The lack of scoring is pathetic

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The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby Krigloch the Furious » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:37 pm

How many more YEARS will we have to put up with a lack of scoring?
Bergy and Stewie were hot for a little while, but that slowly iced over.
Perron just sucks.
Tarasenko and Schwartz, too young to worry about.
Oshie doesnt ever score so whatever
Backes might as well shoot lefthanded
Steen and McDonald.... whatever

It's damn annoying!
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby DaDitka » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:36 am

Agreed. It's outrages that this has been such an issue for so long. My personal belief is our current struggles are practice related. Other then the 4th line, our guys are standing on top of each other and constantly bumping into each other. It seems no one has any 'feel' for where their line-mates are and there doesn't seem to be any plan.

Furthermore, this has to be the worst passing team in the league (both making and receiving passes)

All that said, Tarasenko really looks like he's getting ready to explode. He's constantly got the puck on his stick and he seems to be getting much more comfortable with the NHL game.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cprice12 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:22 am

They play a system that is heavily reliant on defense...and they play that extremely well.

The problem is that same system doesn't allow them to take chances in the offensive zone because Hitchcock doesn't want to turn the puck over high in the zone, so everything is dumped to the corners and cycled instead of passing across the high slot or being creative in other ways. The vast majority of the time, any pucks sent toward the net are either from a point shot (if they get through and if they are on net), or from one of those low percentage plays where they shoot the puck low from a bad angle that isn't meant to score, but it's to create a rebound for someone in front (I can't stand that play).
That play is fine occasionally, but they do it all of the time, and it rarely works and is a microcosm of the problems on offense when the play you always try is one that rarely works. They don't seem to force the issue in the offensive zone, they only work with what they are given, which isn't much down the stretch and won't be much in the playoffs either.
It would also help if Petro hadn't regressed this year in seemingly all aspects of his game. The point men are a key cog in generating offense, and Petro has regressed heavily...and Shattenkirk has disappeared the last half of this season as well.

The leash on the players needs to be let out some in the offensive zone. They are creative and talented enough to score more, but they simply aren't being allowed to be creative. Quite often you'll see players open on the other side of a couple defenseman when there is a bit of a lane but it takes a good elevated pass to get the puck there, but you never see them try it, they always dump the puck behind the net and the player that was open goes behind the net to get the puck and they cycle and/or work it back to the point...if they don't turn it over first.

It's frustrating to say the least, because you see options available for creative offensive opportunities, but they are passing them up so they can play their system. And I'm not saying their system can't score goals, because it can, but not at the clip needed to beat teams like Chicago in a 7 game series.

Everyone always says, offense wins games and defense wins cups...but you still have to actually outscore the other team more times than not in a 7 games series...and the Blues won't be doing that unless they can generate more offense.

Right now, unless something changes, they only way this team is going to go anywhere, is if they are allowing 1 or less goals per game...and that is asking an awful lot from your defense and goaltending. Plus it would probably wear out your team, as those kinds of games are usually more intense, require more hustle and mistake free hockey.

Free the offense.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby Oaklandblue » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:47 pm

cprice12 wrote:They play a system that is heavily reliant on defense...and they play that extremely well.

The problem is that same system doesn't allow them to take chances in the offensive zone because Hitchcock doesn't want to turn the puck over high in the zone, so everything is dumped to the corners and cycled instead of passing across the high slot or being creative in other ways. The vast majority of the time, any pucks sent toward the net are either from a point shot (if they get through and if they are on net), or from one of those low percentage plays where they shoot the puck low from a bad angle that isn't meant to score, but it's to create a rebound for someone in front (I can't stand that play).
That play is fine occasionally, but they do it all of the time, and it rarely works and is a microcosm of the problems on offense when the play you always try is one that rarely works. They don't seem to force the issue in the offensive zone, they only work with what they are given, which isn't much down the stretch and won't be much in the playoffs either.
It would also help if Petro hadn't regressed this year in seemingly all aspects of his game. The point men are a key cog in generating offense, and Petro has regressed heavily...and Shattenkirk has disappeared the last half of this season as well.

