Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Discuss the St. Louis Blues, the NHL, or anything hockey.

Moderator: LGB Mods

Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:23 am

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012 ... s-the-nhl/

This will make Glen happy. I don't agree with some of the suggestions for the NHL (though some may be tongue-in-cheek), but the MLS is coming on slowly, but surely.

Major League Soccer and the National Hockey League crossed paths this week going in opposite directions.

Heading into Saturday’s championship game between the Houston Dynamo and Los Angeles Galaxy, MLS Commissioner Dan Garber sounded victorious. The MLS set new attendance records and averaged nearly 19,000 fans a game this season, including 114 sellouts. The improving level of play, made possible by the addition of a new class of international talents such as Robbie Keane and Thierry Henry, has made the game more attractive for fans, who are embracing their teams. “There’s a true supporters culture that is developing in MLS that is providing us a true point of difference,” Garber said. And you can see in places like Seattle, where the games have a distinctly European feel. (Without the drunken louts and fan violence.) The league is strong enough that the pending loss of David Beckham, who since 2007 has single handedly provided MLS with an identity, can be considered a healthy transition.

Maybe NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman should hire Becks to juggle a ball wearing ice skates. It’s about the only entertainment his league might provide this season if it doesn’t end the current lockout of players, now in its third month. The players have offered a 50/50 revenue split with the owners, down from the 57% they are currently taking. The owners aren’t satisfied with sharing. Even two days of talks that included the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service failed to move the puck. “We are disappointed that the mediation process was not successful,” said NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. Disappointed but he couldn’t have been surprised given the league’s intransigence.

(MORE: Why Liverpool Fans Are Loving Chelsea’s New Coach)

The NHL’s policy of exclusion—we’re not going to negotiate anything, and we don’t want to honor the player contracts that we’ve already signed—is a sports version of the Republican party. This is the second lockout that Bettman has orchestrated—the entire 2004-2005 season was lost on his watch. It’s a bitter holdout by what seems to be a few extreme owners bent on bringing the players to heel at the expense of the ticket-buying general public. We’ve seen what voters thought of the GOP‘s strategy. They reelected a left-handed basketball player.

Meanwhile in the north part of North America, the MLS added a team in the very heart of ice hockey this year, the Montreal Impact. It’s the third MLS team in Canada, and the new boys drew crowds of 60,000 plus at the Olympic Stadium before moving into the cozier confines of Stade Saputo. It sets up a potential new rivalry with Toronto FC, another relatively recent arrival to MLS, and one that could offset the historic Canadiens/Maple Leafs faceoff. (Although FC Toronto seems as lame as the Leafs have been over the last, oh, 30 years.) MLS is finding a deep fan base up north of the border, a contrast to the disappointment of the NHL’s southern strategy in planting teams in places such as Phoenix (bankrupt), Atlanta (moved), Tampa and Miami (quick, what’s the team’s name?). The growth of MLS in the U.S. and Canada, and the characteristics of the fan base say a lot about the future of the game. “The demographics don’t lie: our two countries have become soccer nations,” said Garber. Those same demographics—more Hispanic, less white— are a warning sign to the NHL, which apparently believes it can abuse its fans without consequences. MLS is growing because it has nurtured its fan base. It had to, given that MLS was essentially selling a foreign product in its early days. But that is no longer true. Global football is our ball.

So while soccer grows, the NHL is sliding. Many of the NHL’s stars are already playing in Europe, so the strike isn’t hurting them as much as perhaps the owners had hoped. Some of these players might choose to stay in Europe permanently—in other words, they’d prefer a Russian hockey league team owner to an American or Canadian — rather than worry about the NHL’s despots taking money out of their pockets.

So here’s a proposal to bring hockey back. NHL players should form their own league. (What is it that owners do, anyway?)There are plenty of arenas available, some publicly financed or owned. For instance, in the New York City area, there’s the Izod Center in nearby East Rutherford and the Barclay’s in Brooklyn, which don’t house NHL teams at the moment. In Detroit, the Palace at Auburn Hills is available, isn’t it? In Canada, there are a jillion places to place hockey.

