GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:31 am

What I was really impressed with was right before Sobotka's go ahead goal (at the time) in the 3rd, the Blues weathered a flurry of shots and overall pressure from the Canucks. Allen made some HUGE saves during that onslaught, but the D also clamped down and played smart and as a group. It's something we didn't see much of during the 5 game losing streak. They really took the punches and then countered with the goal. Should have won this in regulation, but I'll take the 2 points regardless.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby glen a richter » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:53 pm

A friend who's a Canucks fan is arguing with me about how he thinks Backes should have gotten a penalty for running into Luongo. He thinks it wasn't a check but rather "a touch" and he did nothing to stop from falling into Luongo. I think we were watching a different game. How does a freight train change direction when crosschecked into the goal from less than one stride out? If anything it should have been a penalty on Vancouver.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby STLADOGG » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:09 pm

I really like this playing only conference games schedule this year. I hope they do it from now on, it really builds rivalry's. But they won't.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby theohall » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:03 pm

glen a richter wrote:A friend who's a Canucks fan is arguing with me about how he thinks Backes should have gotten a penalty for running into Luongo. He thinks it wasn't a check but rather "a touch" and he did nothing to stop from falling into Luongo. I think we were watching a different game. How does a freight train change direction when crosschecked into the goal from less than one stride out? If anything it should have been a penalty on Vancouver.

I bet he thinks Kesler wasn't diving either. Not once, but twice in the final five minutes of regulation, Kesler acts hurt, draws calls, yet never leaves the ice???
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby glen a richter » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:08 pm

theohall wrote:
glen a richter wrote:A friend who's a Canucks fan is arguing with me about how he thinks Backes should have gotten a penalty for running into Luongo. He thinks it wasn't a check but rather "a touch" and he did nothing to stop from falling into Luongo. I think we were watching a different game. How does a freight train change direction when crosschecked into the goal from less than one stride out? If anything it should have been a penalty on Vancouver.

I bet he thinks Kesler wasn't diving either. Not once, but twice in the final five minutes of regulation, Kesler acts hurt, draws calls, yet never leaves the ice???


Funny you bring that up because he specifically referenced that call (the first one Kesler drew) when trying to argue that the Blues were throwing around dirty hit after dirty hit. I honestly don't know why I stay friends with people so deficient in knowledge of the game. Canuck fans may be fiercely loyal to their team but they sorely lack an understanding of what is and isn't a dive. Between them and Avs fans, I'd say the two worst groups in the league.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby Shanahan19 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:06 pm

The Canucks are the Penguins of the West.

We are supposed to let them win because they deserve it and will whine to victory if they can. Two very arrogant organizations that I love to see destroyed.

Allen got better as he played the games which is clearly a good sign.

I don't think Elliott or Halak all long for the Blues though. Halak, I still believe, is not and doesn't really like being a goalie in the West. Elliott needs to get it together...fast.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby theohall » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:43 pm

sseagle wrote:anyone been following Burnside and his 'embedded with the blues' series on the four letter network?

interesting insights..
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8955578/nhl-coach-ken-hitchcock-responsible-managing-st-louis-blues-balance


Those articles are a great read. It's fun reading about Hitchcock the day before the Calgary game saying the Flames cannot play with the Blues if the Blues play their checking game. And seeing how right he was playing out in that first period vs the Flames.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby glen a richter » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:16 pm

Agreed that Allen will be the goalie of the future, and that future appears to be accelerating at the moment. Gotta do something about that save percentage though, kind of low for a guy who should eventually be the #1. I'm sure that's something that will come with time. Hirsch needs to spend some one on one time with young Jake and tighten up some things.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby theohall » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:58 pm

glen a richter wrote:Agreed that Allen will be the goalie of the future, and that future appears to be accelerating at the moment. Gotta do something about that save percentage though, kind of low for a guy who should eventually be the #1. I'm sure that's something that will come with time. Hirsch needs to spend some one on one time with young Jake and tighten up some things.


Thing is most of the goals he is allowing are the kind no one saves. The Blues need to tighten up their defense to help the goalies save percentages, IMO. Heck, most of the crap Elliott was letting in were on the defense - not Elliott. Halak is going to look horrible if the Blues defensive zone play does not improve. And we know what helps the Blues defensive zone play most - playing in the offensive end and dominating opponents, like they did to start the season.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby cprice12 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:39 am

theohall wrote:
glen a richter wrote:Agreed that Allen will be the goalie of the future, and that future appears to be accelerating at the moment. Gotta do something about that save percentage though, kind of low for a guy who should eventually be the #1. I'm sure that's something that will come with time. Hirsch needs to spend some one on one time with young Jake and tighten up some things.


Thing is most of the goals he is allowing are the kind no one saves. The Blues need to tighten up their defense to help the goalies save percentages, IMO. Heck, most of the crap Elliott was letting in were on the defense - not Elliott. Halak is going to look horrible if the Blues defensive zone play does not improve. And we know what helps the Blues defensive zone play most - playing in the offensive end and dominating opponents, like they did to start the season.