The leash on the players needs to be let out some in the offensive zone. They are creative and talented enough to score more, but they simply aren't being allowed to be creative. Quite often you'll see players open on the other side of a couple defenseman when there is a bit of a lane but it takes a good elevated pass to get the puck there, but you never see them try it, they always dump the puck behind the net and the player that was open goes behind the net to get the puck and they cycle and/or work it back to the point...if they don't turn it over first.

It's frustrating to say the least, because you see options available for creative offensive opportunities, but they are passing them up so they can play their system. And I'm not saying their system can't score goals, because it can, but not at the clip needed to beat teams like Chicago in a 7 game series.

Everyone always says, offense wins games and defense wins cups...but you still have to actually outscore the other team more times than not in a 7 games series...and the Blues won't be doing that unless they can generate more offense.

Right now, unless something changes, they only way this team is going to go anywhere, is if they are allowing 1 or less goals per game...and that is asking an awful lot from your defense and goaltending. Plus it would probably wear out your team, as those kinds of games are usually more intense, require more hustle and mistake free hockey.

Free the offense.


I always figured this was the problem (You can't play both, you can't stop the puck and score with the same system, right? Right??), but then I look at the Stars team that Hitch led to the Cup and wonder what the difference between us and them was. Hitch's system looks the same and it would hinder scorers by making them play two-way D, which according to legend he was able to teach to Brett Hull. Is the learning curve behind that really steep or is it just that there's situations or plays that are more oriented to Offense than Defense, if that makes sense.

And please, don't give me a list of the players they had on that roster, I feel we're just as good, just as talented and if you believe Halak is still a serious factor (I'm willing to bet he's outright deadly if you get him into the swing of the playoffs, if we could keep him healthy enough to play) in our Goalie Trinity, so the difference has to be in the style or formation or whatever the system of D that Hitch teaches entails. I'm sorry if this reads weird, I've played pickup games and I understand the base concepts, so I find this intriguing and abit frustrating for our guys, but if it takes us the distance, why not?

In so many words, what's the difference?
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cprice12 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:38 am

Oaklandblue wrote:
cprice12 wrote:They play a system that is heavily reliant on defense...and they play that extremely well.

The problem is that same system doesn't allow them to take chances in the offensive zone because Hitchcock doesn't want to turn the puck over high in the zone, so everything is dumped to the corners and cycled instead of passing across the high slot or being creative in other ways. The vast majority of the time, any pucks sent toward the net are either from a point shot (if they get through and if they are on net), or from one of those low percentage plays where they shoot the puck low from a bad angle that isn't meant to score, but it's to create a rebound for someone in front (I can't stand that play).
That play is fine occasionally, but they do it all of the time, and it rarely works and is a microcosm of the problems on offense when the play you always try is one that rarely works. They don't seem to force the issue in the offensive zone, they only work with what they are given, which isn't much down the stretch and won't be much in the playoffs either.
It would also help if Petro hadn't regressed this year in seemingly all aspects of his game. The point men are a key cog in generating offense, and Petro has regressed heavily...and Shattenkirk has disappeared the last half of this season as well.

The leash on the players needs to be let out some in the offensive zone. They are creative and talented enough to score more, but they simply aren't being allowed to be creative. Quite often you'll see players open on the other side of a couple defenseman when there is a bit of a lane but it takes a good elevated pass to get the puck there, but you never see them try it, they always dump the puck behind the net and the player that was open goes behind the net to get the puck and they cycle and/or work it back to the point...if they don't turn it over first.

It's frustrating to say the least, because you see options available for creative offensive opportunities, but they are passing them up so they can play their system. And I'm not saying their system can't score goals, because it can, but not at the clip needed to beat teams like Chicago in a 7 game series.