Or better yet, consider that the NHL has had enormous success playing ice hockey outside in its Winter Classic. And MLS’s cozy, soccer specific stadiums, which typically seat 25,000 fans, all of them close to the action, would be perfect sites for outdoor hockey come December. The fans can wear team scarves (they might need to) and sing team songs, just like soccer fans do. The NHL would never be missed.

Read more: http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012 ... z2E0TbnLbn
Image
User avatar
dmiles2186
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 5995
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby glen a richter » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:10 am

There is no situation under which I would ever watch soccer. However, the whole idea of the players forming their own hockey league is a fairly good idea.
LGB sponsor of Ian Cole 2011-2012
LGB sponsor of Gary Bettman's Pink Slip 2013
LGB sponsor of Dmitrij Jaskin 2013-2014
LGB sponsor of Ian Cole (again) 2014-2015
glen a richter
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 7265
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby PGABluesFan » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:54 pm

I'll probably be shunned for saying this: I love hockey, but proper football(soccer) is my first love. I absolutely love seeing the MLS growing. NHL better get it's act together. I just don't understand it. If the English Premier League did not have a season, Europe, especially England, would implode. It is just inconceivable. Why do we have "work" stoppages in America? It's ridiculous.
User avatar
PGABluesFan
3rd Line Grinder
3rd Line Grinder
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:47 pm
Location: School - Richmond, KY. Home - North O'Fallon, MO.

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby Frusciante » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:36 am

To avoid these work stoppages the NHL would really need to reform its whole system. The biggest difference between sports in Europe and America is how the system works on a number of issues. For example, in Europe it's the national soccer (just an example) association who runs the operation and there are no closed leagues, which means you get relegated if you don't play good enough, while teams from the lower leagues get promoted. Moreover, there are no drafts but players are beeing sold and bought between teams instead of traded. This way there are no labour agreements within the league which means there cannot be any restrictions as to contractlength, wages etc.
There are other problems with the european system though, specifically that rich owners can spend more or less whatever they want and thus get the best players, which makes for very uneven leagues.

However, I think the only way we can avoid these work stoppages is to reform the whole system. Because whichever way you try to flip this thing, it's always gonna come down to the fact that NHL is being run like a company, and with a union of powerful millioneers you're always gonna see these clashes between the two sides. But we all know that's not gonna happen.


PS. One thing I don't understand is this: Why not just form a rule in which owners and players are forbidden to sign contracts that have a different wage each year? If the players were paid the same amount every year of the contract, we wouldn't see these ridiculous 15 or whatever-year contracts like Parise and Kovalchuk signed. Which would lead them a lot closer to finding an agreement as to the contractual issues... Right?
User avatar
Frusciante
4th Line Mucker
4th Line Mucker
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:32 am
Location: Västerås, Sweden

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby cprice12 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:25 pm

I really enjoy soccer. But it is still a 2nd tier sport until they get rid of the flopping and diving. And I'm not just talking about falling down, like they may do in hockey...I'm talking about falling down, rolling around, holding your face, screaming in pain, pounding your hand on the ground, then being carried off on a stretcher...and then hopping off when they get to the sideline and stand up ready to go back in.

Sickening.
Image
Image

2014-2015 Sponsor -- Blues Asst. Coach Kirk Muller
User avatar
cprice12
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19532
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Center Ice

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby PGABluesFan » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:39 pm

cprice12 wrote:I really enjoy soccer. But it is still a 2nd tier sport until they get rid of the flopping and diving. And I'm not just talking about falling down, like they may do in hockey...I'm talking about falling down, rolling around, holding your face, screaming in pain, pounding your hand on the ground, then being carried off on a stretcher...and then hopping off when they get to the sideline and stand up ready to go back in.

Sickening.