I disagree about Elliott. A lot of the goals he was allowing were going through him, were considered "bad goals" and were his fault. And a good chunk of the ones that didn't go through him, he still should have had.
Now, with that said...the Blues were playing poorly in front of him, but he needs to pick them up by making the saves he is supposed to make. And he just wasn't.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:27 am

cprice12 wrote:
theohall wrote:
glen a richter wrote:Agreed that Allen will be the goalie of the future, and that future appears to be accelerating at the moment. Gotta do something about that save percentage though, kind of low for a guy who should eventually be the #1. I'm sure that's something that will come with time. Hirsch needs to spend some one on one time with young Jake and tighten up some things.


Thing is most of the goals he is allowing are the kind no one saves. The Blues need to tighten up their defense to help the goalies save percentages, IMO. Heck, most of the crap Elliott was letting in were on the defense - not Elliott. Halak is going to look horrible if the Blues defensive zone play does not improve. And we know what helps the Blues defensive zone play most - playing in the offensive end and dominating opponents, like they did to start the season.


I disagree about Elliott. A lot of the goals he was allowing were going through him, were considered "bad goals" and were his fault. And a good chunk of the ones that didn't go through him, he still should have had.
Now, with that said...the Blues were playing poorly in front of him, but he needs to pick them up by making the saves he is supposed to make. And he just wasn't.


With Elliott, it's 50-50. I don't think all of the blame is on his shoulders as the D was absolutely putrid in front of him for several games in a row. That being said, when he did have a chance to make some 'big' saves, he wasn't doing it. If the entire defense didn't fold, he did, and vice versa. With Allen in net, we've seen the D cave (specifically that breakaway in OT on Sunday night), a few times and he's made some saves to calm things down. Even during that flurry midway through the 3rd, Allen didn't buckle. That's been the difference. The D has played better in front of Allen overall. But part of me wonders if the fact that Allen has bailed them out a few times has calmed them down and let them play their game.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby sseagle » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:50 am

Elliott's fault!
Everything is Elliot's fault, all the time. The shitty defense had zero to do with the goalie letting in 'soft' goals after a turnover turned into a 8 on 0 breakout.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby cprice12 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:21 am

sseagle wrote:Elliott's fault!
Everything is Elliot's fault, all the time. The shitty defense had zero to do with the goalie letting in 'soft' goals after a turnover turned into a 8 on 0 breakout.


I don't care what the defense does in front. That's irrelevant to my point. If it's a shot a goalie "should" stop 99% of the time, then he better damn well stop it, or else the goal is on him.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby theohall » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:48 am

cprice12 wrote:
sseagle wrote:Elliott's fault!
Everything is Elliot's fault, all the time. The shitty defense had zero to do with the goalie letting in 'soft' goals after a turnover turned into a 8 on 0 breakout.


I don't care what the defense does in front. That's irrelevant to my point. If it's a shot a goalie "should" stop 99% of the time, then he better damn well stop it, or else the goal is on him.


There have been a few he should have stopped, but IMO it is nowhere near the 50-50 someone else mentioned. If I have the time to go re-check, I would bet as many as 80% of the goals Elliott allowed were on the defense giving up ridiculous East-West passes with forwards not even trying to get back and help, usually from turnovers high in the offensive zone. Or letting someone get in front of the net completely alone. Yes, Elliott's last game was mostly on him. That, to me, is a consequence of lack of confidence to the defense being so crappy for 4 games in a row.
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby sseagle » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:24 pm

I blame the defense.

However


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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby cprice12 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:07 am

theohall wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
sseagle wrote:Elliott's fault!
Everything is Elliot's fault, all the time. The shitty defense had zero to do with the goalie letting in 'soft' goals after a turnover turned into a 8 on 0 breakout.


I don't care what the defense does in front. That's irrelevant to my point. If it's a shot a goalie "should" stop 99% of the time, then he better damn well stop it, or else the goal is on him.


There have been a few he should have stopped, but IMO it is nowhere near the 50-50 someone else mentioned. If I have the time to go re-check, I would bet as many as 80% of the goals Elliott allowed were on the defense giving up ridiculous East-West passes with forwards not even trying to get back and help, usually from turnovers high in the offensive zone. Or letting someone get in front of the net completely alone. Yes, Elliott's last game was mostly on him. That, to me, is a consequence of lack of confidence to the defense being so crappy for 4 games in a row.


I didn't go back and check, but I'd bet it's closer to the 50/50 than 80/20. Goals were simply going through him. He allowed a lot of bad goals. Hitch hasn't started him since for that very reason. If most of those goals truly weren't Elliott's fault, he'd have been back in net after one or two starts from Allen. Elliott didn't even backup Allen in the one game. It was Halak on the bench, and he wasn't 100% ready to go.

I like Elliott and I'm confident he'll recover and turn things around. I'm just calling them as I see them. He was very bad during that stretch, and while the team didn't play well in front of him, (and yes, could have prevented some of those goals from happening), far too many goals Elliott allowed should have been stopped. When your team is struggling in front of you, you want your goalie to be solid. And Elliott wasn't.

With that said, I can't stand it when people blame the goalie for every goal. It's the lazy way to break down a play. When you see people blaming a goalie every time a goal is allowed, chances are they don't know what the hell they are talking about. But, obviously, that's not the case here. :wink:
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Re: GDT #15: 2/17/13 > Blues @ Canucks > 8:00 PM > FSMW/KMOX

Postby sseagle » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:59 pm

Elliott's fault!
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