Everyone always says, offense wins games and defense wins cups...but you still have to actually outscore the other team more times than not in a 7 games series...and the Blues won't be doing that unless they can generate more offense.

Right now, unless something changes, they only way this team is going to go anywhere, is if they are allowing 1 or less goals per game...and that is asking an awful lot from your defense and goaltending. Plus it would probably wear out your team, as those kinds of games are usually more intense, require more hustle and mistake free hockey.

Free the offense.


I always figured this was the problem (You can't play both, you can't stop the puck and score with the same system, right? Right??), but then I look at the Stars team that Hitch led to the Cup and wonder what the difference between us and them was. Hitch's system looks the same and it would hinder scorers by making them play two-way D, which according to legend he was able to teach to Brett Hull. Is the learning curve behind that really steep or is it just that there's situations or plays that are more oriented to Offense than Defense, if that makes sense.

And please, don't give me a list of the players they had on that roster, I feel we're just as good, just as talented and if you believe Halak is still a serious factor (I'm willing to bet he's outright deadly if you get him into the swing of the playoffs, if we could keep him healthy enough to play) in our Goalie Trinity, so the difference has to be in the style or formation or whatever the system of D that Hitch teaches entails. I'm sorry if this reads weird, I've played pickup games and I understand the base concepts, so I find this intriguing and abit frustrating for our guys, but if it takes us the distance, why not?

In so many words, what's the difference?


Well, listing players they had on that team is certainly relevant. For starters, they had Modano and Hull up front...two superstars. Both of those guys were light years better at putting up points than anything we have right now.
This team has some excellent players, and I love the core of this team, but there are no offensive superstars. If we had a Modano or Hull-like player or two on this team, and if we had better goaltending over the first half of this season (thank God Elliott has returned to form), we'd be up near Chicago and Anaheim.

Dallas also had better scoring from the blueline then than we do now, and a better power play than we have now as well.

They had excellent goaltending. Belfour finished with a GAA under 2.00 that year...and Turek was backing him up, and he was widely considered to be a #1 guy on most other teams.

What's funny, is that the year the Stars won the cup, the Blues had a better PP and PK than the Stars, and we scored more goals that year (by one). But we allowed a half goal more per game...so that was the difference that year. We had bad goaltending...no save% over .900, we trotted out 5 goalies, including Jim Carey, over the course of the year because of injuries.

But it's not all about superstars, as that year, we had Hull, MacInnis, Pronger, Demitra...so we had our fair share of elite talent. But when you have the solid defensive system that Hitch plays, along with some superstars up front to take advantage of their chances so you don't have to win 1-0 and 2-1 games...that's a huge deal.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby DaDitka » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:57 am

Oaklandblue wrote:And please, don't give me a list of the players they had on that roster, I feel we're just as good, just as talented


First and foremost, I do feel the offensive talent on this team is greatly exaggerated. We have a ton of secondary weapons, but ZERO top end scorers. If you add one or two top end guys then each of your others drop down a notch. Stewie is a nice #3 scorer, Steen, Backes, McD ....great 4,5,6. But when each of them are miscast higher then those numbers the entire structure falters.

But even if we agreed that the talent was there, it's clear the execution is not. What the sisters last night, watch Pittsburgh, Chicago, or Montreal's forwards..see how they pass, see how they have a feel for each other. (We had what 6 or 7 off sides last night). We can't pass. We can't handle a pass. And we constantly have two guys standing on top of each other trying to occupy the same 'ice'

We are a dump in chase, toss the puck on goal and crash the net team. We throw a ton of shots on net, but many of them are not quality chances, and we don't possess real 'finishers'

The only time we seem to score 'skill' goals is on breakaways and we saw where all that cherry picking got us earlier this year.

Every night NHL Network shows all the goals from each given night. Watch that and you'll see whey we struggle to score at times.