I completely agree, and it's a large reason why it gets no respect in America. What's funny is, if you watch the MLS, they don't do it nearly as much as La Liga in Spain or EPL in England. It's really unfortunate what the sport has become.
User avatar
PGABluesFan
3rd Line Grinder
3rd Line Grinder
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:47 pm
Location: School - Richmond, KY. Home - North O'Fallon, MO.

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby dmiles2186 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:23 pm

cprice12 wrote:I really enjoy soccer. But it is still a 2nd tier sport until they get rid of the flopping and diving. And I'm not just talking about falling down, like they may do in hockey...I'm talking about falling down, rolling around, holding your face, screaming in pain, pounding your hand on the ground, then being carried off on a stretcher...and then hopping off when they get to the sideline and stand up ready to go back in.

Sickening.


I do agree about the diving, but like you, I enjoy soccer. It's the world's sport for a reason and most American's have such a crappy attitude towards it. Never mind the fact that our national sport (football) has plenty of flaws as well, namely that a 60 minute game is filled with only 12-13 minutes of action, as well as the sport riddling the players with debilitating injuries.

That being said, the MLS has risen in terms of level of play in the last few years and the Pacific Northwest is helping with the explosion of the sport in this country. It's no joke that the sport poses a threat to the NHL.
Image
User avatar
dmiles2186
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 5995
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby F Keenan » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:03 am

I love EPL and the Champions league. MLS is $hit. It's boring and its the main reason no one in the States like soccer. It has been and always will be a minor league sport in the US.

I purchased Fox Soccer and I watch it as much as I would have watched Center Ice this year. I want the NHL to come back, but right now I'm not missing them. I'm enjoying Celtic FC and West Ham United games as much as the Blues.
Image

*I tend to only post on this site when I'm intoxicated.
User avatar
F Keenan
All-Star
All-Star
 
Posts: 2186
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:10 am
Location: Kirkwood, MO

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby cprice12 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:28 am

dmiles2186 wrote:
cprice12 wrote:I really enjoy soccer. But it is still a 2nd tier sport until they get rid of the flopping and diving. And I'm not just talking about falling down, like they may do in hockey...I'm talking about falling down, rolling around, holding your face, screaming in pain, pounding your hand on the ground, then being carried off on a stretcher...and then hopping off when they get to the sideline and stand up ready to go back in.

Sickening.


I do agree about the diving, but like you, I enjoy soccer. It's the world's sport for a reason and most American's have such a crappy attitude towards it. Never mind the fact that our national sport (football) has plenty of flaws as well, namely that a 60 minute game is filled with only 12-13 minutes of action, as well as the sport riddling the players with debilitating injuries.

That being said, the MLS has risen in terms of level of play in the last few years and the Pacific Northwest is helping with the explosion of the sport in this country. It's no joke that the sport poses a threat to the NHL.


I think Americans in general have a poor attitude towards soccer for a couple reasons.
1) Games are so low scoring. 1-0 & 1-1 games are common. Few appreciate the chess match-like approach that the game requires to be played well.
2) It also doesn't help that we don't have the best players in the world. In the NHL, NBA, NFL...we have the best athletes in the world playing at the highest level. MLS here is like the minor leagues for the world. You can't say "world champs" if you win the MLS championship, can you? No...that's absurd.

I don't watch much soccer and no MLS at all because, well, we don't have a team...even though we should. If we had a team, I'd go to a ton of games and probably really get into it. That may sound odd, but rooting for a team is more than just enjoying the sport for me...it's about rooting for a home town team. I can't bring myself to support another city's team...at least not 100%, and if I'm not into rooting 100%, it just doesn't do it for me.

Maybe that's weird ...but that's how I am. And I think that is the case with most folks.

