Official NHL and NHLPA CBA Negotiations Thread

[Portland Blues]

:facepalm: What else should we have expected?

Right now the only thing we have to look forward to is who'll win the sig bet between Curt & Philco.

[cprice12]

Just read that meeting broke down after 90 minutes today with no new talks scheduled.

[abc789987]

http://canucksarmy.com/2012/11/12/jumping-to-conclusions-on-the-nhl-lockout-with-tom-smykowski

[Nyghtewynd]

I haven't missed hockey once yet. Not. Once. I miss the stuff AROUND hockey, but not the actual game. And if you're losing me, I'm not the only one by a longshot.

[philco_3]

I haven't missed hockey once yet. Not. Once. I miss the stuff AROUND hockey, but not the actual game. And if you're losing me, I'm not the only one by a longshot.

Honestly I am the same way. Ive been to busy with crap and havent really missed it. Ive been playing it on Sundays, I guess that is why.

[gaijin]

God, I miss it. Especially since the World Series ended. There's NFL on Sunday, but the rest of the week there's nothing.

Not like I ever got to watch NHL much when they do play- either I'm not home or it's not on any channels I get.

[theohall]

This is the reason I can't side with the owners in this at all.

The league is trying to reduce the amount of revenue that the players receive, but the players still want what is owed to them from recently signed contracts. The league is reportedly looking to offer "make whole" contracts for the first and second years, and Fehr was quick to point that the NHL does not plan on honoring the entirety of current contracts.

Several owners just signed players to absolutely ridiculous contracts which seemed to be the main reason these players chose to move to those teams. Now the owners don't want to honor the contracts???? Basically, the owners "make whole" proposal has the players reduced revenue coming out of their currently signed contracts. Why would any player ever accept that kind of deal after the owners were throwing money at FAs to get them to move??

Here is your shiny new 8 year contract to get you to play for the Minnesota Wild. Oh, sorry. We are only going to honor the first 2 years of that 8 year contract.

[sseagle]

I've been crying alone in the empty flashchat

ETA : Tentatively scheduled to meet again Monday, I can only assume December is chopped next Friday/Saturday, and then the season shortly after that.

[cardsfan04]

NHLPA offered 50/50 immediately w/o a guarantee. But, wants $393 million in "make whole" revenue instead of $211 million. That extra $182 million works out to $1.2 million/owner/year over the course of the 5 year proposal.

If this doesn't get a deal done, I don't see what will. $182 million seems like a lot. But, it's not that much spread out over 5 years of a $3+ billion/year business.

EDIT: Some of the other terms are coming out and it isn't quite as awesome of an offer as it first seemed. But, still, if this doesn't serve as the framework for negotiations, nothing ever will.

[cardsfan04]

I don't know why I get my hopes up. At the end of the day, Gary Bettman is still the commissioner.

[glen a richter]

We can't be all that far from a deadline for cancellation of the entire season...

[STLADOGG]

We can't be all that far from a deadline for cancellation of the entire season...

Wasn't it in January in 04-05 season when they did it?
Not much progress at all it sounds like, I can't see any NHL season.......

[theohall]

NHLPA offered 50/50 immediately w/o a guarantee. But, wants $393 million in "make whole" revenue instead of $211 million. That extra $182 million works out to $1.2 million/owner/year over the course of the 5 year proposal.

If this doesn't get a deal done, I don't see what will. $182 million seems like a lot. But, it's not that much spread out over 5 years of a $3+ billion/year business.

EDIT: Some of the other terms are coming out and it isn't quite as awesome of an offer as it first seemed. But, still, if this doesn't serve as the framework for negotiations, nothing ever will.

ZERO give from the Owners. This is not negotiation. Players should disband the Union and force the court thing. Any arbitrator would see the Owner are not giving up crap while simply refusing the NHLPA proposals. Heck, the latest NHLPA offer did not say crap about the contract stuff while the Owners are trying to essentially end any chance at free agency unless a player is in the league for 10 years.

[cardsfan04]

We can't be all that far from a deadline for cancellation of the entire season...

Wasn't it in January in 04-05 season when they did it?
Not much progress at all it sounds like, I can't see any NHL season.......

Even later. February 16. If a deal was struck on February 15, I don't know how they could have had a season though. Even playing 4 games/week for 10 weeks, they'd have only gotten ~40 games in by the end of April.