Now.....all that said, we were in the top 10 scoring teams (on the season) in the league just a few weeks ago.

Hitch is starting to trust Swartz more and once he get's Tank more quality minutes I think it will help. In all actuality, I can't help but wonder if the Oshie injury might not be a blessing if it forces Hitch to loosen the reins on Tank a little. If he could earn more of Hitch's trust and then we also add Oshie back to the mix in the post season we'll be all the better for it.

Oh....and obviously 19 makes us a hell of a lot more dangerous offensively the way he can skate and carry the puck into the offensive zone considering most of our forwards are incapable of that.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:36 am

I agree w/ Ditka about not having top end scorers. The only problem is that those guys don't become available every day. My favorite part of the Blues coming into this season was the depth. Remember last season, we had scoring up and down the roster. When you've got 4 lines that can score, you don't need a top end scorer. The Blues played such a great team game last year that they had a glut of goal scorers in the 15-25 goal range, and they were one of the best teams in the league.

The problem with this year's team is that everyone has hit a goal scoring slump at the same time. I think what Ditka talks about is why--guys can't make clean passes to save their lives. We've got players chasing the puck half the game. The amount of offsides that happen due to one of our guys pulling up just short of the blue line and another rocketing past him has gone beyond annoying at this point. And the spacing in our offensive zone if awful. There's no room to execute a decent pass when a guy is standing right next to you.

This has been a constant so far for most of the season. These are things that can be fixed, for sure. We're getting a TON of shots but most of them aren't serious threats. If they can straighten some of these issues, this team could get on a roll.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cprice12 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:02 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:I agree w/ Ditka about not having top end scorers. The only problem is that those guys don't become available every day. My favorite part of the Blues coming into this season was the depth. Remember last season, we had scoring up and down the roster. When you've got 4 lines that can score, you don't need a top end scorer. The Blues played such a great team game last year that they had a glut of goal scorers in the 15-25 goal range, and they were one of the best teams in the league.

The problem with this year's team is that everyone has hit a goal scoring slump at the same time. I think what Ditka talks about is why--guys can't make clean passes to save their lives. We've got players chasing the puck half the game. The amount of offsides that happen due to one of our guys pulling up just short of the blue line and another rocketing past him has gone beyond annoying at this point. And the spacing in our offensive zone if awful. There's no room to execute a decent pass when a guy is standing right next to you.

This has been a constant so far for most of the season. These are things that can be fixed, for sure. We're getting a TON of shots but most of them aren't serious threats. If they can straighten some of these issues, this team could get on a roll.


If you watch them, they aren't taking many risks in the offensive zone. They don't pass to the slot, they throw it on net (low far post) from bad angles and hope for a rebound. They don't drive to the net, they will dump it into the corner or behind the net and try to cycle until something opens up. They won't try to finesse a pass through a couple defender's sticks to a guy open on the far side breaking to the net, they will throw it on net for a rebound. Those are all very low percentage plays and is a huge reason why they aren't scoring...and it happens every time down the ice. I'm all for trying those things, but not every time. It's very frustrating when a passing lane seems to be there for a good opportunity, but the pass isn't made because it's not the safest play and the puck might get turned over. Their system they play doesn't allow for taking unnecessary risks in any zone...and creative plays are deemed unnecessary. Hitchcock doesn't want the puck turned over high in the zone, for obvious reasons...so everything is safe and low percentage...and the trade off is few good chances. And when you have zero superstars up front that can bury those great chances that are few and far between, you end up with a ton of shots on net with only a goal or two scored.

I don't give two craps what system they play or how many goals they are scoring, as long as they are win. I've been a die hard fan for a long, long time and I just want to see a cup here...and I don't care how they get it. Cheat, borrow, steal, play boring hockey...I don't care. But this style of play makes me very nervous...and if all of their playoff games are going to be 1-0 or 2-1 games...I'm either going to die of a heart attack before they win the cup, or I'm going to be so frustrated and pissed at the conservative play in the offensive zone that ended up leading to them being outscored and losing in the 2nd round.