You see the United States get all reved up during the World Cup because that's a team everyone can get behind. I love the World Cup. It's our team and we are never favored to win the World Cup, so we are underdogs...and Americans love the underdog. I would follow Team USA more, but it's hard because it isn't really televised or promoted. Maybe that's just laziness on my part...or maybe it's mostly due to the fact that I subconsciously tune out all soccer because of the fact we do not have a team and I'm simply not that interested in soccer news in general.
Which is weird, because if someone asks me, "Do you like soccer?" I'd say, "Yes, I loves soccer."
Hard to explain.
Image
Image

2014-2015 Sponsor -- Blues Asst. Coach Kirk Muller
User avatar
cprice12
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19532
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Center Ice

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:47 am

cprice12 wrote:I think Americans in general have a poor attitude towards soccer for a couple reasons.
1) Games are so low scoring. 1-0 & 1-1 games are common. Few appreciate the chess match-like approach that the game requires to be played well.
2) It also doesn't help that we don't have the best players in the world. In the NHL, NBA, NFL...we have the best athletes in the world playing at the highest level. MLS here is like the minor leagues for the world. You can't say "world champs" if you win the MLS championship, can you? No...that's absurd.

I don't watch much soccer and no MLS at all because, well, we don't have a team...even though we should. If we had a team, I'd go to a ton of games and probably really get into it. That may sound odd, but rooting for a team is more than just enjoying the sport for me...it's about rooting for a home town team. I can't bring myself to support another city's team...at least not 100%, and if I'm not into rooting 100%, it just doesn't do it for me.

Maybe that's weird ...but that's how I am. And I think that is the case with most folks.

You see the United States get all reved up during the World Cup because that's a team everyone can get behind. I love the World Cup. It's our team and we are never favored to win the World Cup, so we are underdogs...and Americans love the underdog. I would follow Team USA more, but it's hard because it isn't really televised or promoted. Maybe that's just laziness on my part...or maybe it's mostly due to the fact that I subconsciously tune out all soccer because of the fact we do not have a team and I'm simply not that interested in soccer news in general.
Which is weird, because if someone asks me, "Do you like soccer?" I'd say, "Yes, I loves soccer."
Hard to explain.


You make a lot of good points and I completely understand where you are coming from when you say it's hard to follow MLS because you don't have a hometown team. I'd say you have a lot of the same thoughts as most casual or non-soccer fans as well. I don't consider myself a die hard soccer fan by any stretch, but I do probably watch more than the average American sports fan.

When it comes to the low scoring point, I agree, most Americans want more points. Although, I always counter with the fact that a 3-1 soccer game would actually be a 21-7 football game (Or 18-6 since their are no PAT equivalents in soccer). I don't know if it's a weak argument, but it's true.

And you are right about the MLS being essentially a minor league for the rest of the sport. In the last few years, it's developed into a league that is split into two groups mostly. The first: young up and coming players, mostly from North America, looking to make a name and hone their game so they can receive a larger offer from Europe or elsewhere in the World. The second group: former world class stars/names coming to the USA to 'grow' the game. Robbie Keane, David Beckham, Thierry Henry, etc.

But the league is only 17 years old. But really, in the last decade, the league has started to mold itself in a way that I'm really starting to enjoy. I've always watched the league off and on but much more so in the last few years. The soccer specific stadiums, the supporter groups, etc. are really starting to give off a real soccer atmosphere. The league is on the right path, it may take some time to build this up.

I don't think it will ever be on par with the EPL or some of the other leagues, but the good thing is that Americans can see top tier soccer now with ESPN covering EPL games (which NBC will take over in the future) and Champion's League games, etc. It's out there if people want it. And while it may be crazy, with the horror stories of post football injuries/dementia, etc. more and more young athletes may be turning to this sport and sticking with it. Soccer could finally be a real force in the future. I know that's been said since the NASL days of the 70's and 80's, but I think we're getting to that point. We've seen boxing reduced to a sport no one cares about because so many former notable names have been reduced to mumbling, shaking, unstable versions of themselves. Football could very well be headed that direction.

