't work.

At one point is was Ruutu-Arnason that were going to to take them to the top. Traded Arnason. Bochenski didn't work out, traded HIM. Ruutu got dealt. They switched gears, signing vets like Havlat, and for the first few years, that didn't work. Their defensemen were struggling mightily for the longest time before now, just this season and last (Seabrook, Keith, Barker, etc) really started to settle in and be powerful dmen. They drafted a TON of guys (a lot of whom didn't pan out or were traded) and took the better part of a decade to be team they are now. And even despite a penny-pinching owner.

It's just a lesson that when you do it this way- building from within and signing vets at the same time- it just takes time. None of us want to hear it but it's true. Hey, at least last year we started to see what this team COULD be and in my opinion WILL be.


You just wrote what I wanted to write too. They really had several tries to get on top and they did not work (especially Ruutu-Arnason). And just imagine how disappointed they were when they struggled for them.
I want to say that now wee need patience. Let's just wait and identify our core players and let's not be afraid to trade away any of our prospects whom management cannot see as our future.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby big d note » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:27 am

goon attack wrote:As some of you may have forgotten, getting a few really high draft picks during a rebuilding phase doesn't guarantee anything. Plenty of teams have rebuilt, only to fail and have to rebuild again or wallow in mediocrity or be successful yet not win it all. The Blackhawks are a great example. They aren't winning Cups and their fans are going to be griping like crazy just like we are now when they don't win one. There are always a handful of really good teams with really high hopes each year but only one wins. The Blackhawks have gone MUCH longer than we have of not winning a Cup yet they are being praised? That makes NO SENSE.

Another thing: you don't need to have a Crosby type to win a Cup. Who did Carolina have? What you do need is stellar goaltending and a core of players that play well together and are committed to the system and to winning. And also, you need leadership and professionalism ACROSS THE ROSTER not just in one or two people. If you have even a couple of guys mailing it in, you aren't going to win. it's got to be total or it's no good.

Also, you need guys who can MAKE FRANKING PLAYS when it counts on ALL FOUR LINES. If you don't have that, you don't have a cup. And those guys can't be pansies.

basically, if anybody is mailing it in, they should not be a part of the St. Louis Blues organ-EYE-zation.

:plusplus: Goon is making lots of sense in this thread. We need to rebuild the respect for the Bluenote and that team mentality. If Payne doesn't work out, I'd look at Guy Carbonneau as coach. We need more of that old school Montreal attitude. I think Carbonneau and Gainey had more to do with the Stars winning the Cup than Hitchcock did. Just say no to Hitchcock, please.
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Re: W. T. F.

Postby _Gassoff » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:25 pm

Franking A people, chill...

It's just a sophomore slump the guys are in. It will get better.

If we go all ballistic, and start trading away the core of this team, we are making the same mistake this franchise makes time and time again.

Ride out the slump. If the team can't put it together next season, then you have to make big changes.
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