Defense does win cups...I just hope we have enough offense to actually win those low scoring games.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby theohall » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:21 pm

Back to what DaDitka said...

They need to work on puck and stick handling which they clearly don't based on what he has seen at practices.

Early this season - the Blues were "getting the bounces," making quality passes, getting pucks to guys in space - even with the saucer pass. Since the game when the Blues dominated Calgary, all of those things have mostly disappeared from the Blues game. What is the key factor in all of those things? Puck-handling. Work on it!

Aside: One thing that drives me nuts - why is it every time Stewart gets hit on the boards he lifts his stick off the ice? It's like he is not even trying to win the battle for the puck which usually needs a stick on the friggin' ice. I've watched Sobotka, Schwartz, Reaves, Cracknell, Backes, Perron, hell - most of the damn team - and when they take the hits while fighting for a puck, their stick isn't mashed up against their chest with the blade above their heads. Watch this guy. It's ridiculous. As good as Stewart can be in open ice, he is absolutely horrible doing things on the boards. In today's game, being able to work the boards properly is damn near necessary - especially on a Hitchcock coached team. Especially if you aren't scoring, getting in space, and making the plays at which you are supposed to be good. Any line he is one is hampered by his inability to work a corner or a wall when necessary, which impacts team scoring. It would almost be worth it if the Blues dumped the puck into the zone to have Stewart just skate to the front of the net or work to stay in open space, and let the other guys do all the work on the outside. It worked for Hull for quite awhile.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby 18tonytwist » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:20 pm

If I were honest, I would say part of my frustration with the lack of scoring is the fact that I got spoiled watching Brett Hull. We will never see that again...or anything close...by anyone.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby DaDitka » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:02 pm

18tonytwist wrote:If I were honest, I would say part of my frustration with the lack of scoring is the fact that I got spoiled watching Brett Hull. We will never see that again...or anything close...by anyone.



Nor will the league...it's a different game now. But more to the point, we don't have a Ovechkin, Stamkos, or Crosby.

We can play a team game and if we play flawless we can win more then our fair share of games, but you have to have that/those difference makers that can pick you up when you just not on your game or maybe be the deciding factor in a 1 to 1 game that nets you two without giving up that extra point to your opponent.

I know we find it 'convenient' to blame Hitch's system, but while we excuse Backes' lack of production, in 99 on Hitch's Cup team his #1 center had 81 points in 77 games.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby theohall » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:21 pm

DaDitka wrote:
18tonytwist wrote:If I were honest, I would say part of my frustration with the lack of scoring is the fact that I got spoiled watching Brett Hull. We will never see that again...or anything close...by anyone.



Nor will the league...it's a different game now. But more to the point, we don't have a Ovechkin, Stamkos, or Crosby.

We can play a team game and if we play flawless we can win more then our fair share of games, but you have to have that/those difference makers that can pick you up when you just not on your game or maybe be the deciding factor in a 1 to 1 game that nets you two without giving up that extra point to your opponent.

I know we find it 'convenient' to blame Hitch's system, but while we excuse Backes' lack of production, in 99 on Hitch's Cup team his #1 center had 81 points in 77 games.


Back then Hitchcock punished his team for bad play with bag skates, puck drills, and that kind of thing. Hitch stopped doing that to be more player friendly. IMO, he still needs to punish the team sometimes, instead of being soft by "growing with the game" as it is supposedly called.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby 18tonytwist » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:06 am

Unfortunately, the Blues would have to open the checkbook to get those kind of players, and we all know that won't happen.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cprice12 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:42 am

DaDitka wrote:
18tonytwist wrote:If I were honest, I would say part of my frustration with the lack of scoring is the fact that I got spoiled watching Brett Hull. We will never see that again...or anything close...by anyone.