Could you imagine if someone like Lebron James played soccer instead of basketball? If even a few of our best athletes kept with soccer until they could play it professionally, the US would really be a force in that sport as well.
Image
User avatar
dmiles2186
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 5995
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby kodos » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:47 am

Right now water polo is a threat to the NHL.
Image
User avatar
kodos
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 11893
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:05 pm

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby glen a richter » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:44 pm

I disagree... it takes guts to root for the road team. Anyone can be a fan of the home team, it's easy. It's a piece of cake going to a game with 18000 people who agree with you and a few hundred that don't. It takes balls to show up in "enemy" colors and cheer on the road team. I'd rather be a fan of a visiting team 99.9% of the time than be a fan of the home team 100% of the time. It builds character and a thick skin.
LGB sponsor of Ian Cole 2011-2012
LGB sponsor of Gary Bettman's Pink Slip 2013
LGB sponsor of Dmitrij Jaskin 2013-2014
LGB sponsor of Ian Cole (again) 2014-2015
glen a richter
Hockey God
Hockey God
 
Posts: 7265
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby cprice12 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:20 pm

glen a richter wrote:I disagree... it takes guts to root for the road team. Anyone can be a fan of the home team, it's easy. It's a piece of cake going to a game with 18000 people who agree with you and a few hundred that don't. It takes balls to show up in "enemy" colors and cheer on the road team. I'd rather be a fan of a visiting team 99.9% of the time than be a fan of the home team 100% of the time. It builds character and a thick skin.


I'm not going to condemn anyone for who they root for or why they root for who they do, but personally, I root for my city. I'm a homer. I'll root hard for someone in the underwater basket weaving championships if they are from St. Louis. It has nothing to do with it being easy or because everyone else is.
Sure, anyone can root for the home team, but that's not why I do it. I do it because I am a very loyal person in general and I have this feeling of allegiance to my city and the teams that represent St. Louis. It's not passive or on the surface...it's deep rooted in me.
I grew up here. I live here. I like it here. My early childhood memories of Blues games are very special to me.
Like most of you, I feel like I am a part of this franchise. I have sunk an unspeakable amount of time during my life rooting for, analyzing, chatting about, and spending money on this franchise in one way or another. In the winter, I live and die with this team. There is nothing easy about it. It's a lot of work to be a die hard Blues fan, no matter where you live.
I understand your comment, and that may apply to some folks...but that doesn't apply to me and I am sure many, many others.
Image
Image

2014-2015 Sponsor -- Blues Asst. Coach Kirk Muller
User avatar
cprice12
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19532
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Center Ice

Re: Time.com: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL

Postby gaijin » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:28 pm

cprice12 wrote:
glen a richter wrote:I disagree... it takes guts to root for the road team. Anyone can be a fan of the home team, it's easy. It's a piece of cake going to a game with 18000 people who agree with you and a few hundred that don't. It takes balls to show up in "enemy" colors and cheer on the road team. I'd rather be a fan of a visiting team 99.9% of the time than be a fan of the home team 100% of the time. It builds character and a thick skin.


I'm not going to condemn anyone for who they root for or why they root for who they do, but personally, I root for my city. I'm a homer. I'll root hard for someone in the underwater basket weaving championships if they are from St. Louis. It has nothing to do with it being easy or because everyone else is.
Sure, anyone can root for the home team, but that's not why I do it. I do it because I am a very loyal person in general and I have this feeling of allegiance to my city and the teams that represent St. Louis. It's not passive or on the surface...it's deep rooted in me.
I grew up here. I live here. I like it here. My early childhood memories of Blues games are very special to me.
Like most of you, I feel like I am a part of this franchise. I have sunk an unspeakable amount of time during my life rooting for, analyzing, chatting about, and spending money on this franchise in one way or another. In the winter, I live and die with this team. There is nothing easy about it. It's a lot of work to be a die hard Blues fan, no matter where you live.
I understand your comment, and that may apply to some folks...but that doesn't apply to me and I am sure many, many others.


Shit, I'll condemn anyone wearing a Red Sox hat. And feel good about myself afterwards.
Image
User avatar
gaijin
Hall Of Fame
Hall Of Fame
 
Posts: 2767
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 7:46 pm
Location: An undisclosed location in SW Asia


Return to St. Louis Blues Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: F Keenan, Google [Bot], STLADOGG and 4 guests