The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby ramsfan115 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:57 am

IMHO you have too many individual play and not enough "team" play. You have players like Peron and Oshie ( yes Oshie) trying to do everything themselves, and getting caught in the process. then you have players like Schwartz, who is either showing too much respect for the veterans, or is scared to take the puck to the net himself. There is also IMHO too much emphisis on "cherry picking" and not enough Defense first with this team this year. It is getting to the point that they can't even make a tape to tape pass, with too many pucks going either behind, or way too far in front of the intended player, and is killing momentum.

For whatever reason, our D is looking pathetic, especially disturbing has been the play of Polak , Russell, and Shattenkirk. IMO they have been skating around lost, making boneheaded plays, and cost the team alot of goals. I do understand that the forwards have also been a big reason for the GAA, BUT, it is the D's job to clear the crease, and thus far it has not happened.

IMHO they need to go back to defense first hockey, and then the goals will come in the offensive zone. Play as a team, clear the trash, and our goalies will start looking stellar again ( they can't do it all with no help).
Lastly, Hitch needs to get pissed, I mean downright livid with this team. Let them know that that this isn't exceptable, and start sitting some players. I do believe with Langenbrunner out for the year, they can call up either Porter, chorney, or McKree on an emergency basis. That way Hitch can sit two players a night that aren't doing what they are supposed to, and sub one or more for the night...

As always, just my two cents
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby DaDitka » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:50 am

tjk002 wrote:Complete BS. Been to everygame, and watched away games on tv. He has not looked bad. He just does the unpopular, non-pretty things, such as hitting and camping in front of the net. Hard to say he's looked like crap when in the first 5 games they didn't score a 5 on 5 goal with him centering his line. Watch the way he back checks, then watch Berglund back check with his lazy ass attitude, then come talk to me.



Dude...I don't know WTF you are watching. I attended the first four games and have watched everything else on TV as well (since you felt compelled to qualify your ability to access the situation as well). Early in the season Backes was NOT doing those things, he was standing around. It appeared more out of uncertainty then 'laziness'. He has gone back to being the 'blue collar' type player that has endeared him to the St. Louis hockey community. But for the first 6 or 7 games that was far from the case.

And FYI, Berglund has BY FAR been the best back checker this year (and last year as noted by Chase). You'r hanging on hatred from two years ago clearly renders you observations irrelevant.

This is especially disappointing considering you say you've witnessed 7 games in person. Spend more time watching the game, not just the puck or that whore Angela.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby theohall » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:38 pm

I keep reading Backes had a slow start. I am calling BS on that one. He had a slow start on the score sheet. He sure as hell did not have a slow start on the ice. His banging, sacrificing and doing the hard things that rarely show on a score sheet were setting up goals in the first 6 games. He has continued to do that every single game. Him not being on the ice at the end of the last Wings game - yes, it had an impact, IMO. If Backes is not ejected, he is on the ice for the Blues final power play - and his presence in front of the net matters.

It is lack of work by several forwards. How many times recently have we seen an offensive or neutral zone turnover darn near immediately turn into a 3-on-2 with just the defenseman trying to make the darn play. Where is the back-checking forward to take away the East West pass, after which the goalie will have a less than 1% chance of making a save?

Elliott is not the problem. Heck, the first game he started after Halak's injury - 2 of the goals went in off of deflections off of Blues players sticks. What the heck is the goalie supposed to do? Guess the Blues player is going to deflect it to some other area? I have lost count of the East-West pass goals. Then there are the failure to clear leading to screen shots from the point goals. No chance there either. Yes, there are 3, maybe 4 goals of the 20 something the Blues have surrendered where Elliott probably should have made the save. But - if the Blues forwards are actually back checking - take 16-20 goals against off the board.

It is not a mystery what is wrong with the Blues right now. Not enough work by all the forwards, period - just like Backes is saying.

There is also a tendency by some to over-pass in the offensive zone. If a player is in the center of the damn slot with the puck - shoot the thing on net, and let the other guys go to the net for the inevitable rebound when shooting from there. Several times I have seen a Blues player setup for a darn near perfect shot, but they keep trying to give the puck back to the guy who set them up - and this is usually after the give and go has gone back to the go guy. It's ridiculous and keeps resulting in turnovers. It happens quite a bit when Tarasenko sets someone up unexpectedly. That kid has mad skillz.

I would like to see Tarasenko getting more ice time. It's not like the Blues are playing an 80 game schedule and need to worry about fatiguing a rookie late in the season.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby DaDitka » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:47 pm

theohall wrote:I keep reading Backes had a slow start. I am calling BS on that one. He had a slow start on the score sheet. He sure as hell did not have a slow start on the ice. His banging, sacrificing and doing the hard things that rarely show on a score sheet were setting up goals in the first 6 games. He has continued to do that every single game. Him not being on the ice at the end of the last Wings game - yes, it had an impact, IMO. If Backes is not ejected, he is on the ice for the Blues final power play - and his presence in front of the net matters.