Nor will the league...it's a different game now. But more to the point, we don't have a Ovechkin, Stamkos, or Crosby.

We can play a team game and if we play flawless we can win more then our fair share of games, but you have to have that/those difference makers that can pick you up when you just not on your game or maybe be the deciding factor in a 1 to 1 game that nets you two without giving up that extra point to your opponent.

I know we find it 'convenient' to blame Hitch's system, but while we excuse Backes' lack of production, in 99 on Hitch's Cup team his #1 center had 81 points in 77 games.


So you're comparing Backes to Modano "in-his-prime"?
To expect him to put up typical 1st line center numbers isn't fair to Backes since he isn't a typical 1st line center. He's not a playmaker. The most assists he's ever had in a season is 31. Modano's best assist year was 60...twice as much as Backes' best year.
We just don't have a typical first line center. But with that said, Backes should still be putting up slightly better numbers based on his chances this season and his past production. I think that's obvious.

But overall it's pretty simple, they are still playing Hitch's conservative defensive system and that directly effects the offensive production overall. I'm not saying this team would be scoring like the Hawks if they were a freewheeling team, but they have the raw talent to score more. The conservative-defensive style just doesn't generate that many high quality scoring chances. When you're so concerned about not turning the puck over in the neutral zone or high in the offensive zone, you play it ultra conservative and dump the puck and play a cycling/grind it out down low game.

And I'm not saying Hitch's system is bad. It's excellent, and it works, and as long as they win I don't care how they play. But the main difference between this team and the Stars cup team, is that we just don't have that elite level of skill up front, and I feel that is going to cost us dearly at some point...but I hope I'm wrong there and we can generate enough offense to win 4 games in each playoff round.

Our top 2 goal scorers are Berglund and Stewart. That's compared to Modano and Hull on the '99 Dallas team.
Big difference there.

So, to me, it's a combination of not having the elite talent up front AND playing a conservative style. But, one could also argue that they only play the ultra-conservative style because they don't have the elite talent...but I can't see Hitch turning the forwards loose and telling them they can run and gun. Hell, he turned Hull into a defense-first guy. I just feel this team is more talented offensively than the numbers they are putting up show.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby theohall » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:43 am

At the start of this season, this team was capable of scoring. They were "getting the bounces." So the idea they need different players is not necessarily true. Heck, everyone wanted to dump Elliott, yet he has been great down the stretch.

Fix the puck handling and the scoring will follow.

Even players like Crosby constantly work on puck handling. NBC has shoved enough videos of him doing this down our throats the past few years.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby DaDitka » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:45 am

cprice12 wrote:
So you're comparing Backes to Modano "in-his-prime"?
To expect him to put up typical 1st line center numbers isn't fair to Backes since he isn't a typical 1st line center. He's not a playmaker.


Actually...that was exactly my point. Everyone is blaming the system, but the fact is that it's just as much a reflection of the particular skill sets of the players.

There is no doubt that we're "defense first", but there is also no doubt that we don't have (IMO) any first line scoring talent on this roster.

I agree that they are under achieving offensively, but not by as much as many seem to think. This team needs more offensive talent, and perhaps we will find that in some of the young kids.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cprice12 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:29 am

theohall wrote:At the start of this season, this team was capable of scoring. They were "getting the bounces." So the idea they need different players is not necessarily true. Heck, everyone wanted to dump Elliott, yet he has been great down the stretch.

Fix the puck handling and the scoring will follow.

Even players like Crosby constantly work on puck handling. NBC has shoved enough videos of him doing this down our throats the past few years.


And at the start of the season, the players were accused of not buying into the system...but we were winning, so nobody cared. Which kind of proves my point that the system is holding the offense back some.