[Portland Blues]

Sorry Ohio - no All Star Game for you...

[ViPeRx007]

This is some serious bullshit.

[philco_3]

They shall play some time in 2013...hopefully

I'm surprised some arbitrator hasn't stepped in yet. First hockey, now Hostess...Dec 21, 2012...beginning of the end.

[glen a richter]

I was watching Cornell/UMich before. The product is just as good and if I chose to buy tickets to the game, which I could have, it would have been cheaper than an NHL tilt.

[cprice12]

Let's look at this from a different angle here.
Typically, negotiations in any dispute involve each side giving in on some items to come to a resolution.
But why do the owners have to give in at all if they do not want to?
Don't they own the teams? Aren't they the boss? Aren't they the ones who have their money at risk each season?

I think the players have had it far too good for far too long. Even after the last CBA where the owners got pretty much everything they wanted, the players still had a VERY cushy deal. (and they still will after the new CBA is signed...I guarantee you that)

Yes, it is BS that the owners want to roll back current contracts that THEY offered to players and they themselves signed off on. And there are legal issues with that I am sure. They need to honor those contracts. The NHLPA should just sue the league over that demand and be done with it.

But as far as everything else is concerned, why do the owners have to concede on anything else at all? They own the teams...they can do whatever the f*ck they want...it's their business to run. The players shouldn't even have a union. They don't need protection against unfair working conditions or subpar salaries/benefits, etc. They don't need to fight for better health care or a fair increase in wages to help keep up with inflation so they can afford to stay in their house and provide for their families. Hell, the players get pampered with an average salary of $2.4 million (more than the average NFL'er makes...and that doesn't include endorsements or their share of the league's profits), along with first rate facilities, catered meals on the road, top notch medical treatment & personnel, fans that worship them, etc, etc. all season long. You ever watch the shows where the cameras follow certain players around for 24 hours during the season? Players are treated like kings. Their homes? Luxurious. Their wives? Hot. Their kids? Set for life. Will anyone feel sorry for them after the CBA is signed? Not me.

If the players don't like what the league is offering, they can work elsewhere. Nobody is forcing them to play in the NHL. There are other professional leagues in the world that would welcome them. And if they can't play elsewhere, well, they can always get a job digging ditches. I'm guessing they'd rather play in the NHL under any CBA than do that.

I think the fact that the players will get around 50% of the league's hockey related revenue ON TOP OF THEIR SALARY is ridiculous. If anyone else in any line of work were to gather their co-workers together and demand half of the company's profits, the whole lot of them would be fired on the spot.
I get why the idea is in place...I guess. It gives the players incentive to promote the game, be good ambassadors, work with the community, the fans come to watch THEM, etc. But to give them half the profits of a $3.5 billion business...ON TOP OF THEIR SALARIES?? Really? The players should be lucky they get any part of the revenue at all...but over 50%? Jesus. That's messed up. No wonder some teams are losing money. They're just giving all of the money to the players.

I saw a tweet from Erik Johnson complaining that the NHLPA has given in on a number of issues, but the owners aren't giving in on anything. Well no shit. Boo hoo. That's probably because the owners, in general, aren't making any real money and the players are raking it in. How much money do you have to have Mr. Johnson? I mean, good Lord...you have been overpaid and underachieved in your career so far. You have a lot of nerve asking the NHL for anything. You should shut up and be thankful you are going to make $15 million over the next four years...guaranteed...no matter how much you continue to suck. Stop tweeting & complaining about the CBA negotiations...you sound like an asshole.

I get that the players want to get as much as they can in the deal, and it doesn't hurt to ask and try to negotiate, but we've already cancelled almost half of the season. Enough already. The NHLPA isn't going to get what they want, that is blatantly obvious to everyone except them I guess...and apparently they haven't learned anything from the last lockout. The owners proved in the past they are willing to cancel an entire season while standing their ground, and it looks like they are willing to do it again.

[not_a_wings_fan]

Not sure I am following you here, Curt.

The 50% number is the slice of the pie that all player compensation is paid from, not a profit sharing agreement. The 50% number is what sets the salary floor and ceiling that determines how much can be spent on players. Currently, 57% of the revenues earned, not profit, revenues, are given to players. That's too high, I agree with the owners.

I would rather see the owners not try to get everything at once, sign a deal, and get the games going. They can amend the deal in 5 years.