I love Backes and no one is a bigger proponent of the little things. I actually think stat sheets make fans 'dumber' rather then more informed, but the David Backes I saw on TV an at the rink the first 6 or 7 games was not the David Backes I'm used to seeing nor the one I'm seeing now.

It doesn't really matter now, we all agree that he's playing they way that endeared him to us and made him effective. There's no more to be gained arguing about how he played the first two weeks of the season.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby thedoc » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:27 pm

Backes appears to be back on track, now he just needs to keep it that way.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby thedoc » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:36 pm

tjk002 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote: then watch Berglund back check with his lazy ass attitude, then come talk to me.


With all do respect I am not sure what you have been watching if you think Berglund has played lazy.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby glen a richter » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:43 pm

I didn't get to watch the Kings game and I won't get to watch the game tonight either, so maybe I'm off base here, but I still contend that the struggles can be attributed to exactly two players making it harder for everyone else. When Perron coughs up the puck and Stewart is Stewart, don't you think the defense is muttering to themselves something to the effect of "I'm tired of this nonsense" every time they have to motor back to make plays and prevent chances? I'd be tired of it too. I don't know if I'd stop playing hard, but it's not like they don't get physically tired of it. They can play hard in the first period because they have a full tank, but that doesn't last later in the game and it shows. Maybe they can muster up the adrenaline to make a late push if it's close, but it has to wear on everyone else covering for the mistakes of two guys.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby theohall » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:18 pm

glen a richter wrote:I didn't get to watch the Kings game and I won't get to watch the game tonight either, so maybe I'm off base here, but I still contend that the struggles can be attributed to exactly two players making it harder for everyone else. When Perron coughs up the puck and Stewart is Stewart, don't you think the defense is muttering to themselves something to the effect of "I'm tired of this nonsense" every time they have to motor back to make plays and prevent chances? I'd be tired of it too. I don't know if I'd stop playing hard, but it's not like they don't get physically tired of it. They can play hard in the first period because they have a full tank, but that doesn't last later in the game and it shows. Maybe they can muster up the adrenaline to make a late push if it's close, but it has to wear on everyone else covering for the mistakes of two guys.


Problem is a few of these games, the Blues have not played hard in the 1st period. The only game I recall in this losing streak when the Blues played hard the entire first period was the Anaheim game.

It's not just Perron and Stewart. As good as Ian Cole was vs Anaheim, he was horrible vs LA. Looked like a rookie defenseman playing his first game.

Yes, when Stewart is being the lazy Stewart it really stands out.

Perron went from actually creating plays - when they were winning - to becoming a turnover machine and not shooting when he should - see Tarasenko setting him up with brilliant passes and Perron trying to pass it back when he has the shooting lane. Perron is a complete mystery and maybe needs to be given the tough love treatment for a few games that Andy Murray used to give him.

One thing I have seen from lots of players - just plain bad puck handling. It's not a couple of guys, it is darn near the whole team. Couple bad puck handling with bad decision making, you get lopsided losses. Then there is the every shot or pass in the offensive zone is getting blocked thing, while every pass an opponent makes seems to get exactly where the opponents wants it to go, because the Blues can't get back and defend properly. Shots going in the net off of Blues players sticks. Passes going off of Blues players sticks straight to an opponent who now has an open net, because the puck deflected the opposite direction the goalie was moving. This list goes on and on. These last 5 games look ALOT like the playoff series vs LA where the Blues could do absolutely nothing right.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:16 am

-I don't think Backes was ever truly bad this season, but he (as well as the entire top line) weren't very good to start the season either.

-Stewart has been good more than bad this year, but he kinda made his own bed the past couple of years in terms of standing out for being bad. Every mistake of his sticks out like a sore thumb even if he is a net positive.

-I haven't noticed Tarasenko in the same light as Perron. They are the same style of player, kind of, but I don't get the stats before team feel from Frank.

-Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Sobotka with skill would be the idea hockey player. And, I mean that as a compliment of his work ethic, not a shot at his ability.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby Oaklandblue » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:52 am

thedoc wrote:
tjk002 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote: then watch Berglund back check with his lazy ass attitude, then come talk to me.


With all do respect I am not sure what you have been watching if you think Berglund has played lazy.



I did NOT type this. If you're going to attribute something to me, make sure you pull a quote from me, not from someone else.

If anything, Bergy has been one of the most consistent players we've had this year.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby DaDitka » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:42 am

theohall wrote:One thing I have seen from lots of players - just plain bad puck handling. It's not a couple of guys, it is darn near the whole team. Couple bad puck handling with bad decision making, you get lopsided losses. Then there is the every shot or pass in the offensive zone is getting blocked thing, while every pass an opponent makes seems to get exactly where the opponents wants it to go, because the Blues can't get back and defend properly. Shots going in the net off of Blues players sticks. Passes going off of Blues players sticks straight to an opponent who now has an open net, because the puck deflected the opposite direction the goalie was moving. This list goes on and on. These last 5 games look ALOT like the playoff series vs LA where the Blues could do absolutely nothing right.