Personally, I didn't want to dump Elliott. He was playing bad, but it was a small sample size compared to how he played all last season. The problem is that this is a half season and everything is x2, so his 7 or 8 game bad stretch was like a 14 or 16 bad stretch in a full season. So it was a handful of poor games and that was it, bring in Allen. I had said that you can't trade or get rid of Elliott based on 7 or 8 games, after the season he had last year. That would be the ultimate knee jerk reaction. A lot of people wanted Allen to be the #1, and that was crazy. He played well and got better as he played more, but come on...he is a rookie who had only played in a few games. He is a viable commodity now and I'm looking forward to his career a little more than I was before...but he needs a lot more experience before we go giving him the #1 goalie label on a cup contending team.

I'm not sure fixing any perceived puckhandling issues is the root of the problem.
If you want more offense, then the offense needs to be created by applying a different gameplan in the offensive zone. They simply don't take the chances that the higher scoring teams in the league do. It's always the safe play.
If you want to talk about specific guys who need to work on puckhandling, I'm going to call out Petro. He has "brewer-like" moments seemingly every game. I don't know what the hell happened to him...but he is nothing close to what he was last year.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:55 am

I don't know hockey as well as some of you, so maybe I'm off base here. But, it seems that we play the system we should play with a lead late in the game for the entire game. I don't think we should do a 180 or anything, but I don't think it would hurt to open up more when we don't have a lead. Once we have it, then go to our game where we don't take chances.

EDIT: And I don't mean go into lockdown mode when we have a 1-0 first period lead. I mean a little later in the game.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby DaDitka » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:00 am

cprice12 wrote:If you want to talk about specific guys who need to work on puckhandling, I'm going to call out Petro. He has "brewer-like" moments seemingly every game. I don't know what the hell happened to him...but he is nothing close to what he was last year.


Agreed 1000%.

I would also add that Andy Mac can not 'accept' a pass, David Perron can not make a pass (yes, I've actually seen him try), and David Backes can not handle a puck (pass, accept a pass, or shoot).

Aside from these in particular I agree that it comes down to a plan. I believe much of our 'puck problems' come from not knowing what each-other are doing, you may pass to where you think a guy is going, you may not 'accept' a pass well because you weren't expecting it, or maybe a pass is 'too hard' because you'r closer to the 'passer' then you should be or then he expected you to be.

But I don't think it has to be a one or the other proposition as it was early in the year. Early, everyone was cherry-picking and not worrying about their responsibilities in their own end. Why can't we have a 'plan' in both ends of the ice? Why can't we play defensive hockey, but still have a plan in the offensive end. Once we cross the opponents blue line, none of our guys look like they've ever played or even practiced together.
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Re: The lack of scoring is pathetic

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:14 am

DaDitka wrote:
cprice12 wrote:If you want to talk about specific guys who need to work on puckhandling, I'm going to call out Petro. He has "brewer-like" moments seemingly every game. I don't know what the hell happened to him...but he is nothing close to what he was last year.


Agreed 1000%.

I would also add that Andy Mac can not 'accept' a pass, David Perron can not make a pass (yes, I've actually seen him try), and David Backes can not handle a puck (pass, accept a pass, or shoot).

Aside from these in particular I agree that it comes down to a plan. I believe much of our 'puck problems' come from not knowing what each-other are doing, you may pass to where you think a guy is going, you may not 'accept' a pass well because you weren't expecting it, or maybe a pass is 'too hard' because you'r closer to the 'passer' then you should be or then he expected you to be.

But I don't think it has to be a one or the other proposition as it was early in the year. Early, everyone was cherry-picking and not worrying about their responsibilities in their own end. Why can't we have a 'plan' in both ends of the ice? Why can't we play defensive hockey, but still have a plan in the offensive end. Once we cross the opponents blue line, none of our guys look like they've ever played or even practiced together.


I think a lot of them are confused about what to do too. Hitch says the worst place to turn the puck over is at the offensive blue line because it creates an odd man rush so often. So, I think a lot of them are afraid of making a mistake which leads to overly cautious hockey and doesn't promote creating chances.
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