I think this is a great description of exactly what I'm seeing as well. Last night against the Wings it was especially maddening. They were knocking down pucks out of mid air and maintaining possession, they were completing passes through two defenders....etc....while we couldn't accept a pass, we couldn't make a pass, we couldn't control loose pucks. Maybe it's the old 'gripping the stick too tight' but it's clearly a team wide problem is it's extremely frustrating.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby APOD » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:45 am

I think berg is one hell of a backchecker, my problem was with him not passing the puck because 8 out of 10 shots of his seem to go wide.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby DaDitka » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

APOD wrote:I think berg is one hell of a backchecker, my problem was with him not passing the puck because 8 out of 10 shots of his seem to go wide.


Understood, but in his defense Hitch has been screaming from every hilltop to shot the damn puck more....not to mention he is tied for the team lead in goal.

But I do agree, he needs to get more of his shots on net.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby APOD » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:00 am

Right, its just frustrating.

and as far as Tarasenko and Perron go, they both play the same but with 1 key difference. They both go to the net hard, they both are getting set-up in the slot, but only one of them is also helping set up other players.

Also Perron seems to getting more physical, but Im not seeing it in a good way. Taking bad penalties and getting in pushing matches and tangles far from were the play is at that moment.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby theohall » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:49 am

cardsfan04 wrote:-I don't think Backes was ever truly bad this season, but he (as well as the entire top line) weren't very good to start the season either.


This is completely untrue. The line of Backes-Oshie-Perron did not give up an even strength goal against until the Blues 8th game when the losing streak started. What the heck games were you watching in the first 7? And that line regularly plays against the other teams top lines.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby theohall » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:54 am

APOD wrote:Right, its just frustrating.

and as far as Tarasenko and Perron go, they both play the same but with 1 key difference. They both go to the net hard, they both are getting set-up in the slot, but only one of them is also helping set up other players.

Also Perron seems to getting more physical, but Im not seeing it in a good way. Taking bad penalties and getting in pushing matches and tangles far from were the play is at that moment.


Perron was considerably better last night passing the puck when he should - with very good passes I might add - and shooting when no pass option was available. The prior 5 games he would hold the puck and hold the puck and hold the puck trying to make something happen himself. Last night, I don't think he ever had the puck on his stick for more than 2-3 seconds. He was making quick decisions. Yes, the penalty at the end was lame, but one lame mistake - which could be attributed to helping protect Oshie - is not that bad. Perron has put on some size it appears and does far better fending off defenders to move the puck than I have ever seen in prior seasons. As long as he keeps the quick count to move the puck off of his stick in his head, he should be fine and we won't be complaining about him very often.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby theohall » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:59 am

DaDitka wrote:
theohall wrote:One thing I have seen from lots of players - just plain bad puck handling. It's not a couple of guys, it is darn near the whole team. Couple bad puck handling with bad decision making, you get lopsided losses. Then there is the every shot or pass in the offensive zone is getting blocked thing, while every pass an opponent makes seems to get exactly where the opponents wants it to go, because the Blues can't get back and defend properly. Shots going in the net off of Blues players sticks. Passes going off of Blues players sticks straight to an opponent who now has an open net, because the puck deflected the opposite direction the goalie was moving. This list goes on and on. These last 5 games look ALOT like the playoff series vs LA where the Blues could do absolutely nothing right.


I think this is a great description of exactly what I'm seeing as well. Last night against the Wings it was especially maddening. They were knocking down pucks out of mid air and maintaining possession, they were completing passes through two defenders....etc....while we couldn't accept a pass, we couldn't make a pass, we couldn't control loose pucks. Maybe it's the old 'gripping the stick too tight' but it's clearly a team wide problem is it's extremely frustrating.


Outside of the Datsyuk goal in the 2nd, the Wings did not get the goofy bounces in the 2nd and 3rd period other teams have gotten the prior 5 games. The 3rd period shot blocking was exceptional. And the Blues were actually getting shots to the net with some very nice passing in the 2nd and 3rd. Yes, the Wings were still getting the puck into the offensive zone, but only 6 shots against over 2 full periods? That's like what the Blues were doing to start the season. Hopefully, this continues in Calgary.

Part of the problem might be when the Blues were blocking things in the prior 5 games, the blocked shots were just going the wrong way. Heck, in the 1st loss to Detroit, 2 of the 5 goals deflected off of Blues player's sticks into the net. I don't know. The blocks certainly were not going the wrong way for the last 40:53 last night.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:33 am

theohall wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:-I don't think Backes was ever truly bad this season, but he (as well as the entire top line) weren't very good to start the season either.


This is completely untrue. The line of Backes-Oshie-Perron did not give up an even strength goal against until the Blues 8th game when the losing streak started. What the heck games were you watching in the first 7? And that line regularly plays against the other teams top lines.


I wouldn't say completely untrue, but I should have qualified it as offensively. Almost all of Backes and Oshie's production came on the PP. That's not a bad thing, but as a line, they weren't scoring a whole lot in even strength situations. Maybe that's nitpicky though. Defensively they were excellent, I agree.
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Re: The Score's Write Up About the Blues' Struggles

Postby crazyhorse » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:41 am

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